Guncaster Vindicated 3.4.6

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Dinosaur_Nerd
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Re: Guncaster Vindicated [Release]

Post by Dinosaur_Nerd »

AvzinElkein wrote:Do I need the original Guncaster to play this?
No, this is a standalone mod. You only need DOOM2.wad and GZDoom 3.4.1 to run this .pk3
Further details and instructions should be covered in the Frequently asked questions in the original post in this thread
Fureyon
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Re: Guncaster Vindicated [Release]

Post by Fureyon »

Sigh... I had written a huge point-by-point review on this before it got lost due to session timeout I guess. So here's a much shorter version:

Played through Hell on Earth. Hexen, Heretic and Strife don't seem to contain new monsters or campaigns, so I won't be playing those with this version of Guncaster.

1) Mana Regen is crap, Regen CVAR does nothing, Extreme is the same as Default.
2) I miss several of the removed spells.
3) Heavy Stompers useless compared to popping a Berserk pack and roundhousing.
4) Draugh has a timer, the cooldown is 12 minutes, no icon to indicate when it can be used again (bug or oversight?). Only useful once per map unless you're slow or map is huge.
5) Stick to using the powersuit, draughsuit requires several artifacts and risking yourself in melee to upgrade. All it does is make you taller and grant you infinite Berserk without the resistance or HP regen.
6) Alchemy Lab has the wrong description, default powerup timer is 45 seconds, with max Alchemy it's 60. Still says it boosts 15 seconds per level. Stay away from it, buy more powerups instead.
7) Dynamite, Old Dreadful don't get more ammo when getting backpack.
8) Commend you for going through all those monsters and adapting them to Guncaster whilst tweaking their resists and weaknesses.
9) Did not notice any monster placement alteration in HoE, only story bits and music.
10) Black chests are great!
11) Would like this more if you had separated the monsters and campaign from your pack to make it available with other Guncaster variants, if any other variants happen to be made.

Was fun but I still prefer the original because of the missing spells.
I suggest you update the topic title when/if you update the pack, got lucky and guessed you updated to 1.1 today instead of it just being someone commenting on the mod pack.
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Re: Guncaster Vindicated [Release]

Post by Dinosaur_Nerd »

Fureyon wrote:I suggest you update the topic title when/if you update the pack, got lucky and guessed you updated to 1.1 today instead of it just being someone commenting on the mod pack.
Dinosaur_Nerd wrote:Just updated this mod to patch in the fixes for Guncaster 3.1
I've also updated a few other things to ensure they work properly, my apologizes if this screws up any save files you might have currently running with the Vindicated Campaign.
1.1 has been released as of 7/20/2018 7:30 P.M. CST
You can find the bug fixes that have been applied on page 2 of this thread.
I updated the title though, didn't think about that at the time.
Fureyon wrote: Played through Hell on Earth. Hexen, Heretic and Strife don't seem to contain new monsters or campaigns, so I won't be playing those with this version of Guncaster.

1) Mana Regen is crap, Regen CVAR does nothing, Extreme is the same as Default.
2) I miss several of the removed spells.
3) Heavy Stompers useless compared to popping a Berserk pack and roundhousing.
4) Draugh has a timer, the cooldown is 12 minutes, no icon to indicate when it can be used again (bug or oversight?). Only useful once per map unless you're slow or map is huge.
5) Stick to using the powersuit, draughsuit requires several artifacts and risking yourself in melee to upgrade. All it does is make you taller and grant you infinite Berserk without the resistance or HP regen.
6) Alchemy Lab has the wrong description, default powerup timer is 45 seconds, with max Alchemy it's 60. Still says it boosts 15 seconds per level. Stay away from it, buy more powerups instead.
7) Dynamite, Old Dreadful don't get more ammo when getting backpack.
8) Commend you for going through all those monsters and adapting them to Guncaster whilst tweaking their resists and weaknesses.
9) Did not notice any monster placement alteration in HoE, only story bits and music.
10) Black chests are great!
11) Would like this more if you had separated the monsters and campaign from your pack to make it available with other Guncaster variants, if any other variants happen to be made.

Thanks for playing! Now to address some of your concerns:
I did not design this mod to be a Power-Fantasy in any way. I apologize if you got that idea. I designed this mod to mix the Guncaster weapons and overall fun, with a seriously challenging gameplay experience.

