Heretical Doom v1.2 - Making Melee Fun Again!

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Re: Heretical Doom v1.2 - Making Melee Fun Again!

Postby MaxRideWizardLord » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:39 pm

A tiny suggestion please: can we have three basic spells, one that heals, another that repair armor, and third that summon ammo for you?

Since all of the weapons consumes "magical" artificial ammunition items that actually charge them up like a magic would, imho that makes perfect sense to me to be able to recreate those or be knowledged of magical skill that could equally charge up your weapons like the pickups do.
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Re: Heretical Doom v1.2 - Making Melee Fun Again!

Postby Ryuhi » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:27 am

MaxRideWizardLord wrote:A tiny suggestion please: can we have three basic spells, one that heals, another that repair armor, and third that summon ammo for you?

Since all of the weapons consumes "magical" artificial ammunition items that actually charge them up like a magic would, imho that makes perfect sense to me to be able to recreate those or be knowledged of magical skill that could equally charge up your weapons like the pickups do.


to cast the healing spell, equip the staff and reload. if you have under 50 mana, it will heal very slowly, but you can hold the button down to channel it and heal continuously. you are completely vulnerable during the spell though, so be careful with it. If you have 50 mana or more, casting the spell will consume 50 to heal you instantly, with a much faster animation.

As for repairing armor, thats an idea I've been trying to balance for a while. I will come up with a better solution, but for now, there are a few staff attacks that can drain armor from enemies.

Lastly with the ammo, thats what the chalice is for :) if you're playing modern mode, it will collect any "overflow" ammo you collect (i.e the ammo type is full, but you picked up more anyway) and pool it into a total. when it fills, use the FULL Krater in your inventory (or keybind it) to drink from it and refill all of your reserves to full! If you're playing Classic mode, the Krater of Might does not restore as much ammo, but is plentifully packed into item spawns and backpacks.
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Re: Heretical Doom v1.2 - Making Melee Fun Again!

Postby MaxRideWizardLord » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:43 am

Ryuhi wrote:
MaxRideWizardLord wrote:A tiny suggestion please: can we have three basic spells, one that heals, another that repair armor, and third that summon ammo for you?

Since all of the weapons consumes "magical" artificial ammunition items that actually charge them up like a magic would, imho that makes perfect sense to me to be able to recreate those or be knowledged of magical skill that could equally charge up your weapons like the pickups do.


to cast the healing spell, equip the staff and reload. if you have under 50 mana, it will heal very slowly, but you can hold the button down to channel it and heal continuously. you are completely vulnerable during the spell though, so be careful with it. If you have 50 mana or more, casting the spell will consume 50 to heal you instantly, with a much faster animation.

As for repairing armor, thats an idea I've been trying to balance for a while. I will come up with a better solution, but for now, there are a few staff attacks that can drain armor from enemies.

Lastly with the ammo, thats what the chalice is for :) if you're playing modern mode, it will collect any "overflow" ammo you collect (i.e the ammo type is full, but you picked up more anyway) and pool it into a total. when it fills, use the FULL Krater in your inventory (or keybind it) to drink from it and refill all of your reserves to full! If you're playing Classic mode, the Krater of Might does not restore as much ammo, but is plentifully packed into item spawns and backpacks.


But that doesn't magically make ammo spawn on map, especially if it's a mappack really low on ammo (or lack of it) and doesn't have basic human npc that drop weapons to begin with. :< Being dependant too much on map design and it's pickups often can be really annoying and unfun. However, the primary reason why I ask for such spell, so I could use the weapon I prefer like use without caring too much about environmental pickups, and while it's actually not that powerful but fun weapon, the ammo for it tend to be extremely low. Besides, isn't that the main interesting point of magic is that you using the power from within crafted by your pure mind and spirit to kill things, rather than rely on power outside created by someone else? The whole reason why I suggested these spells so you won't anymore be fully dependent on map's resources in order to fullfill either ammo or armor (i.e. pickups and enemies that you can drain it off).
What about a simple spell that eats 25 mana and creates only a single pickup of medium size type ammunition item of every ammo type to your inventory? Hell, maybe even light size type ammunition and may eat 40 mana if you think magical ammo inrcanation would scare people from pickups. That way it won't be abused to instantly refill your ammo back to full whenever you like it, but will help you to refill ammo for your favorite weapon at the cost of wasting mana for something inferiour than tome of power and, obviously, a timefreeze. Maybe I just prefer more tactical and safe fight than fast paced crazed one.

