Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Lagi » Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:04 am

Crudux Cruo wrote:I just wanted to pop in and say that this is MASSIVELY BETTER than the first release! there are still some iffy elements here or there, but man is this fun to play.

thanks, its very uplifting to see any comment. I know that people are checking this thread and downloading the mod, but receiving a message is like confirmation that somebody, want me to do more.

Crudux Cruo wrote:Still think the wand could use a faster fire rate.

spend 15 min wand shooting gargoyles and possessed. They usually die in 2 shoots. Taking into account the nature of this mod (close combat, low-fantasy), I must say Rate of Fire is good. I do not want any machine guns in my mod.

I was playing Heretic: Quest for the Crystal Skulls yesterday with Bitter Heretic, and crystal wand is often the only tool to deal with ghost enemies. Even without it, its a solid range weapon, affecting all enemies, with decent melee attack (quick to use), and plenty of ammo.

Crudux Cruo wrote: smoother frames for some sprites would be nice too.

Im working on this right now, but this would take me some time (3 days per monster * 10 = 30 days of non-stop work, I guess i would burn out long before). Do you find some particular animation that annoys you, and adding few sprites there would improve the reception ?

I for that matter, would like to add +2 frames to Gargoyle recovery animation, when he fall down from sky. But I focus now on big stuff.

=======================================

EDIT:

Gargoyle added [uploaded for anyone willing to try]


as always I forgot about sound [just kinding, I am deaf]

smooth 12 frame for front 3 direction only 1,2,8 - but you cannot really tell, if I wouldnt tell you.
for comparison I summon Affrit at the end, so you can notice how poor 4 frame animation look like.

You can notice, different wing swinging speed when gargoyle prepare for his charge (or change his mind and just suspend in air).

Also he have smooth recovery - instead 1 frame he has now 6 (if mirrored then 12, if you count like your d. size) - as per Crudux Cruo demand
Also i add smooth wand shot (courtesy of Gifty)
Also I add as requested faster wand shot. You can notice goldwand is faster, but flickering gray/gold state is slower - as per Crudux Cruo insist
Also You can see in movie how I turn on light from crystal

IMO the recovery animation is more impressive than his smooth fly/walk.
Also I ducking hate this drawing. My eyes burn, my spine is curved. I regret I draw back animation for golem - I could have next monster now :evil:

P.S. thank every 34 persons who download my mod since the last upload. I love you.

================
edit:

knight:
I swear to all demons, I draw again every sprite of that sequence. I thought gargoyle has shitty sprite, nope Knight is my new favorite.


and he is "jumping" when he land his left leg (from right side when you watch) - I though it would be a feature of asymmetrical steps, when I was preparing Interprite input :x
oh and I see his cuirass is flashing on breast.

edit2:
corrected knight


every time I watch the sequence I want to correct something. its 9pm, so that must do. Tomorrow direction 2 and 8 - I would be less obsessed. I hope I manage to do the mirror, cause knight is asymmetrical monster.

You probably notice "why is he jogging? He was walking in vanilla" I fight whole day with his leg movement, straight conversion looks absolutely garbage in 12 frames. Plus for me Knight was always shuffling, because his speed dont match the animation.
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Lagi » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:19 pm

UPLOADED - Knight front smooth walk - direction 1,2,8 (its not mirrored, axe in right hand)


Spoiler: previous video


A kind of poor presentation video (hey.. there is sound this time at least), knight appear somewhere in the middle of clip. Maybe tomorrow I record something better - but who cares, you can check it yourself.

the core Gargoyle, golem, knight - i would say are in playable state :D. I hate drawing this smooth animation its so boring and uninspiring :blergh: , but the end results are neat.

-----
p.s. I also add possibility to freeze monsters alive (you need to hit him with Ice again, when he is blue from previous ice damage), and shatter him to pieces. This way you can quicker kill some tough monster, and shattering ice sculpture is beneficial in combat.

edit: in attach video 1:26, knight is defrosting, if I kick him when his frozen it would be insta-kill.
-----

Maybe some of you would like to help and draw some sequence? Its simple, but tedious. Take the more time, the more pixel perfect you want to be.
I would write some tutorial tomorrow how i do it :geek: . Maybe someone will try and draw me some heretic monster (or help Gifty doing again his smooth Doom :D ).


------------
EDIT18.04
I completed 3rd episode. Its the first time I kill D'sparil without cheats. I use all carefully hoarded resources. I even smack him with a hammer few times, but coming close mean insta death from his melee attack so finally I refer to distant weapons.


