[3.4!] FINAL DOOMER +

[Daiki Akaoni]

A bit late but... congratulations, you really earned that cacoward!!
V1.2 was amazing
V2.2 is glorious as an enormous waffle!
AA guy "ssg" feels so cool and cyber-symetric
BTSX "drugs" teamed with those explosive punches...

Holy molly every class feels so cool
but...
JPCP guy...
Is like playing the remastered version of "shadow warrior" from 2013 or some kind of tokusatsu badass!!!

(I totally love when 2 or 3 imps are like "lets incinerate this guy" and before they even blink, you run, unseathe your badass sword *fius* and then !BUM! they explode and die while you seath the sword again)

[Captain J]

It's gonna be more awesome with anime sounds on. Don't you think? (wink-wink)

[Daiki Akaoni]

It's gonna be more awesome with anime sounds on. Don't you think? (wink-wink)

jejeje, I need to try that wad too!

[Douk Nouk Kem]

First of all, congratulations with getting the Cacoward, as evident by the quality of this mod it is well deserved.
At this point it stands as something with a truly great amount of content, and absolute majority of it

---

or could I simply say almost everything

be it weapon sprites, custom huds, sound design and weapons themselves really shows a well executed idea. Regarding the v2.0 onwards I also think it should be noted how well the new weapon sets were executed, although originally I was only interested in BTSX guy, after spending some good time with it, eventually I found out both the AA and JCMP to be not just good, but

---

evidently leaving some bittersweet taste

even more compelling than BTSX, especially the JCMP whom at first I considered to be nothing more than "Mr. Gimmick".
Still, there are few things that I wanted to note, that caught attention:
1) Plutonia's Heavy Machine Gun sprite is mostly good, but ammo belt looks like a bunch of cream-brown crayons stuck together, slot 6 guns are visually the most varied in the mod, but HMG kinda lacks behind everyone else.
2) AA's old shotgun has some really aggressive click for when you pump it, but firing sound is lackluster, with its poof not even closely reaching the excitement that shell ejection brings
3) A very minor thing, but AA's alien shotgun it definitely not six-barreled, as noted in the weapon description, the way the barrels are positioned, rotate and spread out suggest more of an eight barreled mechanism, I understand that it's a minor gripe, but still

My biggest criticism for the moment is BTXS guy, after playing through episode one, some random wads and finally making some basic test to compare him to other playable charactes I found him to be very hit or miss on certain aspects.
The Good
Powerfist is a fun melee, that can gib weaker enemies, and can be beefed up not once, but from two different sources, although nothing beats the one-two-three combo of the TNT guy, this still remains a good melee.
Energy Pistol aka Plinker is surprisingly good, and on nanoboost it feels almost broken for a back up weapon with infinite ammo, charged up shots having AoE also helps.
Arc Blaster is the best shotgun, the design, the unique utility, perfect accuracy and Tasty Green Lime Projectiles make it the biggest standout out of all the basic shotguns.
Machreaper is the best super shotgun, the design, unapologetic overspecialization, punchy sound and The Reload Animation make the most satisfying weapon. Both of these guns also complement each other very well, the only thing comparable is TNT's striker/shotgun combo, where one gun provides short term burst solution, while the second one gives a better tradeoff over longer time.
Plasma cannon is a honest workhorse with reliable damage and no self-damage at the cost of medioce AoE.
X-Spark now actually works correctly and it does what is says: obliterates anything that gets in its way.