As for staff, didn't knew about it, thanks. Although I'd like being able to switch between healing modes, because wasting all 50 mana just in vain while wanting to heal 3hp in a corner after intense fight can be agitating sometimes.
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Re: Heretical Doom v1.2 - Making Melee Fun Again!

Postby Ryuhi » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:19 pm

i honestly feel like ammo and quartz flasks are pretty absurdly common as it is, and am honestly working on tweaking them down rather than up. Between ammo bundle drops, spawns, backpacks, the increasing max ammo per level, the tome of power, and shock combos... I have a hard time burning any weapons to 0 ammo deliberately let alone accidentally. you could always tweak the MAPINFO skill levels to improve the drop rates if you'd like, but I plan to keep them lower and provide some CVAR customization to their rates in the future
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Re: Heretical Doom v1.2 - Making Melee Fun Again!

Postby MaxRideWizardLord » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:33 pm

Ryuhi wrote:i honestly feel like ammo and quartz flasks are pretty absurdly common as it is, and am honestly working on tweaking them down rather than up. Between ammo bundle drops, spawns, backpacks, the increasing max ammo per level, the tome of power, and shock combos... I have a hard time burning any weapons to 0 ammo deliberately let alone accidentally. you could always tweak the MAPINFO skill levels to improve the drop rates if you'd like, but I plan to keep them lower and provide some CVAR customization to their rates in the future


Eh, that honestly sad to hear. Besides, like I said, some custom maps are really low on drops as mosnters simple do not drop any ammo and there is no real ammunition on the maps itself. I tried myself create a simple armor creating spell as an patch for hexercise (holy hell that was an agonyful experience, especially considering there isn't proper armor value actors in gzdoom for hexen armor) so it end up being a monstrocity that barely work because a few other people told me a few tricks to mixtape it. It shatters me to think of what actors I would need to use to replenish ammunition for each weapon a little if I ever bother to create such spell myself. I can't blame you if creating spells to replenish armor or ammo could be really tiresome, considering gzdoom developers do not bother too much about actors of other games like HeXen.
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Re: Heretical Doom v1.2 - Making Melee Fun Again!

Postby -Ghost- » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:08 pm

Making the mod more difficult is probably the right choice, I think. Right now you end up flying through Doom 1 and 2 pretty easily, same for Heretic, assuming that's your baseline for difficulty. After awhile you just end up having so much stuff, both items and armor/ammo that it's hard to fail short of something just one hitting you.
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Re: Heretical Doom v1.2 - Making Melee Fun Again!

Postby MaxRideWizardLord » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:30 pm

-Ghost- wrote:Making the mod more difficult is probably the right choice, I think. Right now you end up flying through Doom 1 and 2 pretty easily, same for Heretic, assuming that's your baseline for difficulty. After awhile you just end up having so much stuff, both items and armor/ammo that it's hard to fail short of something just one hitting you.


Using vanila mappacks is number one mistake you can do if you're actually looking for challenge using gameplay mods like this. Try chillax on last maps or at least hell revealed series if chillax is too hardcore for you, or even better - going down. I am pretty sure that on last maps random spawning ambushing chaingunners and revenants with serious lack on ammunition will get your ass kicked if you're not careful. :p There many custom mappack mods that seriously lack on ammunition on last maps that mostly force you to run away from npc rather than let you get 100% on kills, going down and chillax are a good example of these.
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Re: Heretical Doom v1.2 - Making Melee Fun Again!

Postby Ryuhi » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:08 pm

If I were to do anything in regards to an ammo "spell", it would likely be some type of mana bleed to go toward filling the Krater. The exact scenarios you listed are exactly why I incorporated it, as it will refill all ammo reserves to full, and your max ammo counts increase with each level up. By the end of wads like Hell Awakened, you should be replenishing hundreds for each weapon, easily, with each drink. Not only that, but almost every single weapon scales its damage up with your level, requiring less hits by the end of a campaign. There are also items like the Rooster Roaster and Morph Ovum that can make taking out large encounters easy without expending any ammo.

