Hexen: Walpurgis 0.92 (For Doom/Heretic/Hexen)

[bluedevil244]

ordering is perfect for my taste i would add some electricity effect on baratus axe once upgraded or something like that and small electricity trail to wonce he throws it

[eharper256]

Weapons getting second passes with improved sprites has been happening a fair few times since the mod began, most obviously with the Werewolf and the Lightbringer in the most recent patch, so yeah the Axe is due to get some tweaks (I was thinking the other day that the vorpal slash and thrown animations could use an improvement). It'll probably get to them the same time as the Gladius comes in.

Also: some general good news; got my first COVID vaccine today, so the light at the end of the lockdown tunnel is finally showing itself! I'm a kidney transplantee, only one of my three kidneys works (they don't take the old ones out when you get a new one, lol), so part of the 'at risk' population, in case you're wondering why I got mine.

[Linz]

Good to hear you're pretty much safe from COVID now

[SallazarSpellcaster]

Quick question for everyone: which would you guys prefer to see next as priority?

1) Druid Upgrades
2) Other Slot [2] replacements
3) More Monster alterations

Of course, all of them will be done eventually, this is simply setting 0.93's primary goal. Post your preference!

This is the best order of priorities for future updates!

The druid should, first and foremost, be at the same level as the other characters - the only missing aspect for her are upgrades.

Other Slot 2 replacements can be worked intermittently with monsters; when working on monsters, it may be best to focus on bosses as you have so far, since they added an extra bit of flavor.

[eharper256]

Good to hear you're pretty much safe from COVID now

Thanks. Had a dreadful fever from the jab last night but that's all par de course I suppose.

This is the best order of priorities for future updates!

The druid should, first and foremost, be at the same level as the other characters - the only missing aspect for her are upgrades.

Other Slot 2 replacements can be worked intermittently with monsters; when working on monsters, it may be best to focus on bosses as you have so far, since they added an extra bit of flavor.

Yep, that ordering was the default. Now I'm happy with all the base Druid weapons, I can start on her upgrades.

[bluedevil244]

Good to hear you're pretty much safe from COVID now

Thanks. Had a dreadful fever from the jab last night but that's all par de course I suppose.

This is the best order of priorities for future updates!

The druid should, first and foremost, be at the same level as the other characters - the only missing aspect for her are upgrades.

Other Slot 2 replacements can be worked intermittently with monsters; when working on monsters, it may be best to focus on bosses as you have so far, since they added an extra bit of flavor.

Yep, that ordering was the default. Now I'm happy with all the base Druid weapons, I can start on her upgrades.

the druide :wolf update is now more enjoyable ! you did a good job with those claw!

[eharper256]

Yes, I'm happy with how the wolf feels now; the power ups and new spriting have really helped it feel a much better slot 2.

Congrats on securing the 500th post on the topic, by the way (lol).

[RafaHell]

@eharper256 If I may, I'd like to express some suggestions for Walpurgis. This is in part continued from the HexenHD topic, which got me thinking a few things.

First off, a small intro: I think I've said this in previous posts in this here topic, but I want to say I absolutely love this mod. I just can't see myself playing HeXen without it... It brings forth so much of that which vanilla Hexen is just off with, and that is: Great game-"feel".
It gives the player options to battle with all characters in equal terms while also maintaining a true variety of attacks without ignoring balance and power.
I dare say: "The way Hexen was meant to be played."

That said, I have a few suggestions/minor issues that I'd like to express, having been playing a lot of it lately and recently trying it with the HexenHD facelift:

1- Ettin Sargeants = Too much. Bring 'em down a notch. I love the idea of having slight monster variations, but this guy is a problem. My suggestion would be to choose just 2 of the "enhancements" it has (just "enhanced health + throws mace", or "can dodge out of the way + faster attacks"), but not all of them together...
IMO, making 'em move fast is what's killing it for me. In a crowd of Ettins, these guys are on you like bees, don't let up, and are difficult to make out in the dark or in a crowd. Annoying, and sometimes even plain unfair.
Maybe keep the fast-moving, dodgy-ness for Afrits or Weredragons...

