Operation Apollyon v1.6b: Endless Fantasy (02/05/21)

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Re: Operation Apollyon v1.5b: Pretty Bomb Ahead (23/04/20)

Postby NullWire » Fri May 08, 2020 5:08 pm

Is there a chance to add some really broken weapons like a KS-23M or ASH-12?
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Re: Operation Apollyon v1.5c: Electric Feel (23/04/20)

Postby LossForWords » Fri May 08, 2020 6:49 pm

NullWire wrote:Is there a chance to add some really broken weapons like a KS-23M or ASH-12?

the ash-12 and the ks23 would be redundant with the jackhammer and the heiap m60, and i feel the arsenal is pretty well rounded as is.
Spoiler:
Last edited by LossForWords on Fri May 08, 2020 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Operation Apollyon v1.5c: Electric Feel (08/05/20)

Postby LossForWords » Fri May 08, 2020 6:56 pm

oh, also, here's a minor update.
new gun: taser baton - replaces the fists, always hurts enemies when you hit'em. it's fun.
edit: coldfix. boosted slightly the baton's damage, fixed freezethrower kick melee weirdness.
grab nao
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Re: Operation Apollyon v1.5c: Electric Feel (08/05/20)

Postby Spaceman333 » Wed May 13, 2020 5:26 am

Loving this mod. Similar difficulty to vanilla, but in a different style and structure.

Image

The OP doesn't fully describe what the mod has to offer, so for those who are unsure if they should get it, I'll say its worth it.

The mod has these items:
1. Taser Baton / Tactical Projectile Reflector Axe
2. Silenced sniping pistol / 6-Shot Heavy Revolver
3. SPAS-12 Semi-auto Shotgun / Triple Barrel Shotgun (with alt-fire)
4. Silenced SMG / Assault Rifle
5. Rocket Launcher (with alt 4-shot homing burst) / Milkor 6-shot Grenade Gun
6. Cryo-Blaster / Flamethrower

Also new ammo pickup sprites and new sleek, yet simple interface. Essentially the vanilla plasmagun and BFG has been replaced with a 4 different special heavy weapons (slot 5 & 6), each with their pros and cons, while the rest of the arsenal is competent enough to hold well on their own.

Been playing a large 32map megawad with it and I'm at lvl 17 so far in it using this mod along side a monster randomizer + a myriad of addons (UAC survival pack and Mikk-'s critical hits goes really well with this!). Been having a blast - its good. Plays smooth, feels satisfying and is varied. :thumb:

Apparently there is also meant to be a railgun, but I haven't found it yet. :-?


Only nitpicks are:
  • SPAS could use a bit more damage or be faster between shots. Triple shotgun just is so much versatile that it leaves the SPAS useless.
  • Heavy revolver would feel better with even more damage due to how little ammo it has. I only use it to feel cool, but its generally outclassed by other weapons.
  • Missile launcher could either use more damage, more ammo or bigger damage radius. The grenade gun just outshines it.
  • HUD does not support showing inventory items, so when using addons that give me inventory stuff, I have no idea how many I have left of something.
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Re: Operation Apollyon v1.5c: Electric Feel (08/05/20)

Postby LossForWords » Wed May 13, 2020 1:04 pm

thanks for the criticism, i'll take those in consideration. (especially the HUD, revolver and missile launcher)
and the bigger guns (railgun/jackhammer) spawn in blursphere slots, i'll fiddle with the spawners and see if i can make the blursphere-spawned guns show up more often.
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Re: Operation Apollyon v1.5c: Electric Feel (08/05/20)

Postby Spaceman333 » Wed May 13, 2020 3:10 pm

LossForWords wrote:thanks for the criticism, i'll take those in consideration. (especially the HUD, revolver and missile launcher)
and the bigger guns (railgun/jackhammer) spawn in blursphere slots, i'll fiddle with the spawners and see if i can make the blursphere-spawned guns show up more often.


Ahh thats what the issue was!

I thought the usual powerups were gonna be the untouched vanilla ones, so I loaded a minor mod that replaces them all with upgraded versions (Uber Artifacts minimod). I guess I can safely IDFA myself in my current playthough to get those bigger guns. I'm now in map22 (several hours of more play) and made it so far with only slot 1-6 weapons.

