Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Jarewill » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:27 pm

Yes, the devbuilds are at drdteam.org and the zip with them contains zmusic.dll.
For now I'll try to downgrade back to GZDoom release and check if it works.

Edit: The 4.3.3 release also does the VM abort for me. Must be an issue with my .ini file.
Edit2: Did a fresh install of GZDoom 4.3.3 and launched the mod with Heretic.wad. Issue still persists.
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Lagi » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:53 pm

Thank You Jarewill

uploaded corrected version

it was issue with Bitter mod.

I forgot to add cvarinfo (from game-raven from Statusbar mod) file with
user bool fullhud_splitarms = false;

and I have it somehow define in my .ini file - (so i dont suffer from it, unfortunately everybody else do :D )

so that means that <10 people dl my mod, was not able to play it, come to conculsion "F%@K MODS", and go play other stable games (hard to say if I should laugh or cry ) :?

edit:
new ophidian death he is cut in half ( eee.. trust me it looks better in game :) )
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Jarewill » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:25 am

This is looking very good so far.
Enjoying it a lot.

The Ethereal Crossbow feels good to fire and picking up a second one combines the two into a super crossbow.
However there are a few issues with that super crossbow:

Firstly, the altfire doesn't work anymore after picking up a second crossbow, and as far as I'm aware, the player can't switch to just one crossbow to use altfire.

And secondly, when firing it, the fired crossbow will phase in and out of existence. I even managed to make it completely disappear once.
After firing one bolt, the crossbow will have a few empty frames.

Another issue I noticed is that the fire is lagging a bit behind the player. I assume it's spawning light actors every few tics or so?
There's a better way to do it. Put A_AttachLightDef(1,"lightname") into the select state and A_RemoveLight(1) into the deselect state.
This will cause the player to start emitting light instead of spawning any actors. Instead of "lightname" put there your light definition from GLDEFS.
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Lagi » Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:51 am

Jarewill wrote:This is looking very good so far.
Enjoying it a lot.

Your words are balm for my heart.
Jarewill wrote:The Ethereal Crossbow feels good to fire and picking up a second one combines the two into a super crossbow.

All praise Neoworm, our lord and savior.
Jarewill wrote:However there are a few issues with that super crossbow:

Firstly, the altfire doesn't work anymore after picking up a second crossbow, and as far as I'm aware, the player can't switch to just one crossbow to use altfire.

I'm not happy with crossbow alt fire (Why there is 3 bolts that take 2 ammo ? Does the one on the body split into 3? ), but I dont have any other idea yet (maybe other ammo? normal sharp point bolt?), nor for other attack options (reload key).
when you have double crossbow, alt fire is no longer useful - double rail projectile are way more practical (unless you could shoot like 6 bolts? but this seems too power-fantasy to me - and i dont want to do it)

Idea is you merge 2x crossbows into one, and you can do that because as name said its "etheral" so it can "percolate" through solid matter.
Jarewill wrote:And secondly, when firing it, the fired crossbow will phase in and out of existence. I even managed to make it completely disappear once.
After firing one bolt, the crossbow will have a few empty frames.

Cross-crossbow (double X bow? :) ), was my experiment with Overlay functions. Sadly as you notice is buggy (or my coding skill are poor). Would be better if I just made solid sprites, but after wasting time on overlay experiment I feel discouraged to redraw everything again. [ i put on my list to redraw xxbow]
Jarewill wrote:Another issue I noticed is that the fire is lagging a bit behind the player. I assume it's spawning light actors every few tics or so?
There's a better way to do it. Put A_AttachLightDef(1,"lightname") into the select state and A_RemoveLight(1) into the deselect state.
This will cause the player to start emitting light instead of spawning any actors. Instead of "lightname" put there your light definition from GLDEFS.

thanks - I will improve it.

---

And Jarewill besides bugs, what are your ideas or wish you would like to see implemented? What new type of sprites would you like to see drawn, or you think would improve this wretched mod?
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Jarewill » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:43 am

Lagi wrote:Cross-crossbow (double X bow? :) ), was my experiment with Overlay functions. Sadly as you notice is buggy (or my coding skill are poor). Would be better if I just made solid sprites, but after wasting time on overlay experiment I feel discouraged to redraw everything again. [ i put on my list to redraw xxbow]

I got slightly curious, and I believe I fixed the disappearing crossbows issue. (They no longer disappear after firing, but I'm unsure if this is how you wanted it to be)
Spoiler:

I just cut the firing animations slightly and removed the TNT1 frames.

Lagi wrote:And Jarewill besides bugs, what are your ideas or wish you would like to see implemented? What new type of sprites would you like to see drawn, or you think would improve this wretched mod?

