Metroid: Demon Hunter - 1.5d, Beta and Github (1/7/22)

[Apteral10]

Just remembered that the map pack you gave with this mod doesn't seem to work properly (at least for me) is there something we should know?

[R4L]

Just remembered that the map pack you gave with this mod doesn't seem to work properly (at least for me) is there something we should know?

What exactly doesn't work?

[Apteral10]

Just remembered that the map pack you gave with this mod doesn't seem to work properly (at least for me) is there something we should know?

What exactly doesn't work?

Well when I boot up the map pack with the metroid dreadnought mod... The first map has no enemies or anything and it is basically incompleteable. Was this intended?

[R4L]

No, that is not intended!

Please make sure that you are running the map with all the add-ons that come with it. You should have a folder called "resources" that comes with the playable trailer. That has the needed add-ons to play CrazyWazy's campaign trailer.

If you want the latest version of my overhaul working with that, swap out the MDO-1.5c.pk3 with the latest beta from this thread.

[H3XM0D]

No, that is not intended!

Please make sure that you are running the map with all the add-ons that come with it. You should have a folder called "resources" that comes with the playable trailer. That has the needed add-ons to play CrazyWazy's campaign trailer.

If you want the latest version of my overhaul working with that, swap out the MDO-1.5c.pk3 with the latest beta from this thread.

At the risk of sounding like an utter buffoon, I believe they meant your map set released with this overhaul. The Playable Trailer (with it's own map set) does seem to work fine, with enemies and everything (though I can not locate the morph ball pickup to get through the tiny vent at the beginning lol).

What are we doing wrong?

[R4L]

Some clarification:

If you are playing with CrazyWazy's trailer, there is a secret in the first room that has enemies.

Regarding my overhaul: the only maps included with this are the original maps Terminus made and my Shinespark testing map. Bounty Hunt has no enemies and AFAIK was just another test map.

Overall, none of the maps included have enemies or a campaign so to speak. Training has a room where you can summon Space Pirates but that's it.

[R4L]

First post download link updated to fix a bug that spawned the BFG instead of the Chroma Storm.

[R4L]

Figured I should put this up, to save some confusion...

Missile Combos are separate items, and that means they won't naturally spawn in-game since they don't replace any items. However, you can spawn them yourself in the console by typing "summon" followed by any of these pickup names:

Code: Select all

PowerMissilePickup
WaveMissilePickup
WideShotPickup
SolarFlarePickup
IceSpreaderPickup
NovaFlashPickup
HyperBeamPickup
ChainsawBeamPickup

Here's what they look like:


Again, these were segregated for mappers to use. I've also added some dynamic lights to the Solar Flare missile combo, to light the way in darker areas!

As per usual, any bug reports or criticism is welcomed!

[R4L]

Yeah yeah, another bug fix update in first post:

-Fixed missile pickups being invisible and not being able to be picked up.
-Also fixed drop rates. Missiles dropped WAY too often, and health not enough.
-Music now no longer plays from the start after acquiring pickups for the first time.
-Beam GUI now invokes PowerTimeFreeze to aid in selection during combat. There is a 3 second delay however after exiting before you can open it again to prevent abuse.

Hopefully I can get some work done on a new beam next time... Until then, see you next mission!

[fakemai]

Are there any ideal monster mods to pair this with? Colourful Hell is my usual choice but it mixes badly because enemies drop too many missile tanks and not enough health, on top of this being one of the few such mods that is actually somewhat balanced. More fundamentally though it really does feel like it needs levels dedicated to it, in part because of the lack of ammo management. To some credit certain weapons do work better against different types of mobs, like the penetration of the Plasma Beam, and indirect fire with the Wave Beam, but it's a hard thing to balance, I actually wonder if the Super Metroid approach of combining them might've worked better. Lastly, the Morph Ball is a problem to acquire since it's on the Light Amp Visor, and those are not only rare generally, but non-existent in Plutonia, and there isn't a "start with" option for it. I also have no idea where the Varia Suit comes from but have seen it randomly with Demon Counterstrike. Never seen the Space Jump.

One thing I cannot fault though, is the technical quality of this mod. It's still impressive how many elements from different games can be squeezed into GZDoom, and faithfully.

[R4L]

Are there any ideal monster mods to pair this with? Colourful Hell is my usual choice but it mixes badly because enemies drop too many missile tanks and not enough health, on top of this being one of the few such mods that is actually somewhat balanced. More fundamentally though it really does feel like it needs levels dedicated to it, in part because of the lack of ammo management. To some credit certain weapons do work better against different types of mobs, like the penetration of the Plasma Beam, and indirect fire with the Wave Beam, but it's a hard thing to balance, I actually wonder if the Super Metroid approach of combining them might've worked better. Lastly, the Morph Ball is a problem to acquire since it's on the Light Amp Visor, and those are not only rare generally, but non-existent in Plutonia, and there isn't a "start with" option for it. I also have no idea where the Varia Suit comes from but have seen it randomly with Demon Counterstrike. Never seen the Space Jump.