Armor is one I understand due to the glass cannon nature of corvus. The Mystic Urn revamp was a way to address this by "reincarnating" at the start of the level, but I have been looking into ways to make armor not melt as quickly in hard encounters/monster replacers like Colorful Hell.
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Re: Heretical Doom v1.2 - Making Melee Fun Again!

Postby MaxRideWizardLord » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:57 pm

A spell\skill that drains mana to fullfill the krater is even better, since it would fill all of the ammo at once without painfully refill it little by little. I'm all up to whatever you prefer to come up with.
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Re: Heretical Doom v1.2 - Making Melee Fun Again!

Postby JasmairoQY » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:37 am

How do i config the game so it produces less water particles when i got the GREAT idea of using the Tomed Claw in water filled corridors? The slowdown AND the the lack of visibility is quite a problem.
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Re: Heretical Doom v1.2 - Making Melee Fun Again!

Postby Ryuhi » Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:18 pm

JasmairoQY wrote:How do i config the game so it produces less water particles when i got the GREAT idea of using the Tomed Claw in water filled corridors? The slowdown AND the the lack of visibility is quite a problem.


are you trying to use it with brutal doom monsters? because thats the only way it should make much of a performance difference (in which case your computer will probably weep in agony.)
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Re: Heretical Doom v1.2 - Making Melee Fun Again!

Postby JasmairoQY » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:01 am

Ryuhi wrote:
JasmairoQY wrote:How do i config the game so it produces less water particles when i got the GREAT idea of using the Tomed Claw in water filled corridors? The slowdown AND the the lack of visibility is quite a problem.


are you trying to use it with brutal doom monsters? because thats the only way it should make much of a performance difference (in which case your computer will probably weep in agony.)


Just the things you posted here:
HDMonstersCompatPatch.pk3
HereticalDoom 1.2.pk3
HereticalDoomMonsters 0.3a.pk3

Its not JUST the insane amount of water particles flying all over when a weapon hits a wide area (like tomed Claw) that makes the game slow, it also makes it hard to see since its a small corridor AND you are fighting melee fucks all over the place, which makes the visibility even shittier since the particles are right on your face along with them.
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Re: Heretical Doom v1.2 - Making Melee Fun Again!

Postby AvzinElkein » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:07 am

JasmairoQY wrote:
Ryuhi wrote:
JasmairoQY wrote:How do i config the game so it produces less water particles when i got the GREAT idea of using the Tomed Claw in water filled corridors? The slowdown AND the the lack of visibility is quite a problem.


are you trying to use it with brutal doom monsters? because thats the only way it should make much of a performance difference (in which case your computer will probably weep in agony.)


Just the things you posted here:
HDMonstersCompatPatch.pk3
HereticalDoom 1.2.pk3
HereticalDoomMonsters 0.3a.pk3

Its not JUST the insane amount of water particles flying all over when a weapon hits a wide area (like tomed Claw) that makes the game slow, it also makes it hard to see since its a small corridor AND you are fighting melee fucks all over the place, which makes the visibility even shittier since the particles are right on your face along with them.

You don't need the compat patch if you're running Heretical Doom Monsters with Heretical Doom.
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Re: Heretical Doom v1.2 - Making Melee Fun Again!

Postby Ryuhi » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:40 pm

I just tested it on the water hallways in map 8 of plutonia, didn't have any issues. Is it happening during a specific map/wad combination?

In regards to pure visibility, well, its a weapon thats shooting an absurd number of projectiles in every direction... If you use it in tight quarters, its pretty much always going to be hard to see past unless it a hitscan weapon :/

out of curiosity, try it without HDMonsters and let me know if that helps.
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Re: Heretical Doom v1.2 - Making Melee Fun Again!

Postby JasmairoQY » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:06 am

Ryuhi wrote:I just tested it on the water hallways in map 8 of plutonia, didn't have any issues. Is it happening during a specific map/wad combination?

In regards to pure visibility, well, its a weapon thats shooting an absurd number of projectiles in every direction... If you use it in tight quarters, its pretty much always going to be hard to see past unless it a hitscan weapon :/

out of curiosity, try it without HDMonsters and let me know if that helps.


Using Curse of Dsparil megawad, E3M3 with the water corridors. Not using HDMonsters didnt help much. Using Tomed Claw on water alone doesnt generate as much particles as actually hitting and enemy that is ALSO on water. I presume that maybe the blood particles hit the water creating multiple instances of water effects?
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