I really thought that 1-thru-6 was the full arsenal - considering how very balanced it felt overall. :o
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Re: Operation Apollyon v1.5c: Electric Feel (08/05/20)

Postby LossForWords » Wed May 13, 2020 3:30 pm

the powerup replacements are just reskins of the default powerups, you're not missing out on much.
let me know what you thought of the bfg-tier guns when you get them!
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Re: Operation Apollyon v1.5c: Electric Feel (08/05/20)

Postby Spaceman333 » Wed May 13, 2020 3:55 pm

LossForWords wrote:the powerup replacements are just reskins of the default powerups, you're not missing out on much.
let me know what you thought of the bfg-tier guns when you get them!


Will do so tomorrow, I'll be sure to get in some extended play before commenting to get a good feel for them.

That said, why don't they spawn in the BFG drops? I'm currently playing a megawad which I'm unfamiliar with, so I don't actually know if I ran accross a BFG spawner or not. If I were to guess, does the grenade launcher spawn from the vanilla rocketlauncher spawner, while the macross missile spawns in the BFG spawner? And the flamer/cryo spawn from the plasma gun?

I felt that the slot 5 and slot 6 weapons were all on equal terms - just different for their own respective situations, so it would make sense for Milkor and Macross to come from vanilla rocketlauncher spawns, while the cryo and flamer from plasma - and finally - the heavy mega guns spawning from BFG.

Otherwise I get the feeling like I'm getting a BFG tier weapon way more early than usually if its dropped by the blursphere.
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Re: Operation Apollyon v1.5c: Electric Feel (08/05/20)

Postby LossForWords » Wed May 13, 2020 5:10 pm

oh, the bfg-tier guns spawn in the bfg spot, the milkor and macross spawn in the rl spot, and the cryo and flamer on the plasma rifle spot. the jackhammer and railgun were meant to be "secret" weapons that spawn sometimes in the blursphere spot.
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Re: Operation Apollyon v1.5c: Electric Feel (08/05/20)

Postby Spaceman333 » Fri May 15, 2020 12:19 pm

Ok played some more - now with *all* the guns - and noticed that the mapset still hasn't given me a BFG, it only teased one that was unobtainable (the M60), so atleast that confirms the mapset I was on simply didn't give me a BFG yet.

Image

But yeah, apparently thats 4 entire guns that I didn't know of:
  • Railcannon - piercing semi auto rifle with a scope function for sniping
  • M60 - a powerful-ish, yet inaccurate short-midrange machinegun
  • Jackhammer - basically a short range auto flak cannon with bouncy pellets
  • Meltphase - an absurdly powerful cluster nuke cannon, can blow self up easily if not careful

I like each one of them, but I think they're less tight with the rest of the arsenal.

The railcannon and M60 share the same ammo, but the railcannon in terms of usability is just vastly superior, that using any of the ammo on the M60 feels wasteful.
M60's erratic spread makes it most useful in close range, but that role is already well done by the flamethrower. M60's total ammo count is very low too. Combined with the long reload, low ammo, fastly used up magazine and poor accuracy, I didn't feel like using the M60 at all.
Jackhammer was interesting in clearing out rooms with the bouncy shots, thought its overall low damage made it more suited to lesser enemies than anything tougher than a hellknight. Its unique rare ammo also made it questionable if I should save it for a better moment or use it now.
Meltphase - the glorious 3 triple shot cluster nuke blaster - perfection. Wouldn't change a thing. On full ammo, it can do 4 shots and sacrifices my flamer's ammo in the process (which is a very good weapon in itself), so it feels fair and gives me a real decision what I should do. Likewise using the flamer means I sacrifice the ability to fire the meltphase.

