Lithium [1.5.3 Update][Nov. 22]

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Re: Lithium [1.2 Update/Feb. 1]

Postby Spaceman333 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:07 pm

I'm really liking this mod! I just loaded up an Oblige megawad, along with some synthdoom and ketchup on the side, and I must say I'm having a lot of fun! I get the feeling of being powerful, agile and free, yet not quite overpowered. I really like that. 8-)

I particularly enjoy the player abilities, like the quick dash with WASD + Shift, the timestop if a projectile is about to hit me with that 1 minute cooldown, the doublejump, the enemy HP scanner, the entrynuke and reactive armor. Really cool features! These make the experience feel more about me having fun as a player, allowing the full freedom to go really fast and dodge projectiles like a champ, while also providing some conveniences to make the level-to-level gameplay flow feel really streamlined. These features make me feel like I can play this non-stop, with little friction getting in the way of momentum. I love that.

I also enjoy the theme and atmosphere, with how the player is framed as a corporate cybersoldier straight out of a cyberpunk movie, with megacorporations, augmented superhumans, advanced military tech and such. The CBI, the information that it contains and the stylization is really cool to me. The whole style of the mod is something I find really appealing overall.

Meanwhile, the metagame, upgrade system, shop and weapons are things I feel two-minded about.

With the metagame, I love the idea of my character doing contract work of mopping up levels from the demonic invasion, getting compensated (and implicitly rated on my performance by how thorough I was through the money I earn), yet the use for that money over the course of a megawad to get the same upgrades with each new playthrough is something that feel novel only on the first playthrough. After the first one, it begins to feel annoying and redundant. In my mind, I'm thinking "Welp, I'm on my 5th playthrough and I'm yet again getting the same upgrades over again that I would have preferred to have from the start. Gotta grind that money to get it. Meh."

With the guns, I love the infinite ammo for the regular weapons and limited ammo for the power weapons, I love how they have altfires, special abilities and how their functionality allows them to be useful in different situations, uniquely. I also like how the average powerlevel of weapons is double or triple that of vanilla default doom 2 weapons. This factor plays very nicely with the added movement abilities I get as a player to further reinforce the idea that I'm a badass megacorporation cybersoldier. Yet at the same time, the power of weapons, their altfires, ammo management, balance, visual consistency (how each weapon looks and feels compared to the others as a set) and the general usefulness when compared to each other seems out of whack. Some upgrades seem interesting at first, but often seem to be less efficient than their unupgraded variants. There is also a lack of a common standard to intuitively understand the power of a weapon, making it difficult to discern if a certain attack is more powerful at a glance. The enemy HP hud upgrade mitigates this somewhat, but vanilla weapons have this type of audiovisual<=>power standard consistency laid out more clearly. The roles of weapons also seem to overlap and contradict one another, with the gauss-shotgun being an excellent sniper weapon with a scope, moreso than the actual sniper rifle nor the combat rifle's burst mode.

With the hud, it works really smoothly, looks cool, but has some minor issues. I play on a 5:4 aspect ratio monitor, on 1024x768 resolution, so the Score gets obscured whenever I turn on the CBI. I need to switch back and forth to remember how much I have. Meanwhile, the Score is often a large number, making it tricky to discern quickly if I have 1000000 (one million) or 100000 (hundred thousand) of money at a glance. The BUY button's on/off state is alternating between a white and a faint grey, making it necessary to squint to determine if its actually available or not. If it were yellow when available, but greyed out when not, it would do wonders for user experience on that front. The scrollbar is also not fully obvious either at first glance. Making it stand out more would help new users to find it faster on their first go. It would also be useful if purchased/owned upgrades were color coded, to better give a faster overview of what I do have, what is active and what is offline and what has not yet been bought.

Overall, I like the mod. I have experienced two instances of the game freezing (requiring a ctrl-alt-del processkill), but other than that, it works smooth and plays well. One thing I don't get is the jetpack. No idea how to properly use that thing.

