Nobody Told Me About id v0.4.9 - A Build Engine-styled mod

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Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.6 - Build Engine-styled mod

Postby Sgt. Ham » Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:57 pm

After some brainstorming, I came up with a (kinda) complete list of possible weapon alt-fires. This is just purely for your consideration if you have anything else in mind.

Fist: A kick. More endlag but it pushes enemies back further than with the fist.

Chainsaw: Swings the Chainsaw like in Project Brutality. Unlike PB, you swing it like Lo Wang's sword from Shadow Warrior. I feel like this attack should do the chainsaw death of the zombies; primary can just straight up gib them though.

Pistol: Reload is fine as it is for its alt-fire.

Shotgun/Supershotgun:
Spoiler:


Chaingun: What I said before about first revving up and then immediately firing at a faster rate than primary--Similar to Duke 3D's Ripper Chaingun.

Rocket Launcher: Plays a charge up animation and then firing them as a MIRV grenade. When it hits an enemy, it will explode and keep bouncing. When it stops bouncing, all unexploded rockets will be launched out in random directions as grenades. Somewhat based off of the Napalm Launcher's alt-fire from Blood.

Plasma Rifle: Plays another charge up animation and then firing a shot similar to Shadow Warrior's Railgun.

BFG-9000: A 5 second countdown will play until using 200 Cell Ammo to fire a BFG Nuke shot. All splash damage, no weird hitscan tracers. And since the BFG in vanilla has no self-damage, you can be in its epicenter and not take any damage unlike Shadow Warrior's nuke!

Keep up the mod work! It's coming together really nice!
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Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.6 - Build Engine-styled mod

Postby Gamerwarrior117 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:12 pm

nevermind i stick with gzdoom, works better.

is there ico file for this wad?
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Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.6 - Build Engine-styled mod

Postby Matt » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:59 am

This works surprisingly well with Freedoom's music and sounds and theme.

Except... most of the arachnotrons in Freedoom Map07 are stuck in the geometry. Are these guys' hitboxes a lot bigger?


I'm really not a fan of the new chaingun wind-up time. It means there's no more fast-firing, low-DPS trash monster weapon to deal with individual zombies that catch you around a corner. (Freedoom does this with basic zombiemen a lot more than Doom does) I'm taking a lot of hits either just waiting for the chaingun to rev up, or trying to line up multiple guys with the shotguns, or spending extra time dancing around revving up the chaingun. If the pistol could fire just a little bit faster (maybe reload slower to make up for it if need be, though personally I think an unmitigated improvement is fine too) that could help a lot - it would also make things more consistent with those bursts the zombies fire.

Though the chaingun itself could stand to have a much higher ROF just to make the windup feel more convincing...


The gib taunt is perfect.
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Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.6 - Build Engine-styled mod

Postby Captain J » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:21 am

Actually, you can deactivate the chaingun windup option by turning it into Classic. Although wind down animation still exists and you can't do a thing while it's playing.
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Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.6 - Build Engine-styled mod

Postby Mirthy » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:12 am

ive been playing this a lot recently since i love the build games (especially blood) and im having a blast. though one thing i have noticed is that the ai seems way more reactive, and while that does work for hitscanners as build engine hitscanners are known for being troublesome, especially in games like blood. however, it seems a little bit unbalanced due to blood having a way to dodge hitscan attacks through crouching while this mod packs it in with everything else vanilla. this reactiveness also affects certain enemies like the lost soul pretty badly and makes them even more annoying that usual. there are 2 ways you can fix this imo either:

a) add a similar feature to blood where hitscanners have less of a chance to hit you or

b) reduce the reactiveness of the enemies

one thing i also think would be a cool addition is like a kick move from duke 3d to help against lost souls. so far youve done a great job and i look forward to seeing what this project does next
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Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.6 - Build Engine-styled mod

Postby CantSleep » Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:50 am

Craneo wrote:another bug I've just experienced is in the mapset Honte Remastered, some monsters seem to get stuck, do the monsters have the same height and radius as the original Doom ones?

Radius and heights are untouched. The issue is mainly in the map itself, since it most possibly has enemies placed into the walls, assuming they have a large amount value of Speed to move out of them. You can encounter this in E1M1 too. I've tried adding +FIXMAPTHINGPOS to make this issue less frequent.

Takuat wrote:Just to add to the recommended MapSets, RoastBeefo is also working on an NTMAi/Build-inspired Doom 2 remake
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=67485

Added. RoastBeefo's efforts shall not go unnoticed!

Sgt. Ham wrote:Alt-fire ideas

Most of these are good ideas. Noted.

Gamerwarrior117 wrote:nevermind i stick with gzdoom, works better.

is there ico file for this wad?

None. It's not really possible to assign a file icon to things that aren't an executable (Exectuables are EXE, BAT, shortcuts...)

Matt wrote:most of the arachnotrons in Freedoom Map07 are stuck in the geometry. Are these guys' hitboxes a lot bigger?

Read my first reply of this post, you'll get the idea off this problem.

I'm really not a fan of the new chaingun wind-up time. It means there's no more fast-firing, low-DPS trash monster weapon to deal with individual zombies that catch you around a corner. (Freedoom does this with basic zombiemen a lot more than Doom does) I'm taking a lot of hits either just waiting for the chaingun to rev up, or trying to line up multiple guys with the shotguns, or spending extra time dancing around revving up the chaingun. If the pistol could fire just a little bit faster (maybe reload slower to make up for it if need be, though personally I think an unmitigated improvement is fine too) that could help a lot - it would also make things more consistent with those bursts the zombies fire.