If you're interested in changes to strife, I'll be applying some soon, no time frames, but I'll make an announcement when I'm done. Don't expect anything fancy, just applications of the special effects I like, such as projectiles to replace hitscan and enemies that fall down when kicked.

As for heretic and hexen, no comment at this time. I'll make a post on the FAQ about it soon.

1) This is addressed in the updated version 1.1 that was uploaded and is downloadable as of 7:30 yesterday.
2) I am considering bringing back the threadcutter spell.
3) I think berserk is meant to be much much more powerful consumable item on a timer than a persistent ability augmentor like Heavy Duty Stompers.
4) Thanks for the report of the issues regarding the missing cooldown completion prompts for the DraughTome, I forgot about that, this was a lot of work to do in a very short amount of time. There is currently an icon that slowly fills as the cooldown completes, however I will be adding a text prompt to let you know when it's actually done.
5) I'll upload a Hardest difficulty no deaths run with the draughsuit soon, I prefer it over the powersuit.
6) "buy more powerups instead." - I would personally do this in the Official Guncaster as well.
7) This is intentional for Balance reasons. If this still doesn't make sense, I will be explaining it in the FAQ.
8) & 10) Thank you, I worked hard on the monsters and I'm glad you like the progressive weapon chests.
9) I did most of my work on the E-Day beta, I commented on this in my original post. Only the story elements and music were ported (as well as some textures and the added TV Screens in map 13, along with some scripts for boss HP meters), I look forward to being able to release my edits to E-Day when Mark is finished with it.
11) I have only asked Mark for his permission to include my edited HellOnEarthStarterPack with this mod. I'm not going to just re-release his map pack on its own. Separating the monsters and maintaining compatibility with all future Guncaster mods (if there ever will be any) is a seriously large amount of work that I will never have time for. As for compatibility with the official Guncaster, that is possible in the very (and I mean VERY) distant future.
Fureyon wrote:Was fun but I still prefer the original because of the missing spells.
The original is a great mod, but there are certain things about it that are just incompatible with what I'm going for.
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Re: Guncaster Vindicated 1.1

Post by Fureyon »

Thanks for replying Dino!

I think see what you're going for now, maybe I just expected to be challenged in a different way, regardless this was just my opinion.
If your ultimate goal was to have fun with the weapons I think you would have benefitted more from fully commiting and just removing all spells period. Perhaps in the future you could do so and add the elemental effects to the weapons themselves? If not, maybe a monster that is only vulnerable to being gunned down when affected by spells might make it more interesting. Dunno if that's possible...

I'd be very interested in running Strife with revamped enemies, maybe even with variations in weaponry.

My point with the whole Heavy Stompers thing is that it requires RNG for you to first obtain it as well as the gold investment, you're better off just sticking to consumables due to how often you can actually stomp and what it does. While I agree that one is permanent and one isn't, you have to bear in mind how much you get for the actual investment in maintaining it. Perhaps you could improve it by adding some other gimmick to the stomp? Maybe keep causing pain to flinch monsters in an area? As it stands, it is risky and slow compared to a roundhouse kick, and serves the same function in the end. This is what I was looking at when commenting on it, the function it serves in the original is a new (very OP) type of attack, here it keeps enemies away. If it knocked them down or stunned them for longer, I would consider using it more often. Flying and stomping isn't something I do often, even in the original Guncaster, and even then only in very open maps. The shorter jump kinda killed the idea for me, and by the time I got to the larger levels I favored the Augur over sticking my red ass in the middle of a mob.

The Alchemy Lab in the original mod is worth it because of how much duration you get for each level. To see things my way you'd have to look at it in terms of investment, basically getting more bang for your buck.
Max level in normal Guncaster means you get 75 extra seconds, that's more than buying a new powerup for an incremental 45 seconds. It starts to break even at level 3 when each powerup counts for two and beyond that you're getting "more powerup for less money" if it makes sense. Powerups aren't expensive by design, so using them both here and in the original Guncaster is definitely the goto strategy for dealing with hard situations. It's just that in Vindicated, the overall gain you get from spending 6000 gold on these per level is kinda wasted when each powerup costs 2500. Perhaps it would be better in a mapset where you need to rely on invulnerability to get through places?