2- Pariah the Cleric's shield bash "feel" = There's a slight delay from when you press the shield button to when it actually "hits/deflects", and I feel it should be instant, or nearly instant, for it to feel better, and for being able to be more precise when deflecting projectiles.
I primarily use Pariah in Walpurgis, so I've learned the timing, but it still feels off to me, and kinda useless.
Besides that I wish it should stun enemies a teensy bit longer. Currently I feel when I shield bash an enemy to push it away it almost instantly gets right back in my face and smacks me anyway...
A nice bigger/longer shove+stun would feel better. Not as much as repulsion disks, but yeah.

3- Brightmaps on pickups = I'd like to see all health items, powerups and flechettes have some minor brightmaps applied. Right now they're very easy to miss in even semi-dark areas...

4- Walpurgis + HexenHD marriage = So, as I mentioned in HexenHD's forum, Walpurgis does work with it, albeit currently with many errors and glitches like Maulotaur bodies (and maybe other monster bodies, not sure) growing in size on death, leaving a comically HUGE corpse.
So how feasible would it be to work closely with HexenHD's maker to give perfect compatibility between the two?

[Lagi]

i think push is weak because in crowded situation, pushed enemy is blocked by the monster behind his back. So it end with being push very little.

While Disc of Repulsion is Area of Effect. Pushing all monster, in front and back same time, so they dont collide and dont stop.

[eharper256]

I dare say: "The way Hexen was meant to be played."

Thankyou. I really appreciate a compliment like that.

1- Ettin Sargeants = Too much. Bring 'em down a notch. I love the idea of having slight monster variations, but this guy is a problem. My suggestion would be to choose just 2 of the "enhancements" it has (just "enhanced health + throws mace", or "can dodge out of the way + faster attacks"), but not all of them together...
IMO, making 'em move fast is what's killing it for me. In a crowd of Ettins, these guys are on you like bees, don't let up, and are difficult to make out in the dark or in a crowd. Annoying, and sometimes even plain unfair.
Maybe keep the fast-moving, dodgy-ness for Afrits or Weredragons...

I have to say, I really wanted them to be a really good step up from the basic Ettin. "An irritating, hounding bastard you can't ignore" was precisely their design brief, because the Hexen bestiary lacks such a employee by default (its a job taken by the Revenant and Archvile in Doom, and by the Ophidan and Iron Lich in Heretic). Its forcing you to isolate him and take care of him quickly before he can flank you.

Since its implied that Ettins are cursed Legionairres in the lore; it makes sense to me that some were veterans, and those guys could be dangerous and fast in armour like Baratus.

That said, I agree he's bit prolific at the moment. The intent is to have several Ettin types eventually, and when that occurs, he'll continue to show up as the real elite one but you won't see him so often, so hopefully it won't feel so unfair.

As an aside; if you are playing Difficulty 5, that may also be your issue; Fastmonsters makes him horrifically fast.

2- Parias the Cleric's shield bash "feel" = There's a slight delay from when you press the shield button to when it actually "hits/deflects", and I feel it should be instant, or nearly instant, for it to feel better, and for being able to be more precise when deflecting projectiles.
I primarily use Parias in Walpurgis, so I've learned the timing, but it still feels off to me, and kinda useless.
Besides that I wish it should stun enemies a teensy bit longer. Currently I feel when I shield bash an enemy to push it away it almost instantly gets right back in my face and smacks me anyway...
A nice bigger/longer shove+stun would feel better. Not as much as repulsion disks, but yeah.

With Parias being reasonably fast, I find the stun duration is adequate to give yourself breathing room or escape options; smack, then strafe away~ that's the intent of it. This, plus the huge continuous stun you can get from his Flechettes is supposed to give you more chances to escape to more advantageous places to engage enemies with the mace. Plus, giving yourself projectile deflection and momentary invincibility for those 9 frames or so is quite valuable already. If made too good, as you say, Repulsion Discs become mostly useless to Parias if he can do the effect for free on his [1] slot.

As Lagi says, Discs use an A_Blast effect, basically an explosion that doesn't do damage, just recoils everything in an area. The Shield Bash, on the other hand, forces monster velocity backwards. If the monster is already quick to begin with, or impacts something that prevents them from moving backwards, they can quickly negate the reverse momentum and be back on you (the old Doom engine doesn't care about stuff like inertia much lol). If you bash something into a free space with no snags, they can go back a fair bit.

3- Brightmaps on pickups = I'd like to see all health items, powerups and flechettes have some minor brightmaps applied. Right now they're very easy to miss in even semi-dark areas...

Yep, Brightmaps are a thing I should do. Its one of those things that is quite low on the priority list all the time considering its pretty minor yet requires lots of work.

