[WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.7c

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Gabbuz85
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5f Alpha [FLAMETHROWER

Post by Gabbuz85 »

this is perfect to play with torment & torture
Chloroxite
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5f Alpha [FLAMETHROWER

Post by Chloroxite »

May I also suggest a new name? Sun Damage Omen sounds weird. Perhaps Solar Omen?
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DevilBlackDeath
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5f Alpha [FLAMETHROWER

Post by DevilBlackDeath »

Soooo, Brutal Doom if it was actually fun and not a mash up of Doom, Mortal Kombat and CoD =D

Just kidding, this looks quite interesting, gotta give this a try some day soon !
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Matt
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5f Alpha [FLAMETHROWER

Post by Matt »

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TheRailgunner
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5f Alpha [FLAMETHROWER

Post by TheRailgunner »

I really like how Sun Damage Omen feels - the sounds and effects work really well together. The only nitpick I really have is that player projectiles are pretty slow - you have to actively lead enemies from any sufficient range - while not a bad thing on its own, I've noticed that it's really easy to die before your bullets reach their target.

EDIT: I decided to test it with headshots.
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DoukDouk
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.5f Alpha [FLAMETHROWER

Post by DoukDouk »

TheRailgunner wrote:I really like how Sun Damage Omen feels - the sounds and effects work really well together. The only nitpick I really have is that player projectiles are pretty slow - you have to actively lead enemies from any sufficient range - while not a bad thing on its own, I've noticed that it's really easy to die before your bullets reach their target.
Thank you! You'll be glad to know that bullet speed is now totally adjustable from the options. :D

The first version to use ZScript has been uploaded! It was... Surprisingly painless. Probably TOO painless.

Download: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6y8i ... 1BkaldRQ2c

Changelog:
Spoiler:
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Matt
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.6d Alpha [ZSCRIPT, BAB

Post by Matt »

Looking forward to the monster buffs!

Way too easy to kill a spider mastermind with a fully loaded flamethrower and maybe a bit too easy to kill a cyberdemon with a spider mastermind.
Spoiler: weapon balance bullshit
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Captain J
 
 
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.6d Alpha [ZSCRIPT, BAB

Post by Captain J »

Yeah, it's very easy to kill SMM with Flamethrower. It literally pain-locking the poor guy... Except it takes too much time.

Anyway HOT DAMN, now this is good shit! Had fun playing this mod and i really love weapons looks like they're actually solar-powered! But of course, i've got some problems to tell;

- Those pallets... Coming out of every single guns looks not powerful enough, if you tell me. But don't get me wrong. I know they looks kinda powerful, but something is not enough. Perhaps add them a trail or something?

- Sometimes i can't kill brown pinkies in point-blank shot with SSG unless i get super-very closer to them. Not bad overall, but it kinda grinds my gear.

Speaking of which, i can't kill Cacodemons with two rockets either. But no biggie.

- Solar Flamethrower is kinda weak. Yeah, it spews flame like a minigun, but still it takes lot of time to kill medium enemies with this weapon. Yet its projectile has no Decal.

- Solar Propulsor is strong overall, but would be very powerful and neat if it had much loud firing sound effect and kickass scorch decal.


So yeah. That's about it. I really love the weapons' concepts like Shotgun with Flamethrower. That's very new and interesting thing to see. And i also like the Daikatana HUD as well, if i'm right!
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DoukDouk
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.6d Alpha [ZSCRIPT, BAB

Post by DoukDouk »

I really appreciate the input! I agree that the Solar Propulsor felt kind of weird when you hit anything other than a gibbable enemy, but mostly that was because I couldn't figure out how to get A_Railattack to use a puff. Now I fixed that though, so the next update should have a much beefier Solar Propulsor.

I actually nerfed the SSG in this mod since I thought it was OP that it fires nearly 3 times the normal shotgun's ammo for only twice the cost, but I think I could balance it out to be more like the vanilla SSG again.

That's odd that it takes more than 2 rockets to kill a caco for you. Always seemed like 2 to me... Will look more of it up. That's also odd that you think the flamethrower is weak. If anything I think it's OP as hell at the moment. :P When you have ammo for it, that is.

Tracer bullets will be added very soon, I promise. I understand lots of people like 'em.

Also, while I would have loved to give the flamethrower's napalm some sort of decal, the thing spews fire so much that I'm 100% confident that the amount of decals it would create would either cause some weird decal limit side effect or lag the person's computer to all hell. Perhaps every 1/6 flames could create a decal instead, but that might look weirder than if there were no decals.

The flamethrower does a ton of damage, but it also chews through ammo like nothing. I've found that the flamethrower takes about as much cells as the vanilla plasma rifle to put down a Cyberdemon / Spider Mastermind, give or take 10-20 cells. However, the ammunition cost isn't the only thing that matters, as it's evident that because it has such a high rate of fire now, it rarely gives an enemy a chance to fight back from all of the stunlock. The flamethrower fires about 2 projectiles per tic, compare that to 1 projectile every 2 tics to the vanilla plasma rifle, so it's about four times as fast, leaving an enemy a quarter of their usual time to be able to dish out damage.

I could address this issue a couple ways.

One is that I could keep the damage, but simply have the flamethrower not cause a pain chance at all in any enemy. I think this is the most direct way to address the issue of constant stunlock while keeping raw damage, and while it doesn't make the most realistic sense, realism isn't really a big factor here as much as balance. I think this might end up being the best option, as it then gives the gatling gun room to be THE stunlocking weapon instead.