I'll look forward to your video. After using both, the powersuit just felt superior in most ways. Perhaps you could make Draugh more attractive by adding some kind of resource consumption for the powersuit? Maybe Mana? It would feel more interesting and less powerful if I couldn't use it indefinitely for virtually no drawback. As it currently is, it completely blows Draugh out of the water, at least for me.

I think I can understand why you aren't upgrading Dynamite and Old Dreadful with backpacks, I just thought it was a bug.

I was kinda confused on your comments about E-day, so I'll look forward to when you can finally released the edited E-day. I'll happily give your mod another go then :)

If your purpose was to challenge the player with systems similar to what the original Guncaster offers, then you have achieved it. I played to the finish in the second to last difficulty and died several times due to my overreliance on things that are just not there or work differently in your mod. If anything I was forced to look for different solutions to my "problems", though once I got the powersuit things evened out a little :)

One more thing, not sure if you fixed it already, you have a typo in HOESP09.

Code: Select all

"You can smell the charged sent of magic in the air"
That should read scent.
theviolator
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Re: Guncaster Vindicated 1.1

Post by theviolator »

This is a great mod overall, but I feel that attempting to do things like curate the spell and item selections to your personal tastes has more of an alienating effect. Like others have stated, I understand what you were going for, but being arbitrarily limited in this way just makes me wish I was playing the base version of Guncaster. If I want to limit myself to certain things, I will (and often do) do so. I don't need to have it forced upon me.

What I woud suggest then is this. Perhaps release an optional patch (or mutator as per Sargeant Mark IV's parlance) that restores spells and items present in the original version while still retaining all the new tweaks and features for those who want the best of both worlds? Just a suggestion, and thanks for the effort you put into this.

EDIT: To clarify, it's not that I find this to be too hard as some have complained. In fact, I tend to play on medium/high difficulty and most of the time I don't even need to use weapons except for the occasional boss or long-range hitscanner. Rather, I view missing options as a universal negative. I love the polish you've added, just not what you've decided to pull out.
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Re: Guncaster Vindicated 1.1

Post by Dinosaur_Nerd »

Fureyon wrote:One more thing, not sure if you fixed it already, you have a typo in HOESP09.

Code: Select all

"You can smell the charged sent of magic in the air"
That should read scent.
DOH! ... Yes that's a typo, thanks for catching it.
Fureyon wrote:Thanks for replying Dino!

I think see what you're going for now, maybe I just expected to be challenged in a different way, regardless this was just my opinion.
If your ultimate goal was to have fun with the weapons I think you would have benefitted more from fully commiting and just removing all spells period. Perhaps in the future you could do so and add the elemental effects to the weapons themselves? If not, maybe a monster that is only vulnerable to being gunned down when affected by spells might make it more interesting. Dunno if that's possible...
You're very welcome!

Spell effects to weapons has already been done with the longhorn, and I'm working on a new weapon that does something similar. That's as far as I intend to take it.
I'm not removing spells completely, just because they're not as overpowered as they are in Official guncaster does not make them useless, far from it. My video will explain this better, I find thunderstruck, skullfire, and Scourgebreath to be the most useful of all the spells when I'm playing, your favorites may be different. Upper level spells such as hammersmite, armageddon, and Annihilation are good room sweepers or utility spells (hammer smite heals you for goodness sake...).

Fureyon wrote:I'd be very interested in running Strife with revamped enemies, maybe even with variations in weaponry.
I'm not planning on adding any new weapons other than what pillow has already done (longhorn/strucker/pulverizer/etc... effects that come from the enemy soldiers), other than changing their damage source from hitscan to projectiles, giving the player a chance to out-play their enemies, rather than them just firing and you getting hit at the speed of light (or speed of a game tick, whichever you prefer).

I'm also adding my style of pain states as I said before. So when you kick them, they don't just get pushed away, they actually fall down.

About the stompers:
I'm sorry, I'm probably not changing them, I like them as they are. That's my personal take on it. I can stomp point blank on a hellknight with only one stomper and kill it instantly on top difficulty, that's plenty overpowered in my book.