Spoiler: feedback


edit:
add smooth Sabreclaw (3 front directions) - Uploaded

edit:
bugfixes - uploaded (spare shield not give weapon, shield pickup deselecting weapon, hammer not explode on ceiling, goldwand smooth shot, frozen knight alter corpse, sabreclaw charge, clean the code errors...)

edit:
just play episode 2 few hours on VeryHard (max difficutly), and Im having a blast. I reach only map 4 - ice grotto.
-weredragon have enough HP. Maybe even too much. He is such a sponge, that I need to freeze him, to kill him quicker. PLus when he is respawining at your back thats not fun at all.
-respawining monster creating nice tension, you cannot retreat to safety clear part of map. However they spawn a too soon. I double the spawn time
-i was force, to be aware about my items.Mirror was a blessing.Bandage i was using on place. I was tacticaly utilize shadowsphere to survive cluster of monsters.
- I was using block often to buy myself time. I even refrain from killing monster, so they dont reappear again when Im weak.
- apparently the hammer is not OP anymore, when his hit time is soo long you manage to die twice before the swing is over.

I said this is great mayhem.
OFC i would like to have more direction of smooth animation, smooth animation of attacks, smooth deaths. Besides Im quite done with this mod.

I would make weredragon more susceptible to ice effect. Not sure whether to touch his HP 250, on lower difficulties its not so harsh.
2x longer respawn time on VeryHard
Remove Queitus.
done

edit:
increase respawn time on VeryHard - now its a "default" difficulty. Its playable and fun (not like doom nightmare). And spawn of monsters keep the tension. I was on zero artifacts, and I think thats good.
weredragon has less hp, is less resistant to ice - now its ok. 220 HP is not enough, 250 is too much - so i set 235. OK, need playtest ofc.
remove Queitus. Now hefty swords is getting nicks, and after long use time it just breaks (I manage to break one just in second map :P).

edit:
add claw attack for Weredragons, in each 8 directions. Now infights look much better (with weredragon at least :P)


edit:
add smooth animation for 1 arm golems in each 8 directions (no left & no right arm version) - I very happy golem is now more complete :), also nothing is reminding you how odd was his movement. (I also hope I remove some minor bugfix with the alive freeze death - dont test it yet, but its uploaded).

EDIT:
just finished episode 5 on hard
quite irritating map pack in some places. Have few amazing place as well. Generally I have no patience to not jump over tiny ledges here and there :P.
Also the final fight was, eee... cliche? didnt expect nothing special really.

I think my mod is quite solid gameplay wise. Need to check with some maps where there is no pile of artifacts around every corners.

Shield is not occurring frequent enough. I think that would be nicely solved by introducing some monster with shield. Unfortunately only Centaur from hexen is available with shield - but in Bitter he would not be so annoying because most game is in close quarters.

edit:
add 2x help screens



edit:
upload 8x direction Gargoyle movement (12 frame) - good luck trying to see gargoyles back, only chance is to observe him when he charge you, and miss. Or multi (but I doubt Bitter is compatible with Zandronun) or use of bots (haha just kinding bots are not supported - I add it to my list)
so why did I do it? because its good to have complete things. Now i do other directions movement for the Knight.

edit:
upload knight side movement 12 frame direction 3 and 7 - you can actually see him moving parallel to player, contrary to gargoyle. 3,5 h of work. not sure if have strength for more today.
haha upload direction 4 and 6 - only dir5 todo. woow - Im so amazing. You can see this diagonal backdirection in game actually - Im happy my efforts are not completely pointless.

edit 29.04
upload all 8 direction smooth walk for knight and headless knight - woow its noticable quality. I make the headless knight animation move a little slower - and it feel like completely separate unit.
I feel so excited to play it! First i give a rest to my eyes after next day of pixel hunting (15 min :D ).
After testing whats annoy me is that new melee slash for knight is only in 1 (front direction), i would like to see him slicing his friends as well :evil: .
As always - the todo list is only growing. :)

edit 30.04
upload 8x direction melee attack 2x frame for knight. The Knights infight looks massively better.