Personally, I'd want to see some a code of consistency and standard introduced to the weapons to more easily determine how powerful they are in relation to how they look, sound and feel when firing. I'd also want the upgrade system/shop to focus more on long-lasting consumable booster items/deployables/disposable superweapons, while introducing most of the current upgrades and purchases as standard issue equipment from the start. Lastly, I'd want to see the weapons have more defined roles. The revolver, sniper and laser shotty seem less effective than most other weapons, while the shotgun is an excellent all-range, all-situation gun that makes everything else feel underclassed. If all the other weapons could aspire to the shotgun of this mod, that'd be awesome.

Thank you again for making this mod, its really good! :D

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Re: Lithium [1.2 Update/Feb. 1]

Postby Triple S » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:18 am

Alright so I've been enjoying this a lot lately! But, I have some criticisms, mostly regarding some of the weapon balance.

First, the pistol is in a good spot right now... for the most part. In earlier versions you could spam the hell out of this thing, especially scoped, but toning that back has put it in line for sure. However, the auto-pistol mod breaks the weapon because it doesn't seem to affect the damage at all. It's very, very strong, and is always the first upgrade I get because it has ridiculous damage output. The Revolver's power and accuracy is definitely impressive, but the auto-pistol kills almost as quickly against single targets and handles groups better. If the auto-pistol sacrificed some power and/or accuracy for its fire rate, it might be better off. I wouldn't consider it overpowered in the grand scheme of things, though.

Second... what is the point of the laser shotgun? It's too weak compared to the standard shotgun, which can also pierce crowds in much the same way. Having a faster fire-rate would help make it feel even more unique compared to the standard shotgun while also increasing its effectiveness.

Third, I love the vital scanner, but I don't like its position. It'd be awesome if we could customize its size and location on the screen, because right now I barely even notice it.

EDIT: Oh right. I also feel like either the Gauss Rifle upgrade is too weak, or the standard shotgun is too strong, because I feel like I'm gimping myself by replacing the shotgun with it even though I really like the weapon. I'm pretty sure it kills slower than the auto-pistol, too.
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Re: Lithium [1.2 Update/Feb. 1]

Postby GAA1992 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:49 pm

Yeah, Someone bumped, so i don't have to do it.

I'm honored to make part of this fun. Thanks for turning my AutoShotty into a badass LaserBlaster.

You can always check out my files and use something on your will.


About the game?

Jeez, the game speaks for itself. it's gourgeous! One of the best things i've ever played. More, please.
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Re: Lithium [1.2 Update/Feb. 1]

Postby Hellstorm Archon » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:40 pm

Ho-LEE SHIT. :D

This is probably one of the best mods I've ever played, and this should at least deserve a mention for a Cacoward.

My only suggestion, is if we somehow got a patch that allows us to play with the monsters-only version of Smooth Doom, then this would be 100% golden.

EDIT: So I've just tried it with monsters-only Smooth Doom. The only real issue is that zombies end up dropping the weapons that are supposed to be rare. This would mean that a patch would be as simple as replacing the weapon that they would drop with the spawner that determines whether or not the weapon will spawn. Should be a relatively simple fix.
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Re: Lithium [1.2 Update/Feb. 1]

Postby Marrub » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:28 pm

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I haven't had much time to work on this recently as I've been working on something entirely unrelated to Doom, but I have still been planning features and balance changes.

The main thing I want to change is the numbers. When I started working on Lithium I pretty much just threw random numbers at the weapons' damage and enemies' health, so it feels a bit messy in that regard.

I've implemented a system (which you can turn off if you really want) that detects if the monsters you're playing with work with Lithium.
It's set up so if they aren't I could potentially add case-by-case fixes for them, but I haven't implemented any.
The big issue is that monsters need to call an ACS script when they die (Lith_EmitScore) and not drop anything else, otherwise the balance gets super weird.


Triple S wrote:The auto-pistol mod breaks the weapon because it doesn't seem to affect the damage at all. It's very, very strong, and is always the first upgrade I get because it has ridiculous damage output. The Revolver's power and accuracy is definitely impressive, but the auto-pistol kills almost as quickly against single targets and handles groups better. If the auto-pistol sacrificed some power and/or accuracy for its fire rate, it might be better off. I wouldn't consider it overpowered in the grand scheme of things, though.

This is almost intentional, the shop weapons are supposed to be stronger than the base weapons but either situational or not strong enough to overpower the upgrades; but you are right, the auto pistol upgrade should be affecting accuracy. This wouldn't make it any worse as a weapon, just less ridiculous.

