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Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.8 - Build Engine-styled mod

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:00 pm
by Whoah
skdursh wrote:Too many updatesss. Get a github. It's so much better for ongoing projects where you're going to be constantly updating things.

He's only updated it 2 times in the past week, my dude

Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.8 - Build Engine-styled mod

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:47 pm
by Bofubutt
This is really cool! I just got off a Duke Nukem 3D kick, so this was pretty nostalgic for me.

A bug I've noticed and a recommendation:

[*]Having a berserk pack active when you finish a level appears to give you permanent berserk mode. I was using doom2.wad and ended Map31 with berserk active (about 50% left, I'd say), and it was still active in Map32. I had berserk mode up the entirety of it and thought maybe it was because I'd picked up the berserk pack at the start of it, but then I realize I'd never activated it. By the time I got to the start of Map16, I still had berserk. There was no percentage.
[*]The plasma rifle still feels a little off, like maybe it needs to be angled slightly closer to the center to match the projectiles (compare its angle to the shotgun or the BFG).

Overall, this is pretty cool! I'd like to see people make some addons that emulate Build's interactivity as well.

Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.8 - Build Engine-styled mod

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:49 am
by skdursh
Whoah wrote:
skdursh wrote:Too many updatesss. Get a github. It's so much better for ongoing projects where you're going to be constantly updating things.

He's only updated it 2 times in the past week, my dude


5 times in slightly over a week. 0.1.6, 0.1.7, 0.1.7 hotfix, 0.1.8 and 0.1.8 hotfix. In my opinion any ongoing project that intends to push public releases more than once a month should be using a git.

Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.8 - Build Engine-styled mod

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:37 am
by Captain J
Granted, it's quite frequent and sounds like not a big deal. But it's informative nevertheless and at least the author is putting more effort into it and would listen to one's feedback. If that's really inconvenient, why not just ignore?

Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.8 - Build Engine-styled mod

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:08 am
by CantSleep
Thanks again all for feedback.

hornbuckle0wns wrote:rockets aren't the most common things in some mapsets. I understand you might wanna stay more vanilla, but it would be great if you in one way or another found a way to give the user more explosives, like put it as one of the alt fires, or maybe make a whole new weapon/item.


I got some ideas, stay tuned.

kadkad14 wrote:What do you think about balancing?
I am talking about polishing enemy damage/health/unique behavior, weapon usefulness, so every gun has its role etc.
If you manage to make original campaigns challenging but not frustrating with this, it would be pure gold.

Original D3D have things like ambient sounds, environmental sound/color changing.
Some enemies are able to jump, fly, use alt attacks etc.
Do you plan to add something like this?

There is a mod called Project Babel. It has some features I mentioned. Its simple but very effective.
It would be interesting to hear your opinion on it (if you have enough time).


Polishing the balance is a pretty hard thing to do, I think the current balancing seems good enough although it feels a bit like it's Blood '97's kind of difficult.

Imps and Demons already have real jumping, you can experience this alot when there are pits in front of them.

Demons, Hell Knights and Barons of Hell have leaping attack too, they will cause some damage if you circle-strafe too close to them (Demon's leaps are harmless as long as you aren't doing splash damage).

Keep in mind all of this jumping and leaping can be disabled through NTMAI Options if you don't like that kinda stuff.

Ambient sounds are not in my scope atm, that's the mapper's job to include them. However I suggest checking out Kinsie's fancyworld. While it's not entirely Build-styled, that mod might do the job for you.

I have heard of Project Babel, however it's a lot more complicated under the hood (you can make weak enemies flee from fear under certain conditions; how cool is that?).

iWonder wrote:The movement, the explosions and the vibe is just spot on, I want this to be famous, no more Brutal Doom, this is the new threshold of modding, this is the king in my book! So much potential and I really hope you keep this beauty alive and regularly updated cause you deserve a spot alongside Pillowblaster, Nash, Captain J etc.... So many little things and touches in this masterpiece that makes it well... a masterpiece

I'm aware this mod is still an early WIP and giving such high praise may backfire but I don't care, you made this dude happy

To stop sucking your dick I will provide some feedback:

1-ricochet sounds - initially it was a nice touch but it becomes annoying after a while, like you can't hear monster pain sounds from so much PIEW, PUIW,PIEUW and my suggestion is to simply make it toggleable to make both sides happy

2-Barrels do look a little weird but it's not that big of a deal

3-This is something totally up to you but have you thought of implementing some iconic weaponry from Build Engine games? The best thing I liked about Blood is chucking sticks of dynamite at baddies and watching shit fly all over the place, Duke's shotgun is the best pump-action there is, and the Nuke from SW is just another level of badassery. Making it toggleable aswell cause why not.