I was playing multiple custom maps for heretic from master levels:
    shield is occurring not enough
    shield block is annoying, because player seldom randomly drop down the guard - f.ex. when you hope to intercept projectile with the shield :x
    the ghost enemies occurring too often
I guess the map creators need to place some tougher guys, and they decide to use ghost version. I think it should be situational enemy. Anyway majority of mappers thoughts otherwise.
I think i would include 50% for other guys spawn, instead nitro(or not) golem ghost and knight ghost. Im thinking about armored ettin, ettin and centuar ( i need to look around for stuff to steal :roll: ). I would like to put monster with shields so it would solve one of my other issue.

edit:
new monster dead knight

by Submitted: Tormentor667, Code: Eriance, Ghastly (ZScript conversion) - the success have multiple fathers :D

he replaces 2/3 of ghost undead knight
he drop shield

originally he is almost unbeatable boss tier monster (1250 hp, 3x range high dmg attacks - OP as f.ck). Here is cut to fit in line with other knights (160hp, same pain chance, or resist to ice, fire, poison,stun).

he have range attack - exploding into smaller, red fire projetiles. Not to powerful, he used is seldom, but its areal & quite hard to avoid it, and it very easily trigger in-fights :D.
his melee attack is same as knights.

So what is special to deserve to be equivalent of ghost knight? he has shield
"oh noo... man dont you play hexen? are you out of your mind?!"
in my defense he is not covering with shield always, so you can try to look for opening (i try it in game, its impossible to be aware about surroundings and shoot him in correct time) and he is easy in close range, but shooting him is asking for decease from your own projectiles... moreover deflects auto aim back at you, and Corvus has very hard time trying to survive his own crossbow bolt.

as a cherry on top, he can heal himself when he is far away from player.

as a drawback, he is not smooth walking - and is little jarring to see fancy walking green knights along this hobble. Well maybe other day I do him favor - if I like him enough :D .

--------
golem ghost are replace by Wendigo (50/50) - besides his ice attack that freeze other monster, he is absolutely meh :? I have no better idea, nor resources, nor will to draw, for now
wendigo 1 frame-crap-looking melee attack push you back. Range animation has little telegraph time. He have pain frame - when he close his eye (its from vanilla hexen - never used).

edit:
hmm... just my 2 neurons connect together - and I come to idea.

what if Corvus start only with wand - as he should. And find mace somewhere on the level.

Mace is in possession of Ettins. I could take ettin and marvelous armored ettin by Neoworm, and make this guy replace 50% golems and ghost golems.

now the question is,[who will do the job & if I still have will to do it] why would you need multiple maces?
    do you damage or lost the one you currently have?
    or use it as ammo [nicely mirror doom zombie trooper for clip drop behavior]?
    or some hazard take the mace out from you (like crossbow)?
    or maybe multiple maces provide upgraded version?
----
i estimate that smooth sprite for death knight are not worthy it - i would try to do recolor of current smooth knight in my possession. and then paste sword and shield.

---
I drop the knight recoloring its hundred of sprites to recolor manualy plus I would need to input sword and shield everywhere on different angle. I would not be more eager to do it in the future, so im sorry death knight.
---

Idea for mace:
Ettins drop the mace, but also take it back.
Ettin have punch attack, which disarm Corvus from mace if one is in player possession.
small problem would be mace and torch weapon. And torch alone if player dont possess mace nor axe.
Big problem would be make smooth animation for ettins (and armored ettins), cause they would look like cripple as common enemy compare to golem and gargoyles.
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Lagi » Wed May 06, 2020 10:12 am

Smoothed monster: Wendigo (replace 50% of golem ghost)
    has smooth walk animation (front and diagonal front only - its loads of work, and you see front most of the time)
    telegraphing +2 frame for missile attack (fists with magic, open palm with no magic)
    melee punch than knock back (3 frame each direction, frontal has left right)
    his projectile leaving debris on walls,
    you can crouch to dodge his iceballs
    he has ice vapor as "blood"
    he healing himself if receive ice damage
    he has now death animation (break into pieces, leave foot as corpse)

Image



I used to hate this guy. He always feel barebone, lacking sprites, having poor attacks, cheap death animation and I just cannot look at his offended face.
but now I find him fun. Dont know why but he way too often start in-fights. And thats just hilarious to watch. He hit gargoyle, to fend it off, and go for another target :lol: . Other monsters seems to hate him, because he doesnt watch where he aim his snowy missiles.

----
Afrit receive some telegraphing. Its now prone to poison hue. Can be stun with block.
---
I also add new dead/pain sounds for almost all monsters.
I increase strafing speed a lot - its feelable difference.
Hiding weapon is twice as fast.
there is counter for Krater of Might speed power
Shadowspere grant 80% resist to fire, ice and poison - so its good if you are bout to die from grenades chain reaction or walkin on lava (didnt test this, but i presume it work).
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Lagi » Sun May 10, 2020 9:49 am

Maulotaur:
Image

  • 3 front direction smooth animation - normal and wounded
  • +2 new frame to attack telegraphing (and +3 old frame reuse)
  • he throw fire hammer instead 5x fireballs (you can crouch to avoid it)
  • melee swing that knock player back (you can crouch to avoid it)
  • fire floor trail doing less damage

he is not properly tested, the amount of hardcoded stuff in him is annoying :)
-----------
grenade pickups, can now survive 2 hits (sometimes 3). Less frequent explosions.

