[v1.4] Satanic Gameshow Deluxe

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Re: [v1.4] Satanic Gameshow Deluxe

Postby MFG38 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:52 am

Someone64 wrote:So I played some of this mod and I have to say that I'm as shocked with the design decisions with normal weapon use as Somagu is. The biggest issue here is that Doom maps were not designed for them to work like this. The way you made weapon range work in itself is totally fine... if the maps were designed with these weapon mechanics in mind (though personally this kind of range system irks me regardless). The problem is that a ton of Doom maps were designed with the fact that you can use Doom's vanilla weapons with their effective range just like the vanilla game and the ammo, monster placement, weapon placement, etc are balanced with this fact. This is an issue with almost all mods to varying degrees but most mods make an effort to make things playable despite their design differences. Unfortunately, playing SGD can be impossible in some circumstances because your idea of weapon roles being forced into the design is entirely incompatible with many megawads.

A major example of this is the shotgun and SSG. In vanilla Doom you can literally use the shotgun to snipe enemies at pretty long ranges due to the low spread. The SSG can be used for crowd control of zombies at decent range. Both of these functions are rendered impossible due to SGD's range limitations. Another example is the chaingun. I understand the pistol replacement is meant to work as the sniper but often times, a map will just provide you with a chaingun to tap fire with which in vanilla, works fine as a sniper but just like the shotguns it has bafflingly short range.

There's a good reason games in general don't implement range the way this game does, too. There's a difference between making a weapon ineffective to use at range and making it literally impossible to use at range and making it impossible by making your hitscans vanish beyond a certain point is frustrating and really contrived. That's why shot spread exists as a mechanic and you can just make a weapon function badly at range by increasing its spread appropriately.

Sorry to sound harsh about my criticism but I really do like the idea of this mod. It's just that at the moment it can be borderline unplayable except in very specific circumstances where the map just so happens to fit it perfectly. Even if you made maps specifically for this mod it's still too frustrating to play.

Lastly, I have a minor issue with the feat based upgrade system which is that the mod is not transparent about this mechanic in terms of what enemies to kill, how many you already have killed, and how close you are to getting an upgrade. You should probably put this in the HUD or delegate this to a bind that brings up a screen that shows this.


I must admit that the main point of your criticism is completely understandable. But I feel I should explain why I designed the shotguns (and really, any weapon in the mod) the way they behave in the mod: you see, I didn't want the player to be able to use any weapon of their choosing in all possible combat scenarios. That is to say, the weapons are intentionally situational. The Rifle, as you figured, is chiefly intended for long-range work alongside the Argent Rifle. The shotguns, on the other hand, are meant for dealing with enemies at closer proximity, hence their limited range. And as disappointing as I know this will most likely sound, that's unlikely to change at this point. If I make any changes to the behavior of any weapons, they're only going to be minor tweaks. Buffing the shotguns to the point where you can snipe an enemy across the map with them isn't included in my plans.

Secondly, the reason the mod hasn't been transparent about the kill counts required for the upgrades thus far is because in a sense, I want to keep the player in suspense. Telling the player explicitly which upgrade they're likely to acquire next and how far they are from acquiring it would ruin the surprise. I've been contemplating adding a couple of help screens to sort of document the weapons and the upgrades available for each of them, though, which would be a v2.0 addition if it were to happen. But an in-game screen to display progress towards the upgrades is unfortunately unlikely, because once again, I want to retain at least that element of surprise.

With all that said, I do appreciate you giving SGD a spin. And I hope my explanations behind some of the design decisions I made are satisfactory.
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Re: [v1.4] Satanic Gameshow Deluxe

Postby Captain J » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:43 am

The gauge that allows you to do the special move and is different depends on how much you have is very clever and impressive. However, there are few problems that makes the player rather stagnant and indifferent:

First of all, the Shotguns in this mod works quite differently: It spreads much more widely, deals crapton of damage up close... And the bullets vanish in certain range. Of course, it's supposed to be weak and inaccurate in long-range. Also you can easily kill some strong mooks in point blank. But the range is unreasonably short, making both shotguns useless in most of the long-range firefight. I felt so underpowered when i got hit by a shotgun guy that drops the same shotgun i have in long distance.

Second, i think adding more special effects to each special moves would be nice. Since it's just using average sound effects we all know and love.

Third, some weapons' special move prevents you to move. It's about using the move wisely, but i honestly think it just don't go well with Vanilla Doom Firefight: Where the thing mostly goes hectic.


Despite all the problems, i actually enjoyed this mod and i think the concept is very clever and make it exciting!
Last edited by Captain J on Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [v1.4] Satanic Gameshow Deluxe

Postby MFG38 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:01 am

Captain J wrote:some weapons' special move prevents you stop moving. It's about using the move wisely, but i honestly think it just don't go well with Vanilla Doom Firefight: Where the thing mostly goes hectic.


That's an intentional design choice, so as to balance out some of the more powerful finishers. You're granted a brief period of invulnerability while a finisher is being performed anyway, so you can witness them in all their glory without the danger of dying in the middle of executing them.

Captain J wrote:Despite all the problems, i actually enjoyed this mod and i think the concept is very clever and make it exciting!


Thanks! c:
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Operating System: Windows 10/8.1/8/201x 64-bit
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Re: [v1.4] Satanic Gameshow Deluxe

Postby MFG38 » Sun May 09, 2021 8:17 am

It's been another preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty long while since I posted an update of any sort over here, but I figured now if ever would be a good time to let those who haven't completely forgotten about SGD know that work on v2.0 is still ongoing. The finish line looms decently close, though, and it may not take much longer for the new build to be finished. In fact, the finisher reworks are almost done, sans one last finisher rework. Once I get the last finisher rework in, the bulk of the remaining work henceforth will be converting the remaining parts of the ACS code to ZScript and fixing any game-breaking bugs I stumble upon.

I may or may not release a preview build of sorts once I implement the last finisher rework so that people can enjoy the new finishers without having to wait an indefinite amount of time for the real v2.0. If I do, you can expect it within the next week or two. I should emphasize, however, that the preview build, if I do end up releasing it, will primarily be released for the purpose of collecting feedback about the new finishers and reporting bugs that may have occurred. Chances are that the new finishers will see further tweaking, and there will likely be bugs of varying degrees of nastiness. For that reason, updating to v2.0 will be strongly recommended as soon as it comes out.

At any rate, I hope you're as excited as I am! Possible v2.0 preview build coming sometime this month - if not, the real v2.0 will most likely be ready to go before 2023.

Spoiler:
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Joined: 14 Apr 2019
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Operating System: Windows 10/8.1/8/201x 64-bit
OS Test Version: No (Using Stable Public Version)
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