I was thinking a bit when trying to mess around with the double crossbow, and I got a small idea.
How about making the primary fire shoot the bolts in a repeating fashion? (Right, left, right, left, right, left, so on)
Not making it too fast too, so it wouldn't be too powerful, but it would still be useful.

As for the altfire, since the primary fire shoots two bolts, one after another. Maybe the altfire can shoot two bolts at once?
It would be for situations with tougher enemies that the player wants to dispatch quickly.
Meanwhile the primary fire would be useful where the player wants to save bolts, but still wants to pack a punch.

Of course, this is just an idea, it's still up to you if you want to have it this way or not.
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Lagi » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:37 pm

Jarewill wrote:
Lagi wrote:Cross-crossbow (double X bow? :) ), was my experiment with Overlay functions. Sadly as you notice is buggy (or my coding skill are poor). Would be better if I just made solid sprites, but after wasting time on overlay experiment I feel discouraged to redraw everything again. [ i put on my list to redraw xxbow]

I got slightly curious, and I believe I fixed the disappearing crossbows issue. (They no longer disappear after firing, but I'm unsure if this is how you wanted it to be)
Spoiler:

I just cut the firing animations slightly and removed the TNT1 frames.
I'm confiscating your code. And put it as part of my official mod now with next upload. Yeah,... sue me. :ugeek:
seriously Thanks again.
I notice the bottom string is draw below the right bow. Hmm.. I guess I have to add another Overlay for string only.

Jarewill wrote:
Lagi wrote:And Jarewill besides bugs, what are your ideas or wish you would like to see implemented? What new type of sprites would you like to see drawn, or you think would improve this wretched mod?

I was thinking a bit when trying to mess around with the double crossbow, and I got a small idea.
How about making the primary fire shoot the bolts in a repeating fashion? (Right, left, right, left, right, left, so on)
Not making it too fast too, so it wouldn't be too powerful, but it would still be useful.

As for the altfire, since the primary fire shoots two bolts, one after another. Maybe the altfire can shoot two bolts at once?
It would be for situations with tougher enemies that the player wants to dispatch quickly.
Meanwhile the primary fire would be useful where the player wants to save bolts, but still wants to pack a punch.

Of course, this is just an idea, it's still up to you if you want to have it this way or not.
I thought about it. In this case the difference in fire mode to be significant, shoot time between each bolt need to be longer.

primary---------alt
x _----------------- xx
_x----------------- __
x_----------------- xx
_x ----------------- __
x_ ----------------- xx
_x ----------------- __

Spoiler:


edit: I analyze above proposition - and opt against it.
- you artificially limit the fire rate of crossbow. You will wait with the shot to have fixed fire rate with primary fire.
- current solution contain both: you can shoot one by one, or almost both at once.
- current solution utilize the overlays, other wise the animation could be shot one side, wait for reload, flip image, pretend it shoot the other bow...
- it does not give proper alt fire to player - at the end the difference is very slim

+instead, the alt fire should release both strings at once but ...
... shoot with cluster of smaller not penetrating bolts
(i thing that will suits You as well.)

and R will be use for second ammo type to load

edit2: upload as above (ofc no new ammo type :), yet.. :D)
it shoot 11x bolt for 4 ammo - so yeah, hope its enough punch. Honestly its ammo waster. Maybe I tune it a little better in the future, for now let it be powerful.
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Lagi » Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:36 pm

Jarewill wrote:Another issue I noticed is that the fire is lagging a bit behind the player. I assume it's spawning light actors every few tics or so?
There's a better way to do it. Put A_AttachLightDef(1,"lightname") into the select state and A_RemoveLight(1) into the deselect state.
This will cause the player to start emitting light instead of spawning any actors. Instead of "lightname" put there your light definition from GLDEFS.


I change actor welding torch to A_AttachLightDef. And the light is weak. Maybe its ok for hammer and sword, because its only "effect", but not for torch.
Code: Select allExpand view
  Ready:
   TNT1 A 0 A_PlaySound("TORCHBRN",CHAN_6,0.1,true);
   TNT1 A 0 A_JumpIf(waterlevel>=3,"RemoveTorch");
   TNT1 A 0  A_AttachLightDef('3', 'TORCH2') ; //A_FireProjectile("weaponlighttorch", 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0); //
   MACT abcdefg 2 A_WeaponReady (WRF_ALLOWRELOAD);
    Loop;


any idea how to increase the light strength? I know only how to change size.