----------------------------
edit 11.5:
I completed first 2x episode on VeryHard (with respawining monster) the gameplay is different, because you cannot relay on cleaning rooms, which I think is excellent (or maybe its fresh for me that why I enjoy it).

IronLich doesnt feel like boss at all. :/ not sure, increasing his HP would be detrimental to other placement of this monster. Maybe giving him resurrection would help?

Maulotarus are too weak as well. EPisode 2 on very hard, was not a challenge I expect. Final area is littered with artifacts weapons and armors: wings, krater of might - you must be handicapped to not outmaneuver them. Big open space dont help them. I think they need some range, distance control ability (maybe homing-charge??). On the other hand, there are maps, where you are not expected to kill them, and they are placed as scarecrow. Giving them quick kill range attack would mean that episode 5 final boss is impossible. I increase their HP by 700 for now.
I must think how I would like the combat with maulotaurs to look like.
-problem is big open space, and player outrunning Maulotarus - so Bulls need some nasty distant effect / attack, when player is away. To incline player to come closer - is also align with mod theme. They could build up power (heal self?) somehow, or summon henchmens?

fix:
shield is instantly blocking during swing combo with mace or axe.
disciple when dying from fire no longer levitate and merge into ceiling (or maybe was it a feature?).

???
DeathKnight should tougher, he occur very rare. And die quite quick. But i need to test what if he is spawn with bigger numbers.
Because f.ex. Weredragon feel a little too tough, when he occurs so often (as on Heretic difficulty), but its ok, because I dont expect people to be a masochist and play on VeryHard.

and thats it,

graphics:
Would be great if I find strength to do Afrit smooth animation - but Im tired.
Wendigo off hand left right hit combo, would be nice to do as well.
Smooth animation for death knight? But I dont have a feeling in game he need it soo much to justified my efforts :/
--------------------------
I would be very happy if someone share their opinions. Because I feel like its a routine for me now. And Im quite blind to obvious upgrades (like the suicide grenade chain explosions).

-------------
D'sparil deal in melee 10-50 dmg, instead 20d8
DeathKnight more hp 160>200, his flame attack do less damage (about 25%)
Wendigo melee do more damage (50% more) he has new death variation (same death just mirror of sprite)
Afrit less hp 55>45
Maulotaur Melee attack do now 7d8 dmg, Charge is homing on player, hammer is little faster

----------------
Image
3 front - he looks better in game :D

Image

now this malnourished yellowbone, without pants AGAIN - serpent raiders! why do you forsaken me?
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Lagi » Sat May 16, 2020 8:53 am

Random keys.
there is total 6x different keys with gizmos, that are randomly chose for each map.
Map is displaying light Blue color for each key locked door. The position of gem on UI is random as well.
(i play like 5x map, and squeeze already some bugs, so hope its playable)

Add PY weapon wheel to the mod by default, with custom adjustments (wheel grp, weapon you dont have are not display, if you have upgrade the obsolete weapon is not display (like shield+mace, obsolete mace; or Etheral crossbow obsolete Mundane crossbow).


Spoiler:


mundane crossbow is auto reload if you hold fire.
there is 3rd page of help (with suggested options setting)

=======
idea:
let Tome of Power alt fire, trap monster in ice, if he is close.

EDIT;
3ep & Kill D'Sparil again. This time in melee :lol: [D'sparil melee is nerf from insta kill to something like 50 hp + pushback].
. Hard difficulty[blasphemer], but it was easy.

bugs[that i fix right now]: hammer is auto changing on pickup, helm is always pick up (even if 200 armor), plate armor lost when 100 armor instead 50. Random keys works good, so the integrated weapon wheel. I think more gizmos, separate statue for each key, would be nice. I didnt encounter any ghost enemies this time (or maybe i didnt kill them) :/ (not sure if ep 3 is scarce with invisible guys?).