Don't worry; next update will completely get rid of the wind-up. Like Captain J said you can turn it off through NTMAI Options. I'll try to add a quick refiring state as well when the chaingun winds down.

The gib taunt is perfect.

Glad you liked it, I added it in as a last minute feature. :lol:

Mirthy wrote:ive been playing this a lot recently since i love the build games (especially blood) and im having a blast. though one thing i have noticed is that the ai seems way more reactive, and while that does work for hitscanners as build engine hitscanners are known for being troublesome, especially in games like blood. however, it seems a little bit unbalanced due to blood having a way to dodge hitscan attacks through crouching while this mod packs it in with everything else vanilla. this reactiveness also affects certain enemies like the lost soul pretty badly and makes them even more annoying that usual. there are 2 ways you can fix this imo either:

a) add a similar feature to blood where hitscanners have less of a chance to hit you or

b) reduce the reactiveness of the enemies

one thing i also think would be a cool addition is like a kick move from duke 3d to help against lost souls. so far youve done a great job and i look forward to seeing what this project does next

Remember to turn off "Pissed zombies" from NTMAI Options for a slightly smaller attack chance. The main reason behind the high attack rate is because of how often A_Chase gets called during walking animations. This and the rest of the issues are noted.

It seems there are alot of mighty foot suggestions, huh? I'll consider it. Next update will mostly have optimizations, balance changes and maybe toggleable voxels. Stay tuned for next weekend!
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Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.6 - Build Engine-styled mod

Postby Jarewill » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:51 am

I really like how it's looking so far, though I did find some issues while playing:

- The berserk pack seems to stop at 1% and can be used again to replenish the player's health instead of being removed completely from the inventory.

- And the gib taunt often gets cut out by other sound effects, so I rarely hear it in it's full glory.

- The pistol altfire still alerts enemies, it could be fixed by giving the pistol +WEAPON.NOALERT flag and using A_AlertMonsters function in the fire to alert enemies normally.

- The BFG recoil is always the same, not taking the player's pitch into consideration. So if the player is looking down, they will still be propelled backwards when firing.
It could be fixed by simply multiplying the recoil with cos(pitch). For example A_Recoil((2*cos(pitch)))

Also could the berserk pack be toggleable as an optional CVar?
With it on, the berserk pack would no longer heal, but could be toggled on and off. The speed boost is just too much at times, which makes certain situations hard.
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Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.6 - Build Engine-styled mod

Postby Takuat » Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:01 pm

Quick question, why did you choose to make DoomGuy blue/purple instead of green? Just curious
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Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.6 - Build Engine-styled mod

Postby Dwailing » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:40 pm

I think a good compromise for the chaingun (playing into the suggested alt-fire above) is to have the primary fire be a slower, instantaneous automatic fire with no wind-down and the secondary fire be a rapid, wind-up automatic fire with a wind-down afterwards. Essentially take the two current options for primary fire and make them the two fire modes with the classic style being slower than it is currently and the rev style being a bit faster.

Edit: For the shotguns I think maybe a slug shot for the regular shotgun which is a projectile rather than hitscan but has high accuracy, while the super shotty could maybe have a dragon's breath shell attack?
Last edited by Dwailing on Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.6 - Build Engine-styled mod

Postby Enjay » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:44 pm

That's a fairly standard way in which people have approached miniguns and alt-fires before. I guess the question in the context of this mod is does it feel build-like?
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Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.6 - Build Engine-styled mod

Postby Dwailing » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:48 pm

Enjay wrote:That's a fairly standard way in which people have approached miniguns and alt-fires before. I guess the question in the context of this mod is does it feel build-like?


Actually, that gives me an idea. Instead of what I suggested, how about just whipping out a second chaingun and dual wielding? That seems pretty Build-like to me. ^^

Edit: It would double ammo consumption and have to reduce accuracy but it seems fitting somehow.
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Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.6 - Build Engine-styled mod

Postby Dwailing » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:56 pm

How about a grenade slug for the regular shotty? It would be kind of like Ion Fury's shotgun which can switch between fire modes.
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Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.6 - Build Engine-styled mod

Postby Jarewill » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:58 pm

Enjay wrote:does it feel build-like?

Doesn't the Tommy gun in Blood do a similar thing though?
If I recall correctly, it fires faster, but with more spread as an altfire.

Or am I just completely wrong again?
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Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.6 - Build Engine-styled mod

Postby Enjay » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:11 pm

Shows how much I know about Blood. I didn't even know that was a thing. :lol:

Having just tested it, the RoF seems about the same as the primary fire, but a single stab of the alt-fire button does a "room spray" that uses 14 bullets as the gun is swept left and right covering a wide-ish arc.

Personally, I prefer your dual wield idea and it seems very build-ish to me.
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Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.6 - Build Engine-styled mod

Postby Ac!d » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:10 am

About the weapons / powerups of Blood :
  • A single / double fire for the supershotgun would be obvious for me.
  • A charge up like the TeslaCannon.
  • The akimbo powerup (I'm working on it).

About the weapons of Shadow Warrior :
  • Some specials items for the RocketLauncher (heat-seeking rockets and nuclear missile).
  • A smoke bomb (Make the player "insivible" and scare monters).

These are my ideas for the next updates of this mod.

:)
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