Another way to handle it would be, like you said Vaecrius, have some enemies (lost soul and pain elemental come to mind, but also bosses like SMM and cybie) take half as much damage from the flamethrower. But again, I want this mod to keep it simple and streamlined, and as much as I LOVE having different damage types for different weapons, in this circumstance I want to keep it all the same.

Additionally, I could do the Strife method of flamethrower control and simply make it hard to control, jittering the player's view around so that they can't reliably aim at something, but I'm not a fan of taking any control out of the player's hands.
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Matt
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.6d Alpha [ZSCRIPT, BAB

Post by Matt »

Having flamethrowers be totally painless but not (e.g.) bullets would be a total immersion-killer. Seems like it would make more sense to do the reverse - keep the painlock but reduce the damage.

(Doing that would also give the flamethrower a special defence role where the SMG is good but not great and the gatling takes too long to start to do properly)
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TheRailgunner
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.6d Alpha [ZSCRIPT, BAB

Post by TheRailgunner »

DoukDouk wrote:I really appreciate the input! I agree that the Solar Propulsor felt kind of weird when you hit anything other than a gibbable enemy, but mostly that was because I couldn't figure out how to get A_Railattack to use a puff. Now I fixed that though, so the next update should have a much beefier Solar Propulsor.

I actually nerfed the SSG in this mod since I thought it was OP that it fires nearly 3 times the normal shotgun's ammo for only twice the cost, but I think I could balance it out to be more like the vanilla SSG again.

That's odd that it takes more than 2 rockets to kill a caco for you. Always seemed like 2 to me... Will look more of it up. That's also odd that you think the flamethrower is weak. If anything I think it's OP as hell at the moment. :P When you have ammo for it, that is.

Tracer bullets will be added very soon, I promise. I understand lots of people like 'em.

Also, while I would have loved to give the flamethrower's napalm some sort of decal, the thing spews fire so much that I'm 100% confident that the amount of decals it would create would either cause some weird decal limit side effect or lag the person's computer to all hell. Perhaps every 1/6 flames could create a decal instead, but that might look weirder than if there were no decals.

The flamethrower does a ton of damage, but it also chews through ammo like nothing. I've found that the flamethrower takes about as much cells as the vanilla plasma rifle to put down a Cyberdemon / Spider Mastermind, give or take 10-20 cells. However, the ammunition cost isn't the only thing that matters, as it's evident that because it has such a high rate of fire now, it rarely gives an enemy a chance to fight back from all of the stunlock. The flamethrower fires about 2 projectiles per tic, compare that to 1 projectile every 2 tics to the vanilla plasma rifle, so it's about four times as fast, leaving an enemy a quarter of their usual time to be able to dish out damage.

I could address this issue a couple ways.

One is that I could keep the damage, but simply have the flamethrower not cause a pain chance at all in any enemy. I think this is the most direct way to address the issue of constant stunlock while keeping raw damage, and while it doesn't make the most realistic sense, realism isn't really a big factor here as much as balance. I think this might end up being the best option, as it then gives the gatling gun room to be THE stunlocking weapon instead.

Another way to handle it would be, like you said Vaecrius, have some enemies (lost soul and pain elemental come to mind, but also bosses like SMM and cybie) take half as much damage from the flamethrower. But again, I want this mod to keep it simple and streamlined, and as much as I LOVE having different damage types for different weapons, in this circumstance I want to keep it all the same.

Additionally, I could do the Strife method of flamethrower control and simply make it hard to control, jittering the player's view around so that they can't reliably aim at something, but I'm not a fan of taking any control out of the player's hands.

So, I have a better idea - you can reduce the pain chance that certain enemies have against it, that way players can't cheese bosses with it (I wouldn't change it for Pain Elemental, since someone could just as easily cheese the PE with the Shredder at close range).

Headshots are most fun with the shotguns.
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badcaradvice
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.6d Alpha [ZSCRIPT, BAB

Post by badcaradvice »

I love the aesthetic of this mod. The Quake-style sprites, the gritty feel, and even when the enemies light up when they're hit. And it all works well with the projectile-based, high speed gameplay. Keep it up!

I also like how the Solar Propulsor sounds like the start of an 80's flick while you're holding it.
Chloroxite
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.6d Alpha [ZSCRIPT, BAB

Post by Chloroxite »

Enemies do ridiculous damage in UV, it feels more like nightmare because of how much zombies alone hurt, it would be nice if enemies dealt damage based on an optional slider instead of affected by difficulty setting. As I stated before, the player already has to deal with more of them, no need for them to be more powerful. (I do appreciate them not being as bullet spongy anymore. :D)

EDIT: if your intention is for the mod to be hard, I suggest balancing the enemies to hurt like they do in "Hardened Man". This seems to be a good balance of difficulty if challenge is what you wish.
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DoukDouk
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.6d Alpha [ZSCRIPT, BAB

Post by DoukDouk »

New version! This adds tracers and balance issues regarding the difficulties and the flamethrower.

Download: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6y8i7 ... pub1E/view

Changelog:
Spoiler:
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Matt
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Re: [WIP] Sun Damage Omen : Version 0.6i Alpha [BALANCE]

Post by Matt »

Now that tracers are always on I managed to get through TNT Map01 without getting shot once, at no point in any real danger of running out of ammo. The change in difficulty is huge.

Flamethrower definitely feels more "right" now.

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