4. Some kind of a progression system? PB and the like have increased enemy roster which makes it more and more fun to play every old and new megawad out there

5. Retarded but a suggestion nevertheless: xp system? like you kill demons and you get money or xp and you use it to purchase items, powerups or even weapon upgrades? This one shits on vanilla but I think if balanced right, could make it even better than it is.

You sir have an Adoring Fan now, whether you like it or not!


Woah! Thanks a lot for your feedback. Honestly I don't think I deserve this much praise, the other people you mention make a lot more efforts :)

1. Noted.

2. You can turn off voxels through the settings. Noted

3. Doom's weaponry is simple yet they're designed very nicely all have their uses :) I am planning to add some weapon-related things don't worry.

4 and 5: Sorry, it's not really the scope of this mod, especially 5. 4 could be more of a mapper thing. For something like progression I recommend checking Ashes 2063 which is a TC heavily influenced under 90s fps games. Sure it doesn't have xp but you get a cash system and sometimes some trading!

Enjay wrote:Full disclosure: I'm not a fan of voxel models and think that they look worse than both sprites and mesh models - and I feel that they look particularly bad with curved shapes. They just look like they are crudely assembled with kids wooden play bricks to me.

I've tried to ignore my natural prejudice there, so I'm only commenting on what the liquid inside looks like. In the sprite version, the liquid is clearly meant to be moving and bubbling and in most mesh models, some attempt has been made to make the surface of the liquid look like the nukage pools that are found around the maps. The voxel ones, however, are just pretty featureless, un-animated green circles when you look inside the barrels.

Of course, if you're not in a position to make replacements, or can't find better ones, then I don't suppose there is much that you can do about it.


I understand. I'm not a voxel modeller so that's a little problem far out of my reach. Thankfully I added a last-minute option in NTMAI Options that lets you turn these off (I'll just let you guess what the command is called). Unfortunately it affects every voxel model outside this mod too though.

skdursh wrote:Too many updatesss. Get a github. It's so much better for ongoing projects where you're going to be constantly updating things.

Sorry, I just can't help the frequent updates lol. To settle things down, these updates are very commonly scheduled, being released on weekends. The hotfixes are usually last minute updates for big or concerning problems that randomly lie under my radar.

Github.. while it seems useful 100%, I just can't be bothered to use it, hence why I have a dev build in Dropbox.

Bofubutt wrote:[*]Having a berserk pack active when you finish a level appears to give you permanent berserk mode. I was using doom2.wad and ended Map31 with berserk active (about 50% left, I'd say), and it was still active in Map32. I had berserk mode up the entirety of it and thought maybe it was because I'd picked up the berserk pack at the start of it, but then I realize I'd never activated it. By the time I got to the start of Map16, I still had berserk. There was no percentage.

Thanks for the report, will look into it.

[*]The plasma rifle still feels a little off, like maybe it needs to be angled slightly closer to the center to match the projectiles (compare its angle to the shotgun or the BFG).


I agree. I've tried angling the projectiles but I can't quite seem to align it nicely to the crosshair. Hopefully I can be able to add this next update.

Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.8 - Build Engine-styled mod

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:49 am
by kadkad14
I didn't know about this, sorry. It seems I played an older version of this mod.

I was talking about sounds that can be bound to certain map objects making it universal ambient enhancer.
Dead marine redux mod done that job and you can hear ambient sounds just everywhere, even in oblige generated maps.
Just saying.

Also can color changing effects like this be implemented similar way as well? Or do they require manual work for every single map?
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/VibrantSatisf ... ricted.gif

Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.8 - Build Engine-styled mod

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:37 pm
by Dwailing
I can second the report about the berserk effect persisting between levels if it's active when you exit.

Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.8 - Build Engine-styled mod

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:31 pm
by Dwailing
On the subject of the berserk pack, the speed boost is nice as is the restoration of health, but the punch boost feels lackluster because enemies fire too quickly to make punching viable even against basic enemies like zombies. I would suggest adding a damage reduction effect for the duration of power-up and making it last less time. A buff to the punch damage boost might be helpful too; with what I'm assuming is RNG in effect it can take up to two punches to kill zombies and imps which is way too many in light of how high their DPS is. The Berserk should feel like a high-risk/high-reward power-up, but right now it mostly just feels like a less useful portable medkit with a screen-screw and a movement boost that isn't particularly helpful given how fast your standard movement speed is. The effects on melee are practically unusable due to how slowly you punch and how quickly enemies can shoot you.

Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.8 - Build Engine-styled mod

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:41 pm
by Redneckerz
skdursh wrote:Too many updatesss. Get a github. It's so much better for ongoing projects where you're going to be constantly updating things.