About the Alchemy lab:
I'll drop the price on it dramatically.
Fureyon wrote:the powersuit just felt superior in most ways. Perhaps you could make Draugh more attractive by adding some kind of resource consumption for the powersuit? Maybe Mana? It would feel more interesting and less powerful if I couldn't use it indefinitely for virtually no drawback. As it currently is, it completely blows Draugh out of the water, at least for me.
A little insight (and some hard numbers) regarding the powersuit and draughsuit.
Spoiler:
Fureyon wrote:I think I can understand why you aren't upgrading Dynamite and Old Dreadful with backpacks, I just thought it was a bug.
I can understand that, there were a lot of oversights like this in Brutal Guncaster. In mine this change is intentional, and I appreciate you trying to help me find bugs.
Fureyon wrote:If your purpose was to challenge the player with systems similar to what the original Guncaster offers, then you have achieved it. I played to the finish in the second to last difficulty and died several times due to my overreliance on things that are just not there or work differently in your mod. If anything I was forced to look for different solutions to my "problems"
I'm glad it made you think, I feel like that's something missing in games today.
Fureyon wrote:though once I got the powersuit things evened out a little :)
As it should, finally coming upon powersuit when you really need that playstyle will definitely give you a sudden spike in power that feels really good. Once you start fighting Cyberbarons and Cyberknights things start to get reigned back in I hope, if not I should probably make them a little stronger.
theviolator wrote:This is a great mod overall, but I feel that attempting to do things like curate the spell and item selections to your personal tastes has more of an alienating effect. Like others have stated, I understand what you were going for, but being arbitrarily limited in this way just makes me wish I was playing the base version of Guncaster. If I want to limit myself to certain things, I will (and often do) do so. I don't need to have it forced upon me.
On missing spells:
That's a pretty reasonable suggestion, I'm going to add a cheat to the next patch of this mod that will allow you to cheat and unlock the missing spells (yes all the missing spells) so that you can buy them from the shop. This removes any need for a tangled mess of mutators. I hope that is sufficient.
Spoiler:

On Items:
Not mucking with items. The items I've changed interact with player code and ACS in a way that I do not have the time to re-code, sorry. The only item that is actually missing is splittershield, and I've replaced it with a spell augmentor that actually makes you invulnerable when you cast a big spell like annihilation or armageddon. I might consider re-writing a lot of things to bring it back in the future, but it's still cheating in my eye and is very much something that I don't consider a priority at this time.
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Re: Guncaster Vindicated 1.1

Post by theviolator »

Dinosaur_Nerd wrote:
On Items:
Not mucking with items. The items I've changed interact with player code and ACS in a way that I do not have the time to re-code, sorry. The only item that is actually missing is splittershield, and I've replaced it with a spell augmentor that actually makes you invulnerable when you cast a big spell like annihilation or armageddon. I might consider re-writing a lot of things to bring it back in the future, but it's still cheating in my eye and is very much something that I don't consider a priority at this time.
Fair enough. Just having all the spells back is a workable compromise as far as I'm concerned. That's the one issue that was preventing me from fully enjoying your take on this mod, so this is very much appreciated.
Last edited by theviolator on Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guncaster Vindicated 1.1

Post by ate0ate »

I really like your idea of allowing the missing spells to be toggled on/off, even if it is a bit cheaty. I know its weird, but my OCD is triggered by the spells not being there yet my OCD is severe enough that I would not turn the spells on as they do not fit the creator's intended design for the mod. I know it makes no sense, but thems the facts lol. Great mod by the way:)
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Re: Guncaster Vindicated 1.1

Post by Fureyon »

I'm all for toggable spell list limitations.

Wasn't aware of the hard numbers for draughsuit, on the powersuit I was aware, but that boost barely made enough of a difference for me to notice. Had other things to worry about rather than count how many bullets it takes to put down a baron.
Anyway, as you said, it's a question of playstyle. I personally like to play a battlemage character in most games where one is available, if not I usually default to mage. So you can imagine why missing the spells was a point I sorta focused on.
Given my options at the time, the powersuit suit my needs best. Also I prefer the Bishop's super punches, which is part of the reason I appreciate the speedier punches :)

For my playstyle, Cyberbarons and Cyberknights didn't give me much trouble beyond the initial surprise attack when they started appearing. That said I am more of a weapons and powerups kind of guy and for the most part I locked them down using a combination of Dynamites and the Augur. If I had mana to spare, the dragonshout kept them at bay. Out of all the spells to remove, I'm surprised you kept the dragonshout in, that spell can be used to kill enemies behind walls and pretty much cleans up a whole row of beasties no problem.