The Bad
Powerboost is a good idea, and I understand your decisions behind its design, but having only a single charge is very limiting, and with this comes a few problems, such as making it a dead weaponslot on anything bigger than Scythe 1/2 style early maps, giving you no guarantee that you can actually keep it up for any considerable amount of time ie having fun with it, due to its reliance on map knowledge, lack of hitscanner enemies and blind luck when getting hit, not being able to recharge it by any means, even by finding a rather rare pickup of itself and the least problem - the somewhat incosistent bonuses that it provides to various weapons, I know that intention is to give weaker weapons more power in order to make them more desireable to use when compared to heavy artillery, but while X-Spark definitely doesn't need anything but extra utility from instant charging, plasma gatling could get something besides that and Machreaper becomes far too good with its ammo efficiency sky rocketing into high orbit. On a more personal note I simply enjoy the animation of bumping the thing and getting juiced, getting to see it more often would be cool and having any kind of options on how it functions would be nice.
Pulse rifle is not that bad, but there's a problem, this is a weapon with mediocre rate of fire, which fires somewhat big projectiles ( which sometime really prefer to hit the scenery rather than enemies ) in a weaponslot made for dakka hitscan, it is simply not good enough at what it should be ( I could elaborate on this point further if you'd like ), one blunt suggestion, damage from 13-15 to 15-17 for better consistency and more reliable powered up shot while not taking away its identity of an oddball.
Plasma Gatling does not share the strong generalist vibe of the 6th slot weapons, it only has good dps, but suffers from SSG-tier accuracy, wind up, mediocre damage per shot/bad ammo efficiency and lack of unique utility, for being somewhat better at grinding things up close it gives away far too much, for all its implied utility even JPCP's Yugioh card launcher beats it if only because it deals solid damage with dead-on accuracy, while also having bonkers passive effect.

[Yholl]

A bit late but... congratulations, you really earned that cacoward!!
V1.2 was amazing
V2.2 is glorious as an enormous waffle!

Thank you very much, I'm glad to hear you are enjoying yourself so much!

First of all, congratulations with getting the Cacoward, as evident by the quality of this mod it is well deserved.

Thank you! I uh, don't really see why you put parts of what you are saying in spoilers, though.

A very minor thing, but AA's alien shotgun it definitely not six-barreled, as noted in the weapon description, the way the barrels are positioned, rotate and spread out suggest more of an eight barreled mechanism

Oh yeah, so it is. My bad!

giving you no guarantee that you can actually keep it up for any considerable amount of time ie having fun with it

Correct. It's a gamble. Is your health enough? Are you prepared to dodge? Will the map do something you can't prevent? Is there a better place in the level to use it? These are the questions it makes you ask.

I know that intention is to give weaker weapons more power in order to make them more desireable to use when compared to heavy artillery

That is not the intention at all. The intention is to give you a hefty murderboost across the board, but only if you're skilled or lucky enough to keep it.

Pulse rifle is not that bad, but there's a problem, this is a weapon with mediocre rate of fire, which fires somewhat big projectiles ( which sometime really prefer to hit the scenery rather than enemies ) in a weaponslot made for dakka hitscan, it is simply not good enough at what it should be

Not all weapons are supposed to be amazing. Most of the BTSX arsenal is extremely deadly, so the Pulse Rifle is weaker than most.

Plasma Gatling does not share the strong generalist vibe of the 6th slot weapons, it only has good dps, but suffers from SSG-tier accuracy, wind up, mediocre damage per shot/bad ammo efficiency and lack of unique utility, for being somewhat better at grinding things up close it gives away far too much, for all its implied utility even JPCP's Yugioh card launcher beats it if only because it deals solid damage with dead-on accuracy, while also having bonkers passive effect.

It's not a generalist weapon. It's not a sniping weapon. It's the most unstoppable and powerful non-BFG in the entire mod, that can shred pretty much anything without trying.
Also ammo efficiency is not really a thing, when there's only one gun that uses the ammo type, and the ammo type is completely tailored to it.

[Zaratul]

I agree with Douk Nouk Kem,pulse rifle should get a little dmg buff for normal fireand\or that 30 sec cooldown fire.

[Viscra Maelstrom]

i think the pulse rifle is just right and about on par with the other chainguns. i suppose the powerful shot could get a teeeeensy tiny bit of buff, so that it's guaranteed to kill at least an Imp in one shot, but otherwise the damage is fine. it's also one of the few only chainguns in the mod with perfect accuracy, so long distance jerks can be dealt with it handily.

with that being said, i found that with BTSXGuy, enemies in DRLA Monsters that are immune to plasma damage, like the Hellstorm Elemental and the Cacobyss are completely invulnerable to the Plasma Vulcan, and, more crucially, the X Spark Cannon. this is only a minor inconvenience in most cases, but does mean that Armageddon would be a colossal pain in the ass to play for BTSXGuy. enemies resistant to bullet weapons, most notably Revenants, are also resistant to most hitscan weapons across all classes, although, i guess that's supposed to be intentional.

i also found a small inconsistency; if you pick up the Incursion Annihilator, whilst already holding it, the message is the same as if you picked it up for the first time, rather than being told that you drained the IA or something of the like.