Why is this enough an issue for you that it bothers you? Is it because the name of the thread is constantly in the recent new posts?

I actually consider that a plus though: It indicates that its in very active development and it keeps it in the public eye.

Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.8 - Build Engine-styled mod

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:54 pm
by Enjay
I don't really see the issue myself either. From an end user perspective, having the download updated in the thread is fine and means less clicking than getting it from GitHub. It's probably a bit more approachable for those not familiar with GitHub too.

Of course, if using Git suited CantSleep, then that would be reason enough to change. I'd be surprised if it was likely to give him a massive advantage for a project like this though.

Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.8 - Build Engine-styled mod

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:00 pm
by CantSleep
Dwailing wrote:On the subject of the berserk pack, the speed boost is nice as is the restoration of health, but the punch boost feels lackluster because enemies fire too quickly to make punching viable even against basic enemies like zombies. I would suggest adding a damage reduction effect for the duration of power-up and making it last less time. A buff to the punch damage boost might be helpful too; with what I'm assuming is RNG in effect it can take up to two punches to kill zombies and imps which is way too many in light of how high their DPS is. The Berserk should feel like a high-risk/high-reward power-up, but right now it mostly just feels like a less useful portable medkit with a screen-screw and a movement boost that isn't particularly helpful given how fast your standard movement speed is. The effects on melee are practically unusable due to how slowly you punch and how quickly enemies can shoot you.


Well, isn't the original Berserk just as... well, berserk? Blinds your screen for some time, literally has the same amount of damage output as this mod's Berserk, punch speed is still the same, etc. To me it just sounds like you're having bad luck... I could test it out a bit but I can't reach my PC right now. Mostly bad RNG but if the vanilla berserk actually takes less than 2 punches minimum to kill a zombieman then that's a serious problem in the new berserk that I need to buff.

For now I recommend you take advantage of the infinite berserk bug, until I can look into this. :)

I have a little request for everyone:
If anyone could provide voxel models of the Berserk Pack and/or Portable Medkit, it would be much appreciated.
Spoiler:

Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.8 - Build Engine-styled mod

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:51 pm
by TheEternalStruggler
I wish you could add alternate death animations for the demons. As well as unique chainsaw death animations, and some varied and unique gibs/gore. (Like arms, eyes, heads, organs, brains, legs, torsos) It’d be awesome and would totally add to the Build vibe; as well as not make the combat feel monotonous or unsatisfying. But this is just my personal criticism. Ideally it’d be nice, but I understand if it can’t be implemented due to the complexity of it.

I really love this mod though and I look forward to future updates! :)

Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.8 - Build Engine-styled mod

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:55 am
by NotSoHazy
Doomguy needs to say some catchphrase in the beginning of a mapset.

Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.8 - Build Engine-styled mod

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:21 pm
by Dwailing
CantSleep wrote:
Dwailing wrote:On the subject of the berserk pack, the speed boost is nice as is the restoration of health, but the punch boost feels lackluster because enemies fire too quickly to make punching viable even against basic enemies like zombies. I would suggest adding a damage reduction effect for the duration of power-up and making it last less time. A buff to the punch damage boost might be helpful too; with what I'm assuming is RNG in effect it can take up to two punches to kill zombies and imps which is way too many in light of how high their DPS is. The Berserk should feel like a high-risk/high-reward power-up, but right now it mostly just feels like a less useful portable medkit with a screen-screw and a movement boost that isn't particularly helpful given how fast your standard movement speed is. The effects on melee are practically unusable due to how slowly you punch and how quickly enemies can shoot you.


Well, isn't the original Berserk just as... well, berserk? Blinds your screen for some time, literally has the same amount of damage output as this mod's Berserk, punch speed is still the same, etc. To me it just sounds like you're having bad luck... I could test it out a bit but I can't reach my PC right now. Mostly bad RNG but if the vanilla berserk actually takes less than 2 punches minimum to kill a zombieman then that's a serious problem in the new berserk that I need to buff.

For now I recommend you take advantage of the infinite berserk bug, until I can look into this. :)


My suspicion is that it's not anything actually wrong with the damage of the berserk but rather a problem with how what was a perfectly balanced effect when enemies were slower and more predictable is now underpowered because the DPS of the enemies you'd usually use the berserk against is higher (i.e. zombies, imps, pinkies, specters, lost souls). In vanilla you can charge into a room full of zombies and imps with the berserk and punch them all apart with only a little damage taken, but because they all fire faster now you'll take way more damage or even just outright die.

Re: Nobody Told Me About id v0.1.8 - Build Engine-styled mod

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:18 pm
by Whoah
My suggestion would be to buff the player's punch speed when berserk is active, and/or have the chainsaw be affected by berserk