have a look - start 0:07, torch as pick up has actor light attach:


edit:
nevermind :)
Code: Select allExpand view
  Ready:
   TNT1 A 0 A_PlaySound("TORCHBRN",CHAN_6,0.1,true);
   TNT1 A 0 A_JumpIf(waterlevel>=3,"RemoveTorch");
   TNT1 A 0  {A_AttachLightDef('3', 'TORCH2') ; A_AttachLightDef('4', 'TORCH2') ; A_AttachLightDef('5', 'TORCH2') ;}
    TNT1 A 0 { A_AttachLightDef('6', 'TORCH2') ; A_AttachLightDef('7', 'TORCH2') ;}
   MACT abcdefg 2 A_WeaponReady (WRF_ALLOWRELOAD);
    Loop;
      
  Deselect:
    TNT1 A 0 A_StopSound(CHAN_6);
    MACT A 1 {A_RemoveLight('3');A_RemoveLight('4');A_RemoveLight('5');A_RemoveLight('6');A_RemoveLight('7');}
   MACT BCDEFG 1 A_Lower;
    Loop;
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Lagi » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:05 pm

I add splitcut head, dead animation of Ophidian (+mirror)



edit:
woo its ~+500 view of this page since last time I upload, and +78 downloads (according to my MediaFire counter)! You guys dont want to leave some feedback? A short "your mod suck" would be nice.

edit2:
i add new xdeath for golem from OSJC (no idea where I found this), (increase gargoyles deaths animation speed a little)

you need to hit golem with hammer or sword to see it
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby BradmanX » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:40 pm

Tried this mod on an Obhack mapset with Universal Entropy and Champions, I gotta say, I really like how this mod is so far, I like the focus primarily on melee, with some magic ranged weapons like the Elven Wand and the Tome of Power.

Would love to maybe see a proper crossbow in the mod though perhaps, since the you just outright losing the ethereal crossbow when you come in contact with a ghost enemy feels really cheap and perhaps instead the crossbow could become a normal crossbow after the touch of a ghost or something, so that ammo doesn't become completely unusable, just not able to damage ghosts and maybe not be quite as effective until you can regain ethereal power in it.
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Lagi » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:09 am

BradmanX wrote:Tried this mod on an Obhack mapset with Universal Entropy and Champions, I gotta say, I really like how this mod is so far, I like the focus primarily on melee, with some magic ranged weapons like the Elven Wand and the Tome of Power.

Thanks for reply. You use some heavy mutators I see, you must have very unique experience.

BradmanX wrote:I demand a proper crossbow in the mod, you filthy worm! ...outright losing the ethereal crossbow when you come in contact with a ghost enemy feels really cheap and instead the crossbow have to become a normal crossbow after the touch of a ghost, so that ammo doesn't become completely unusable, just not able to damage ghosts and maybe not be quite as effective until you can regain ethereal power in it.

By proper you mean material, i assume (by the context of following sentence). Thats a great and sensible idea. Also very prosaic :). I like it. Add it to my to do list (will go on it, just finish drawing next death animation). If you touch ghost crossbow will become normal one, with normal ammo. If you find xbow again, ethereal properties will come back.
Spoiler: whocares why
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby BradmanX » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:57 am

Lagi wrote:
BradmanX wrote:Tried this mod on an Obhack mapset with Universal Entropy and Champions, I gotta say, I really like how this mod is so far, I like the focus primarily on melee, with some magic ranged weapons like the Elven Wand and the Tome of Power.

Thanks for reply. You use some heavy mutators I see, you must have very unique experience.

Yeah, it definitely made things even more interesting for sure having the enemies randomized like that and with the occasional champion.

Lagi wrote:
BradmanX wrote:I demand a proper crossbow in the mod, you filthy worm! ...outright losing the ethereal crossbow when you come in contact with a ghost enemy feels really cheap and instead the crossbow have to become a normal crossbow after the touch of a ghost, so that ammo doesn't become completely unusable, just not able to damage ghosts and maybe not be quite as effective until you can regain ethereal power in it.

By proper you mean material, i assume (by the context of following sentence). Thats a great and sensible idea. Also very prosaic :). I like it. Add it to my to do list (will go on it, just finish drawing next death animation). If you touch ghost crossbow will become normal one, with normal ammo. If you find xbow again, ethereal properties will come back.

Yeah, I meant a material crossbow, and I definitely do agree that the ethereal crossbow doesn't often stay gone for long if you do manage to lose it, but at the same time, outright losing a weapon whose ammo isn't used by anything else kinda sucks, especially when said ammo is often one of the more plentiful sources in maps.
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Kagur » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:50 am

Now this looks promising. The only thing that looks off is the spiked mace, because its not something I would expect Corvus to use. Btw Lagi, if you are interested you can use some of my resources from this thread:

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=60849

Some are unfinished but still good to use.
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Lagi » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:17 pm

BradmanX wrote:losing a weapon whose ammo isn't used by anything else kinda sucks, especially when said ammo is often one of the more plentiful sources in maps.

valid point, I would think about it.
Cause my idea was/is: your ethereal bolts are transform into material one. So you would have a second stack of useless ammo, after(if) you find back another green crossbow.
I need to sleep with it I guess.