--------------------
new gizmos (yellow is old one)

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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby elCreyo » Sat May 16, 2020 6:50 pm

Hey. This is awesome so far. So much cool stuff going on. And combat feels great.
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Gifty » Sat May 16, 2020 9:16 pm

That "ouch skin" with the gashes on that minotaur looks AWESOME
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Lagi » Sun May 17, 2020 1:35 am

e2 boss fight with Maulotaurs, on veryhard (heretic). Its harder now, i die once, and I was little afraid this may happen again - i think its good. His homing charge is scary (I think you cannot outrun or strafe away from it?), but I use ice wall to stop him, or try to hide between other monsters - good stuff. Also faster hammer throws give this feeling of "woah that was close".
Maulotaur has some problem melee hitting in infights small or flying creatures, because he has fixed pitch - but its negligible inconvenience.

yes i cheat a little with HP bars, but I want to see how much damage he take.

elCreyo wrote:Hey. This is awesome so far. So much cool stuff going on. And combat feels great.

Thank you very much. I dont plan to add anything more (unless Neoworm draw something new :D), so i hope it stay awesome. Thanks. If you have any critique about some element Im happy to hear it.

Gifty wrote:That "ouch skin" with the gashes on that minotaur looks AWESOME

:oops: ohh stop it. Its nowhere near the new stuff you cooking for SmoothDoom2 (PolishedToMirrorDoom :) ).
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Ferretmanjcdenton » Tue May 19, 2020 11:24 am

You mod is UNBELIEVABLY AWESOME...
I was hoping for more mods based around meele weaponry..

Ixhoz and total chaos made some nice stuff ...but yours is amazing cause it uses 2 d Sprite based weapons ...and the animations are absolutely gorgeous...love it ...
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Ferretmanjcdenton » Tue May 19, 2020 11:31 am

One thing ...
I really miss some kind of slashing sounds when pushing the enemies back ...there is no sound whatsoever when hitting them and they flying backwards ...

Would it be possible to implement that ?
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Lagi » Tue May 19, 2020 1:19 pm

Ferretmanjcdenton wrote:One thing ...
I really miss some kind of slashing sounds when pushing the enemies back ...there is no sound whatsoever when hitting them and they flying backwards ...

Would it be possible to implement that ?


Thank you, Im making a mod that I always like to play. Very happy somebody else enjoy it too.

it certainly is, and its easy to do, but could you specify your request? ...
slashing sound when pushing enemies back? you mean when you push them with shield? only enemies flying backwards are possessed (zombies)
i just check and there are 2x sounds when you punch enemies with shield (vanilla staff hit sound) and (a short leather drum hit)

I want to add knock back animation for more monsters, but: golem need to be redraw for armless version. Knight have headless and legless variant. Will see. Im gathering my spark again.

----------
ideas after today play:
there should be less grenades (8 of each?). To promote using them, instead hoarding, plus its OP when you can toss in second 20 crystals and mushrooms - nothing can survive that.
mace should swing slower, but be better against single tough enemies - %stun or more dmg? So even single axe would be better, cause 80 % of time you need to slaughter mass of enemies. but still if you face knight, you will switch weapon. And staff is a quick alternative for mace.
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Ferretmanjcdenton » Tue May 19, 2020 9:06 pm

Nice that you answered so fast ...

I was holding the spiked metallic club (don't know the name of the weapon )
And when pushing the alternate attack button the player holds the club in front of himself and the enemies get pushed backwards ...

That was what I meant...

I can make a short video on my channel if you like ..
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Ferretmanjcdenton » Tue May 19, 2020 9:10 pm

Ok ..my fault ...

I checked again and their is a sound ...a quite one ..but definitely one ...

I used the wrong add-on which caused some sounds to disappear...

Sorry ...
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Captain J » Tue May 19, 2020 10:40 pm

Bloody, Medieval, Gory, and just Gorgeous. You manage to make the Heretic much more challenging and tactical than usual. I love the changes and the gore effect! It's a wonderful feeling when i kill a flock of zombies with a mace.
Spoiler: And here's some feedback of the day
And that's about it. It gets really real!
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Lagi » Wed May 20, 2020 1:25 am

Ferretmanjcdenton wrote:Nice that you answered so fast ...

I was holding the spiked metallic club (don't know the name of the weapon )
And when pushing the alternate attack button the player holds the club in front of himself and the enemies get pushed backwards ...

That was what I meant...

I can make a short video on my channel if you like ..


I call it Mace, but your name is also good. (name of the weapons you can check on the weapon wheel, if you bind it to f.ex. capslock)
Spoiler:


Alt fire is block. It looks strange, and not like block - I admit. But in doom gameplay, when you face 10 monster at once, some B-class action movie sillness is needed.

The sound was more exhibit before, but monster pain sounds was worse audible (its one or another to be louder). As we all can agree [such manipulation wow], we are all just a bunch o sadist, longing for bloodshed and agony screams.
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