I'm not sure how you could make them stronger without making them outright bullet sponges or cheapening their shots though. Unless you can tweak their AI they will most likely remain just as difficult. Much like all Doom monsters, they are exploitable once you figure out what ways they can get you.

Found another typo, didn't notice it the first time, but in HOESP10:

Code: Select all

"to extending your odessy further."
"Odessy" should read Odyssey
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Rheap
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Re: Guncaster Vindicated 1.1

Post by Rheap »

I find a little trouble when you play this mod with some WADs with tons of monsters.

The game LAGS as fuck, barely i see a 1-3 fps when a map have more than 600-800 monsters (Sunlust for example have 6-7 maps with 1500-2100 monsters) and also if i didn't shoot, the lag comes. Toaster mode On, Gore Off and particles Off, unfortunately seems to not doesn't work. My hardware is a i5 2400 and a RX480 and i play more heavier games with no problems.

I know is not your fault, but a Doom engine limit and i want only to report this.
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Re: Guncaster Vindicated 1.1

Post by theviolator »

I have encountered one apparent bug when using dynamite. I am occasionally unable to light/throw it even though I clearly have some in my inventory. Sometimes this bug is intermittent and sometimes it doesn't seem to happen at all. For reference, I was using no other wads/pk3s and was playing the included campaign.
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Re: Guncaster Vindicated 1.1

Post by Valherran »

Rheap wrote:I find a little trouble when you play this mod with some WADs with tons of monsters.

The game LAGS as fuck, barely i see a 1-3 fps when a map have more than 600-800 monsters (Sunlust for example have 6-7 maps with 1500-2100 monsters) and also if i didn't shoot, the lag comes. Toaster mode On, Gore Off and particles Off, unfortunately seems to not doesn't work. My hardware is a i5 2400 and a RX480 and i play more heavier games with no problems.

I know is not your fault, but a Doom engine limit and i want only to report this.
That lag might have something to do with the Brutal Doom style enemies being present. It probably won't lag like that if the normal enemies were present.
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Re: Guncaster Vindicated 1.1

Post by Rowsol »

theviolator wrote:I have encountered one apparent bug when using dynamite. I am occasionally unable to light/throw it even though I clearly have some in my inventory. Sometimes this bug is intermittent and sometimes it doesn't seem to happen at all. For reference, I was using no other wads/pk3s and was playing the included campaign.
I can think of two things that may or may not be obvious. There's a 10 second timer when you use the quick throw. The strat dynamite takes 75 mana to throw. (these are OG things, this mod may have changed these values. I know the strat dynamite threw me for a loop the first time I couldn't throw it)
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Re: Guncaster Vindicated 1.1

Post by theviolator »

Rowsol wrote:
theviolator wrote:I have encountered one apparent bug when using dynamite. I am occasionally unable to light/throw it even though I clearly have some in my inventory. Sometimes this bug is intermittent and sometimes it doesn't seem to happen at all. For reference, I was using no other wads/pk3s and was playing the included campaign.
I can think of two things that may or may not be obvious. There's a 10 second timer when you use the quick throw. The strat dynamite takes 75 mana to throw. (these are OG things, this mod may have changed these values. I know the strat dynamite threw me for a loop the first time I couldn't throw it)
I thought of this as well, but this occured without the use of quick throw. Also, while the mana requirement makes sense, I tried switching back to normal dynamite and was unable to throw that either. Perhaps it was just a fluke.
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Re: Guncaster Vindicated 1.1

Post by Dinosaur_Nerd »

Updating to 1.2 today.

There was a difficulty issue I forgot to address on the 16th map and I felt like that needed to be patched asap, so here it is.
The new cheat has been applied, to use the cheat spells open the console and type the following:
Spoiler:
Obviously SV_Cheats must be true, you'll need to set this in advance if you want to cheat on the top two difficulties.
Once you have entered the cheat, the missing spells will be available in the store. Their prices are unchanged from official guncaster.