One thing I cannot fault though, is the technical quality of this mod. It's still impressive how many elements from different games can be squeezed into GZDoom, and faithfully.

Thanks for the feedback!

Yeah, pickups kind of suck right now. My plan is to replace some vanilla items with random spawners so that every item has a chance to be acquired, as a lot of them currently can only be obtained by summoning through the console. The Varia Suit replaces the Rad Suit. As for the Morph Ball, I could make it replace something else. I don't play Plutonia often (only when I want a real challenge) so I was not aware that light amps were not there at all.

There is a campaign being developed for this, and that's mostly why these items are the way they are; they're meant for mappers, to be placed in their maps carefully. You can find out more here or on our Discord.

I can look into compatibility with Colorful Hell, because without monster/level mods for Dreadnought, I can see how the gameplay gets stale quick when everything dies fast and presents no challenge. Enemy replacements is a goal at some point, although not likely to happen anytime soon. You are welcome to try any monster mods and report the results.

[TheBeardedJedi]

Are stackable beams (ex: Ice/Wave/Plasma) going to be brought in at some point?

[R4L]

Are stackable beams (ex: Ice/Wave/Plasma) going to be brought in at some point?

Maybe... I'm not sure yet because the arsenal now is pretty OP. However, if you want to see it in action now, in game, open the console and

Code: Select all

give CanBeamStack

While you're in the beam selection GUI, drag a beam onto another that is highlighted to get a different weapon. Term had an idea on this and I might expand upon it.

[fakemai]

Yeah I know a campaign is planned and I'm excited to see it. Like, in Metroid Prime all of its tools were situational for various reasons, but as just a Doom gameplay mod all you can really do is try to make the different tools useful in different combat situations. Some extra thoughts on balance in that context.

I believe, at least from observation, that the power-up dropping is monster-dependent? I'm honestly not sure if it shouldn't just be standard across the board with only bosses dropping a mess because I frequently get ammo profits even with the latest version. Super Missiles and Power Bombs need to be a lot rarer for how strong they are. I'm only vaguely aware there's many ways to handle item replacements and drops but I've only ever used the RandomSpawner ones, and obviously some will depend on features that aren't in all ZDoom flavours if you care about that. If it helps I know Colourful Hell's random item definitions are in the root DECORATE file and you can turn them off in the mod options.

In general, de-coupling the item types from specific items would be a good idea because even for gameplay-changing items their usage is usually skewed by different maps. To demo both extremes I'd use La Tailor Girl where there's 5 different spawn types for clothing, and even the basic one can drop anything so that plays well with most maps. But the blueprint items for crafting a specific clothing type appear sometimes on player corpses and those are almost non-existent in Doom 2.

I'm not sure how to balance Power Beam, it's kind of superceded by Wave Beam, and the most useful is Plasma despite its shorter range. Ice Beam I would use except that frozen enemies don't drop items. Long Beam, as I understand it, was more of a Deathmatch addition in the original mod and I generally don't use it though it's not bad for sniping distant enemies. I turn off the BFG equivalent as it is.

As far as ommissions from the original, the visors stand out. I doubt X-ray is feasable, but Thermal could just be like the standard Doom one given the "enhanced night vision" option, and Scan could be something like Target-Spy where it just prints the stats of whatever's in the crosshair. Also the other 3 charge combos like the flamethrower on the Plasma Beam. Invulnerability screams opportunity for something like the Phazon Beam or Hyper Beam: an opportunity to utterly dominate everything for a limited time. Grapple Beam, I'd love to see that as a movement option if it's less "floaty" than Prime, or even to use for flinging enemies.

Finally, bugs. The Varia Suit doesn't seem to remove floor damage. The Speed Booster frequently bonks on enemies. It's also INSANELY BROKEN. Cathartic, especially with Universal Gibs, but still. I'd almost go as far as to question if it should be in the mod, at the very least it needs to drain your energy or something to balance it out like Shinesparking apparently does. I can't figure out how to actually trigger it after ducking.

EDIT: Additional bugs. Space Jump and Speed Booster don't convert to missiles if you have them. There's also an extremely annoying issue with some weapon hitboxes that can result in walls/enemies next to you tanking the shot. It's largely on the Plasma Beam and the Super Missiles. Thankfully Metroid doesn't do splash damage. Incidentally the Power Bombs feel amazing to use.