[Yholl]

I agree with Douk Nouk Kem,pulse rifle should get a little dmg buff for normal fireand\or that 30 sec cooldown fire.

nah

i suppose the powerful shot could get a teeeeensy tiny bit of buff, so that it's guaranteed to kill at least an Imp in one shot.

Dunno, BTSXguy is full of stuff that one-shots imps, I'd rather not give him another.

with that being said, i found that with BTSXGuy, enemies in DRLA Monsters that are immune to plasma damage, like the Hellstorm Elemental and the Cacobyss are completely invulnerable to the Plasma Vulcan, and, more crucially, the X Spark Cannon.

The X-Spark Cannon should (hopefully) be effective on everything in the next patch. Plasma Vulcan will still deal Plasma damage though.
I bet you're glad all the other guns don't do Plasma damage, hahahaa. They used to!

i also found a small inconsistency; if you pick up the Incursion Annihilator, whilst already holding it, the message is the same as if you picked it up for the first time, rather than being told that you drained the IA or something of the like.

Oooh, well spotted, looks like all BFGs except the Plutonia one are doing that. Fixed!

[Douk Nouk Kem]

Correct. It's a gamble. Is your health enough? Are you prepared to dodge? Will the map do something you can't prevent? Is there a better place in the level to use it? These are the questions it makes you ask.

These questions are loaded, and again rely less on your skill and more on blatant map knowledge, unless you possess the ability of clairvoyance this is extremely punishing design without player even being a part of it.

That is not the intention at all. The intention is to give you a hefty murderboost across the board, but only if you're skilled or lucky enough to keep it.

But then why Machreaper gains lower ammo consumption, even though it doesn't directly boosts your offenvise abilities and gatling only gains instantaneous fire, which while does prove useful is only a minor improvement when compared to increased rate of fire for Rifle/Cannon or extra projectiles of Arc Blaster, if anything gatling could benefit a lot more from consuming less ammo, as it would help with its nature of a fire hose.

Pulse rifle is not that bad, but there's a problem, this is a weapon with mediocre rate of fire, which fires somewhat big projectiles ( which sometime really prefer to hit the scenery rather than enemies ) in a weaponslot made for dakka hitscan, it is simply not good enough at what it should be

Not all weapons are supposed to be amazing. Most of the BTSX arsenal is extremely deadly, so the Pulse Rifle is weaker than most.

I find this to be completely arbitrary, just because certain weapons from a weaponset are good doesn't mean that other weapons should be brought down, firstly because this instantly makes them less fun, and secondly is that even within this mod itself this doesn't occur, because then something like AA's Alien Device could easily justify making the rest of the kit absolute garbage, yet the arsenal given is consistently strong, just like all other weaponsets, but Pulse Rifle on the other hand is completely off put, it doesn't have the raw power ( chaingun ), rate of fire ( machine gun ), bullet count ( UZIs ), generally good stats ( old AK ) or any kind of secondary utility ( nailgun ) to be effective, its rate of fire is slower than anything else's, so it's not a spam weapon and its damage is too weak to give you an impression that short controlled burst will give reliable output.

It's not a generalist weapon. It's not a sniping weapon. It's the most unstoppable and powerful non-BFG in the entire mod, that can shred pretty much anything without trying.

It is beastly strong, but only in melee range, which makes it extremely limiting in the ways that you can use it, again when compared to other slot 6 guns, all of which are strong generalist.

Also ammo efficiency is not really a thing, when there's only one gun that uses the ammo type, and the ammo type is completely tailored to it.