So in general, I think 3 out 4 weapons would benefit from a rework. If I were making the mod I'd do these changes:
Railcannon - turn it into a Mercury Bow - make it use Cryo ammo, same damage, pierce and other stats, but also freezes enemies. Make the Cryo Blaster and Mercury Railgun use slot 6, acquired via plasma gun. Both guns are best for long range attacks.
Jackhammer - Make it use incendiary ammo, so wherever the bouncy shots stop, they'll leave a temporary burning fire (damages enemies only). Also move it to slot 7 and also move the flamethrower to slot 7 too along with it. This way there is a more focused option (flamer) and a more spread out option (jackhammer) to clear areas in close range. Make both of these also be acquired via plasma gun.
Meltphase - stays at slot 8 as is. Acquired via BFG.
M60 - imo needs total rework or even replacement. So BFG slot has one good option already; a dangerous cluster nuke for long range, large area bombardment. Its risky to use, so its counterpart could be something something safer and also rapid fire. The coolest option would be a Smartgun with explosive rounds with high ammo capacity / max ammo (but using rare special ammo). If you've played Guncaster with the official addon, it has a gun called Sandman and it comes with an upgrade that makes it autoaim within a certain area on the screen.
Alternatively, maybe the M60 could be replaced with a true Macross Micro missle machinegun, sending small homing rockets at a high rate of fire like a bee swarm. Also it would be moved to slot 8 along side the Meltphase.

Dunno, those are just my ideas. Maybe you have an idea how to make it. Maybe the M60 could be a different tactical superweapon than those that complement the Meltphace somehow.
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Re: Operation Apollyon v1.5c: Electric Feel (08/05/20)

Postby Ferretmanjcdenton » Fri May 15, 2020 1:23 pm

Amazing ...you made one of the BEST axes in any doom mod ever ...
Love this mechanics ...
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Re: Operation Apollyon v1.5c: Electric Feel (08/05/20)

Postby Ferretmanjcdenton » Fri May 15, 2020 1:25 pm

Hey there ...I made a short video of your amazing mod


https://youtu.be/HFxUnmPwzSI
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Re: Operation Apollyon v1.5c: Electric Feel (08/05/20)

Postby LossForWords » Sun May 17, 2020 10:26 pm

Spaceman333 wrote:M60 - imo needs total rework or even replacement. So BFG slot has one good option already; a dangerous cluster nuke for long range, large area bombardment. Its risky to use, so its counterpart could be something something safer and also rapid fire. The coolest option would be a Smartgun with explosive rounds with high ammo capacity / max ammo (but using rare special ammo).

that sounds better. tho i had a minigun in mind.
since the meltphace is the big room-clearing gun, maybe the explosive machinegun should be more geared towards melting stronger enemies.
maybe a mid-range minigun with explosive rounds, higher ammo cap and a faster firerate.
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Re: Operation Apollyon v1.5c: Electric Feel (08/05/20)

Postby Spaceman333 » Mon May 18, 2020 8:36 am

LossForWords wrote:
Spaceman333 wrote:M60 - imo needs total rework or even replacement. So BFG slot has one good option already; a dangerous cluster nuke for long range, large area bombardment. Its risky to use, so its counterpart could be something something safer and also rapid fire. The coolest option would be a Smartgun with explosive rounds with high ammo capacity / max ammo (but using rare special ammo).

that sounds better. tho i had a minigun in mind.
since the meltphace is the big room-clearing gun, maybe the explosive machinegun should be more geared towards melting stronger enemies.
maybe a mid-range minigun with explosive rounds, higher ammo cap and a faster firerate.

I'd be cool with that.
Often mapsets give a BFG, then immediately put me in a situation where I need to fight a group of overwhelming enemies in tight spaces - prompting me use the BFG right away. If its that minigun with explosive rounds, it'd work wonderfully. If the meltphase, then I'd need to fall back on the flamer or cryogun. This mod has a slightly unique balance and gameplay style of its own, so it works out fine.

While the meltphase can instakill bosses, the minigun would provide controlled firepower to take out individuals and small groups more safer.

Would the minigun's explosive rounds still cause self-damage to the player?
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Re: Operation Apollyon v1.5c: Electric Feel (08/05/20)

Postby LossForWords » Mon May 18, 2020 12:53 pm

Spaceman333 wrote:Would the minigun's explosive rounds still cause self-damage to the player?

no, that would be too annoying imo.
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