Kagur wrote:Now this looks promising. The only thing that looks off is the spiked mace, because its not something I would expect Corvus to use.

I agree. I have a feeling that Corvus should start with gold wand and that's it. And use it also as first melee weapon.
Mace is there because I personally adore this weapon (with shield :wub: ). And I make already lots of effort and dont want to waste my work (there is also torch combine with mace). Checking others weapons one would say Corvus will not use them either (hammer?).
Spoiler:


Kagur wrote: Btw Lagi, if you are interested you can use some of my resources from this thread:

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=60849

Some are unfinished but still good to use.

Thanks, appreciate. You afrit looks nice. You put lots of effort in details on Overtkill Ettin, you dont go for mirror but make asymmetrical monster.
You have quite good skills with modifying pieces. You color taste is a bit off (contrasting, dark, flashy, [purple,blue,red]).

Right now I plan to add only new death animation to existing monsters, and maybe new attack, new rotation - increase animations (sprites) for heretic monsters. If you like to draw something for that let me know (but no color alternation, of existing monsters).


=======================

edit:

I add disciple 2nd new death: hole in the body


EDIT2:

The mundane crossbow would look like this (upload tomorrow, need to do some logic for losing crossbows, ammo conversation etc.):


and you will hate the manual reload. Also it take soo long - Corvus first draw string & then load a bolt, after each shoot. This is not a rifle any more.
3 step of collectables: 1st you find mundane crossbow, then 2nd would be ethereal, 3rd double. And ghost would reset to the first one. And I think I would add breakable string in mundane crossbow. :)

edit:
uploaded - i add as well the necessity to reload xbow each time you select it (because the bolt is not attached to xbow at all, plus the string cannot be keep stretched or it will broke soon - i dont add breakable string).


edit:
this possessed dudes are now spawning sometimes quite often near some corpses (4x type of dinner for them).
I remove all blood,gibs, gore from it - so they look clean. 3 types of zombi possessd with all 8x death works (eight!!! OSJC you're insane). He have all poison,fire,ice, block stun, effects - and mirrors of pain frames and deaths (total 16x). Each type is also mirrored (6x types appear in game, with left OR right straight punch :))


edit:
New knight death. Include headless variant & ghosts.

When he collapse, he dont give up :D. As always the image didnt give justice to this beauty in motion.

edit:
new knight Xdeath. include headless variant &ghost

he get shocked by ethereal and explode into pieces (like in Mortal Kombat, has even same pose :D )

edit:
Spoiler: TODO or not :)


edit:
I add melee attack for gargoyle. It was always annoying me that it was not clear if the Garogyle is throwing the fire ball or not.
improve desaturated colors of new deaths gargoyle. Add custom sprite when gargoyle fall from sky. Fire gargoyles was buggy when you stun block them, now they work better.
add fire and ice death for legless knight



EDIT:
crippled golem has standard 3 frame attack
whole golem has +3 frame before 1st punch; 3+3 [first strike] +2+3 [second punch] +2 [recovery to neutral position] = 13 frames
anybody see a difference? can it be consider a smooth animation?



telegraphing of each monsters attack - gameplay should be easier and more fun. Knight new melee frame [when i draw the arm straight it appear too short]:
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Last edited by Lagi on Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Lagi » Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:18 pm

Golem with 12 frame - smooooooth walking animation - all 8 direction.

You can compare with armless golem, who still has 4 frame of walk. 12 frames walk looks normal, like a standard :D



uploaded, so you can check yourself.

edit:
sorry forget to turn on sound during recording :P


edit:
gargoyle


I draw +2 frames, before interpolation, because wing movement was bad. gargoyle was waving only with the end half of wing

Now i see the original artist, squeeze in one animation, walking and flying. Not sure if this trick would be convincing in 12 frames :?:
any way too much tweaching with limbs
I think would be good if he float up and down a little with wing movements.

Im only doing front and front-angle view, its a lot of work anyway -and player see front 80% of times.

edit:

after correction


i resign from up down floating, because I think it will look bad when he is idle on the ground.

the legs movement maybe looks funny now, but it should do the job when he either fly or walk on ground. Besides gargoyle suppose to be a grotesque figure.
IMO sweet. Im so proud of those wings :wub:

i think i will add the tip of the tail, wiggle left right. [ yes I overdoing it, my time is worhtless, and no one is paying me for it :D]
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Re: Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

Postby Crudux Cruo » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:31 pm

I just wanted to pop in and say that this is MASSIVELY BETTER than the first release! there are still some iffy elements here or there, but man is this fun to play.
Still think the wand could use a faster fire rate. smoother frames for some sprites would be nice too.
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