[R4L]

Yeah I know a campaign is planned and I'm excited to see it. Like, in Metroid Prime all of its tools were situational for various reasons, but as just a Doom gameplay mod all you can really do is try to make the different tools useful in different combat situations. Some extra thoughts on balance in that context.

I believe, at least from observation, that the power-up dropping is monster-dependent? I'm honestly not sure if it shouldn't just be standard across the board with only bosses dropping a mess because I frequently get ammo profits even with the latest version. Super Missiles and Power Bombs need to be a lot rarer for how strong they are. I'm only vaguely aware there's many ways to handle item replacements and drops but I've only ever used the RandomSpawner ones, and obviously some will depend on features that aren't in all ZDoom flavours if you care about that. If it helps I know Colourful Hell's random item definitions are in the root DECORATE file and you can turn them off in the mod options.

Yeah, it's monster dependent, as defined in an array. I played a lot last night, and you do have a point. The enemy drops are random spawners, so it shouldn't be too bad to reduce the rate of certain drops or make it CVar-dependent.

In general, de-coupling the item types from specific items would be a good idea because even for gameplay-changing items their usage is usually skewed by different maps. To demo both extremes I'd use La Tailor Girl where there's 5 different spawn types for clothing, and even the basic one can drop anything so that plays well with most maps. But the blueprint items for crafting a specific clothing type appear sometimes on player corpses and those are almost non-existent in Doom 2.

Agreed! I've been having some difficulty getting a balance across as far as item replacements. I want this to be a nice mod for mappers to be able to use, but at the same time I'm also trying to keep anyone who just wants to play on some wads in mind too. My idea was to re-define some pickups because right now the replacements don't make much sense (as was pointed out before, Morph Ball replaces light amp, which isn't present at all in Plutonia) as well as using some random spawners for some of the more rarer Doom powerups so every item has a chance to be picked up, and if the player already has it, then something else they don't have spawns in place instead.

I'm not sure how to balance Power Beam, it's kind of superceded by Wave Beam, and the most useful is Plasma despite its shorter range. Ice Beam I would use except that frozen enemies don't drop items. Long Beam, as I understand it, was more of a Deathmatch addition in the original mod and I generally don't use it though it's not bad for sniping distant enemies. I turn off the BFG equivalent as it is.

Power Beam is weak, but a charge shot still does pretty nice damage, so it's not entirely useless after. I've thought about making certain enemies weak to specific beams, but that will probably wait until there's a dedicated monster pack (yeah, one can dream...) but I'm open to suggestions.

As far as ommissions from the original, the visors stand out. I doubt X-ray is feasable, but Thermal could just be like the standard Doom one given the "enhanced night vision" option, and Scan could be something like Target-Spy where it just prints the stats of whatever's in the crosshair. Also the other 3 charge combos like the flamethrower on the Plasma Beam. Invulnerability screams opportunity for something like the Phazon Beam or Hyper Beam: an opportunity to utterly dominate everything for a limited time. Grapple Beam, I'd love to see that as a movement option if it's less "floaty" than Prime, or even to use for flinging enemies.

I've talked about visors before and I'm definitely interested in making a Scan Visor and a Thermal Visor. X-Ray Visor could be doable I think, but I don't know how useful it would be. I've also thought about a limited time weapon pickup but I'd probably save it for multiplayer, as the Chroma Storm hyper beam charge combo decimates everything well enough. Grapple Beam is also a planned addition at some point.

Finally, bugs. The Varia Suit doesn't seem to remove floor damage. The Speed Booster frequently bonks on enemies. It's also INSANELY BROKEN. Cathartic, especially with Universal Gibs, but still. I'd almost go as far as to question if it should be in the mod, at the very least it needs to drain your energy or something to balance it out like Shinesparking apparently does. I can't figure out how to actually trigger it after ducking.

EDIT: Additional bugs. Space Jump and Speed Booster don't convert to missiles if you have them. There's also an extremely annoying issue with some weapon hitboxes that can result in walls/enemies next to you tanking the shot. It's largely on the Plasma Beam and the Super Missiles. Thankfully Metroid doesn't do splash damage. Incidentally the Power Bombs feel amazing to use.

Shinespark is triggered by holding jump and run after a successful charge. There's a test map included to try it out to get your bearings. For Speed Booster, I don't know what to do honestly. If I make it stronger, then it's too OP. I can't give it +THRUACTORS like Shinespark because then more maps will break. I could have it drain energy I suppose.

As far as the Varia Suit, that's intentional for some hazards, but I should make it immune to slime at least. Space Jump and Speed Booster will convert to something else now, I just kept forgetting to do it. As far as beams and missiles being blocked by walls, this has been a problem even in the original release of the mod, and I don't know how to prevent it without messing with offsets for weapons, which would affect quite a lot. If anyone has suggestions for that, I'm all ears.