When 25% of your shots start hitting either floor/ceiling past the SSG range it kinda becomes hard not to notice how ineffectively wasteful the weapon can be.

[Yholl]

These questions are loaded, and again rely less on your skill and more on blatant map knowledge, unless you possess the ability of clairvoyance this is extremely punishing design without player even being a part of it.

It can't punish you, it's free.

But then why Machreaper gains lower ammo consumption, even though it doesn't directly boosts your offenvise abilities and gatling only gains instantaneous fire, which while does prove useful is only a minor improvement when compared to increased rate of fire for Rifle/Cannon or extra projectiles of Arc Blaster, if anything gatling could benefit a lot more from consuming less ammo, as it would help with its nature of a fire hose.

I will never buff the Plasma Vulcan, it's a god-killing engine of war. Also "only gains instantaneous fire". You clearly underestimate the true worth of such a thing.
The Nanocore gives all your weapons a boost. The boost is not the same, it's tailored to each weapon.

I find this to be completely arbitrary, just because certain weapons from a weaponset are good doesn't mean that other weapons should be brought down

It wasn't brought down, this is how it was designed. If a cool green shooty sci-fi gun with a triple strength opening shot isn't enough for you, I'm sorry. But it was designed like this from the begining, and works very well.

It is beastly strong, but only in melee range, which makes it extremely limiting in the ways that you can use it, again when compared to other slot 6 guns, all of which are strong generalist.

It's not a generalist weapon. It is limited in purpose.

When 25% of your shots start hitting either floor/ceiling past the SSG range it kinda becomes hard not to notice how ineffectively wasteful the weapon can be.

If I made a gun that just exploded randomly chosen bits of floor around you, which only had a small chance of hitting what you were looking at, would you consider that wasteful too?

[Xaser]

i suppose the powerful shot could get a teeeeensy tiny bit of buff, so that it's guaranteed to kill at least an Imp in one shot, but otherwise the damage is fine.

I've been playing around with BTSX a lot more, and while all of my earlier iffiness has since been shed (<3 Machreaper, it's perfect), this is maybe the one thing I feel could use a bump (namely, making the powershot something like 5x instead of 3x). Here's why:

There's a lot of pomp and circumstance behind the charging mechanic -- you pull the lever, wait for it to turn green, then anticipate your next shot being really awesome. It's really cool in its wrappings, but the damage increase is too small to live up to the hype. The weapon's overall DPS is perfect for its tier (it's my main workhorse throughout BTSX E1 and I love it as such), but the powered shot's presence doesn't really feel like it makes any difference. The potential's there, but the buildup doesn't really lead to a satisfying conclusion.

Tl;dr, it may be balanced, but it still doesn't feel how I'd expect it to.

Because I don't want to just make this yet another change-request-negative-nancy post, I'm having so much gorram fun with this. TNT UZI KREW 4LYF

[Douk Nouk Kem]

It can't punish you, it's free.

It will take away the nanoboost though, making it worthless for the rest of the level and that is a punishment.

It's not a generalist weapon. It is limited in purpose.

Maybe a bit too much.

If I made a gun that just exploded randomly chosen bits of floor around you, which only had a small chance of hitting what you were looking at, would you consider that wasteful too?

Only if it didn't shoot purple projectiles, but maybe even then it would be a bit wasteful.

[potetobloke]

muh feedback

---

BTSX Guy's SSG is both satisfying and powerful
AA Guy's bow thing is really good because it can stun anything
AA Guy's pistol is really good, despite the bad-ish accuracy
TNT Guy's SG is very accurate, it's even pinpoint accurate
JPCP Guy's pistol is very silent
TNT Guy's plasma rifle replacement is kinda hard to use (for me) even if it's really accurate
Overall, every gun is really satisfying to use

Also, where can I find sprites of the barrel-less chaingun used in both TNT Guy's Plasma Rifle and BTSX Guy's BFG?

[zrrion the insect]

IIRC cage made it, it shoold be in the spriting carnival somewhere

Edit: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15080&p=499351&hili ... un#p499351

[Sgt. Shivers]

I got the barreless chaingun sprites from Chronoteeth.