4- Walpurgis + HexenHD marriage = So, as I mentioned in HexenHD's forum, Walpurgis does work with it, albeit currently with many errors and glitches like Maulotaur bodies (and maybe other monster bodies, not sure) growing in size on death, leaving a comically HUGE corpse.

Do you mean the Heretic enemy in this case? Or the Maulatour Summoning Doll? Either way, that's bizarre, since I don't alter those in any way.

So how feasible would it be to work closely with HexenHD's maker to give perfect compatibility between the two?

It sounds like he's added a compatibility patch recently. But absolute compatibility is hard at best because both mods make quite sweeping changes that overlap in several places. Its that kind of thing that causes weird bugs, as you may have noticed. In theory, the best version of it to work with Walpurgis would be one that just gives you HD flats and wall textures, so similar to the already available neural upscale (which he uses for his textures), just with the PBR stuff tagged on.

[RafaHell]

Firstly, thank you for replying to all of my observations/suggestions!

Since its implied that Ettins are cursed Legionairres in the lore; it makes sense to me that some were veterans, and those guys could be dangerous and fast in armour like Baratus.

I mean, sure, but... they're sooo annoying!...

That said, I agree he's bit prolific at the moment. The intent is to have several Ettin types eventually, and when that occurs, he'll continue to show up as the real elite one but you won't see him so often, so hopefully it won't feel so unfair.

Sounds good. I still think it's speed is kinda ridiculous, like a big hunking mosquito...
I personally (and yes, I'm a nobody on the internet, so, whatever) still think at least it's speed should be brought down a notch or two.

As an aside; if you are playing Difficulty 5, that may also be your issue; Fastmonsters makes him horrifically fast.

Difficulty 4 for me, good sir/madam... Difficulty 4...

With Parias being reasonably fast, I find the stun duration is adequate to give yourself breathing room or escape options; smack, then strafe away~ that's the intent of it. This, plus the huge continuous stun you can get from his Flechettes is supposed to give you more chances to escape to more advantageous places to engage enemies with the mace. Plus, giving yourself projectile deflection and momentary invincibility for those 9 frames or so is quite valuable already. If made too good, as you say, Repulsion Discs become mostly useless to Parias if he can do the effect for free on his [1] slot.

As Lagi says, Discs use an A_Blast effect, basically an explosion that doesn't do damage, just recoils everything in an area. The Shield Bash, on the other hand, forces monster velocity backwards. If the monster is already quick to begin with, or impacts something that prevents them from moving backwards, they can quickly negate the reverse momentum and be back on you (the old Doom engine doesn't care about stuff like inertia much lol). If you bash something into a free space with no snags, they can go back a fair bit.

I know Discs use a different function call, which furthers my case: The shield bash is a different beast, in that the knockback is about fine, but it's stun really could be a bit longer. Those 9 frames you mention are practically unnoticeable in my experience...
Shield Bashing just feels like a lesser mace hit, with a very minor knockback effect, and (I insist), an unnoticeable stun effect... And, the stun effect is for a single enemy... I dunno, I feel giving it a bit more prevalence would make shield bashing actually useful. Right now I practically never use it except maaaayyybe in some rare instance to know an enemy off a ledge, just for kicks...

Besides the stun, there's the issue of that slight delay between pressing the alt-fire button and the shieldbash effect to actually engage...

What I'm wishing for here are really slight tweaks to it, mind you. I wouldn't expect an overhaul or anything like that. What I imagine is something that would make alternating between mace and shield an actual viable tactic, giving it a touch of Dark Souls combat even!

Yep, Brightmaps are a thing I should do. Its one of those things that is quite low on the priority list all the time considering its pretty minor yet requires lots of work.

Coo'... can't wait.

Do you mean the Heretic enemy in this case? Or the Maulatour Summoning Doll? Either way, that's bizarre, since I don't alter those in any way.

I mistook the monster's name... I meant the Centaurs, not the Maulotaurs!
Anyway, that has been fixed, although now Centaurs' corpse sprites appear half-sunk into the ground, which at least doesn't block a whole room's worth of view, but it looks weird, though perfectly ignoreable.

It sounds like he's added a compatibility patch recently. But absolute compatibility is hard at best because both mods make quite sweeping changes that overlap in several places. Its that kind of thing that causes weird bugs, as you may have noticed. In theory, the best version of it to work with Walpurgis would be one that just gives you HD flats and wall textures, so similar to the already available neural upscale (which he uses for his textures), just with the PBR stuff tagged on.