Here is the full change Log:
Spoiler:
Fureyon wrote: "Odessy" should read Odyssey
Fixed, thanks again.
Rheap wrote:I find a little trouble when you play this mod with some WADs with tons of monsters.

The game LAGS as fuck, barely i see a 1-3 fps when a map have more than 600-800 monsters (Sunlust for example have 6-7 maps with 1500-2100 monsters) and also if i didn't shoot, the lag comes. Toaster mode On, Gore Off and particles Off, unfortunately seems to not doesn't work. My hardware is a i5 2400 and a RX480 and i play more heavier games with no problems.

I know is not your fault, but a Doom engine limit and i want only to report this.
If you can give me exactly which levels are causing the issue in the map pack I can run some tests and try to see how to deal with the FPS lag. If it's something to do with the monsters, I might actually be able to correct it. If the level is just overloaded like NUTS.wad, that's the responsibility of the levels designer.

I've already dealt with issues where the brutal doom stuff included in this mod causes lag when working with E-Day maps, especially map EDAY19 where there are many many monsters and soldiers fighting at the start. I added the Toaster mode effect to all monsters to make this map playable. I'm sure there is something else I can do to make it even more accommodating even to slaughtermaps, but NUTS.wad will probably never run properly, it runs badly with official guncaster, and depending on your hardware may run badly even on nothing more than DOOM2.wad.
(This is a VERY big maybe btw, I might be able to make them work better, but absolutely no guarantees. When you provide me the levels that are causing issues, I will test. In the meantime you can feel free to test Sunlust using the "Old School" monsters if you like).

On a side note, this mod (Guncaster Vindicated) does not work well with map packs that have too many monsters (like Maps of Chaos). They lead to a gold bloat where you become so overpowered that you are just unstoppable and can actually start each level by just buying Extremespheres with all the gold you are swimming in.
theviolator wrote:I have encountered one apparent bug when using dynamite. I am occasionally unable to light/throw it even though I clearly have some in my inventory. Sometimes this bug is intermittent and sometimes it doesn't seem to happen at all. For reference, I was using no other wads/pk3s and was playing the included campaign.
I need a repeatable way to test this. I have never encountered this bug and without a sure fire way to produce it, I can't do anything about it. The Dynamite is almost exactly the same as Official guncaster with changes only to the damage numbers.
ate0ate wrote:I really like your idea of allowing the missing spells to be toggled on/off, even if it is a bit cheaty. I know its weird, but my OCD is triggered by the spells not being there yet my OCD is severe enough that I would not turn the spells on as they do not fit the creator's intended design for the mod. I know it makes no sense, but thems the facts lol. Great mod by the way:)
Thanks! I'm glad you like it.
Using the spells I have removed by default is cheating, so I really recommend you leave them off if you want to experience this mod the way that works best.
Fureyon wrote:If I had mana to spare, the dragonshout kept them at bay. Out of all the spells to remove, I'm surprised you kept the dragonshout in, that spell can be used to kill enemies behind walls and pretty much cleans up a whole row of beasties no problem.
I really like the way the spell works, it makes sense to me and I just gave it a very high mana cost and made it rare (I've only found it once in my playthroughs). It's best to compare this to Annihilation, Apocalypse, and Hammersmite in power.
I wasn't aware that it goes through walls, I'll do some more testing and see if I can deal with that. If I can't, I'll probably re-balance it in some other way. I honestly need to do more tests on this spell in general, it's pretty complex compared to the others.


In other news:
About to start making a hardest difficulty no-deaths run of the Vindicated Campaign. The entire map pack is rather long... so this video will likely be much longer than my previous no-deaths run of The Ultimate Doom, not sure if I should keep it all as one big vid or separate it into multiple 1 hour videos.
Strife stuff will come in the future, I may wait until after my next project to release that. I feel like what I was about to do was just not enough, but honestly I'm just not sure what all I want to do with it yet, or if projectiles and "falling down" bad guys is all it really needs. More to come in the future.
Starting work on some wierd texture stuff that results again from Extermination Day compatibility. This doesn't affect gameplay in any way, just needs polish.
Working on bringing back a weapon from the beta, needs a lot more work before I'll be satisfied with it.

Thank you all so much for helping me improve this, it means a lot to see you folks interested.

Respectfully,
-Dino
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