Can confirm his latest patch works beautifully with Walpurgis!
(suggest adding Xeotroid's enhanced Hexen soundtrack for optimal HDness)

[Lagi]

i remember i was using shield bash to deflect projectiles only, and that was fun. You need some skill, timing, and manage to spot the projectile before. Its like reverse shooting.

[Colerx]

Very nice mod! combat feels like bloodthirst
tested in co-op and unfortunately many weapons encounter problems on client side... unfortunately, but it's damn good in single player.
At this point I ask, could something be tweaked around to get the mod working in co-op mode?
Many thanks for your work!, I'm sorry about your covid illness, but I'm glad you recovered. Take care!

[eharper256]

Very nice mod! combat feels like bloodthirst
tested in co-op and unfortunately many weapons encounter problems on client side... unfortunately, but it's damn good in single player.
At this point I ask, could something be tweaked around to get the mod working in co-op mode?
Many thanks for your work!, I'm sorry about your covid illness, but I'm glad you recovered. Take care!

Thanks for playing, and glad you enjoy.

Yeah, co-op has been requested previously. It's a tough one because it requires me to re-write alot of my spawner and effects code to be alot more complicated (among many other things). So its something I will look into, but its not something that will happen quickly. I'll see if I can get it in there by 1.0 though.

You make it sound like I had COVID! I would be very, very dead if I did, considering I'm immunosuppressed. I'm glad to be vaccinated even despite the side effects. Being stuck in a box for a year or so has enabled quite alot of progress on Walp though, so I guess its not all bad.

i remember i was using shield bash to deflect projectiles only, and that was fun. You need some skill, timing, and manage to spot the projectile before. Its like reverse shooting.

Yep, I really like how the shield works right now myself.

I mean, sure, but... they're sooo annoying!...
Sounds good. I still think it's speed is kinda ridiculous, like a big hunking mosquito...
I personally (and yes, I'm a nobody on the internet, so, whatever) still think at least it's speed should be brought down a notch or two.

Well I'll think about it. Might drop it by 5% or something.

I know Discs use a different function call, which furthers my case: The shield bash is a different beast, in that the knockback is about fine, but it's stun really could be a bit longer. Those 9 frames you mention are practically unnoticeable in my experience...
Shield Bashing just feels like a lesser mace hit, with a very minor knockback effect, and (I insist), an unnoticeable stun effect... And, the stun effect is for a single enemy... I dunno, I feel giving it a bit more prevalence would make shield bashing actually useful. Right now I practically never use it except maaaayyybe in some rare instance to know an enemy off a ledge, just for kicks...

Unfortunately, the stun length is the one thing I can't really control much. In a Doom engine game, its determined by how many frames the Monster's Pain state is.

Besides the stun, there's the issue of that slight delay between pressing the alt-fire button and the shieldbash effect to actually engage...

Just checked. It should be six tics delay, roughly 1/6th of a second. It has that much so that the animation doesn't look janky as hell. One tic after you press the button, and the shield begins to rise, is when you start getting your invincibility frames, and they should last 10 frames in total (1/3rd of a second in total). Not sure what else I can do to make it much faster honestly; but I'll see what happens if I nudge the impact 1 tic backwards, that's the most I could really do.

Anyway, that has been fixed, although now Centaurs' corpse sprites appear half-sunk into the ground, which at least doesn't block a whole room's worth of view, but it looks weird, though perfectly ignoreable.

I expect that's a side effect of the PBR in Hexen HD extruding the floor (so it seems to come a few pixels out of the 'ground') but the corpse is likely still sat at (0,0) where the actual flat is.

{suggest adding Xeotroid's enhanced Hexen soundtrack for optimal HDness)

I already use that myself, haha. BUT I won't bundle it because alot of people prefer their midi's.

[Colerx]

You make it sound like I had COVID! I would be very, very dead if I did, considering I'm immunosuppressed. I'm glad to be vaccinated even despite the side effects. Being stuck in a box for a year or so has enabled quite alot of progress on Walp though, so I guess its not all bad.

Oh, my bad I mishunderstood, anyway glad you got your vaccine and everything will get better now:)

Thanks for willing to look into the co-op thing, if you need some testers just send me a PM , keep on the good work! safely