Triple S wrote:Third, I love the vital scanner, but I don't like its position. It'd be awesome if we could customize its size and location on the screen, because right now I barely even notice it.

I'll add some CVars when I get back to development.


Thanks again for playing, guys.
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Re: Lithium [1.2 Update/Feb. 1]

Postby Slax » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:38 pm

No Lithium videos on Youtube from what I've seen so here, have one.


More words later. So sleepy...
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Re: Lithium [1.2 Update/Feb. 1]

Postby Triple S » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:39 pm

Marrub wrote:
Triple S wrote:The auto-pistol mod breaks the weapon because it doesn't seem to affect the damage at all. It's very, very strong, and is always the first upgrade I get because it has ridiculous damage output. The Revolver's power and accuracy is definitely impressive, but the auto-pistol kills almost as quickly against single targets and handles groups better. If the auto-pistol sacrificed some power and/or accuracy for its fire rate, it might be better off. I wouldn't consider it overpowered in the grand scheme of things, though.

This is almost intentional, the shop weapons are supposed to be stronger than the base weapons but either situational or not strong enough to overpower the upgrades; but you are right, the auto pistol upgrade should be affecting accuracy. This wouldn't make it any worse as a weapon, just less ridiculous.


I kinda figured that was the case with how purchased weapons VS upgrades worked, which is why I brought the auto-pistol up. Making it a more inaccurate weapon (probably somewhere between the assault rifle and what it is now) would do wonders. It'd give both the Revolver and the Gauss Rifle more of a use, and also make you consider turning it off every now and then during the "early game," so to speak.

Like you said though, you're gonna tweak the numbers around on everything, which will likely fix everything.

Marrub wrote:
Triple S wrote:Third, I love the vital scanner, but I don't like its position. It'd be awesome if we could customize its size and location on the screen, because right now I barely even notice it.

I'll add some CVars when I get back to development.


Awesome, thank you very much. Definitely looking forward to the next version!
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Re: Lithium [1.2 Update/Feb. 1]

Postby Slax » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:33 pm

One thing I'd like to see in the brain menu (because that's what it is, right?) is an option to reset fire modes for the assault rifle when switching away from it.
Plenty of quick weapon swapping going on and I've had the grenade launcher do more harm than good a few times now. Now, blowing yourself up is fun and all, buuuut... yeah.

SSG pickups, man. They're gone! I'd replace them with something. Lil' score boosts or something. Some mineral or whatever you convert into score? Could also add a multiplier you can purchase for something like this. Fairly cheap (and repeatable?) upgrade which just gives more score whenever you pick up a not-SSG.

More testing required. Soon...
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Re: Lithium [1.2 Update/Feb. 1]

Postby Marrub » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:49 pm

There will be an SSG slot weapon, but I do like the idea of trading rare items in for score. Will think about that, heh.
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Re: Lithium [1.2 Update/Feb. 1]

Postby Spaceman333 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:19 pm

I love the fully upgraded player movement in this mod, especially the shift-dodging. Would it be possible to take the movement system of this mod into universal addon to be used with other gameplay mods too?
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Re: Lithium [1.2 Update/Feb. 1]

Postby Marrub » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:35 am

I recommend Jetplane's mobility mod, it's got a lot more features than my system, heh. That said, it could pretty easily be done.
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Re: Lithium [1.2 Update/Feb. 1]

Postby Spaceman333 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:12 pm

Marrub wrote:I recommend Jetplane's mobility mod, it's got a lot more features than my system, heh. That said, it could pretty easily be done.


I didn't know that existed. Thank you! :)
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Re: Lithium [1.2 Update/Feb. 1]

Postby Spaceman333 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:06 am

Spaceman333 wrote:
Marrub wrote:I recommend Jetplane's mobility mod, it's got a lot more features than my system, heh. That said, it could pretty easily be done.


I didn't know that existed. Thank you! :)


I finally tested it out and its quite nifty in a different way. It only allows for forward sliding (not sideways) and has a stamina system that limits how often I can do it. The latch feature was really cool tho. Sadly the stamina meter prevents extended use of this and it can't be used for scaling walls. Still, definitely an awesome addon nonetheless.

If you could release the sideways(or omnidirectional) sliding in Lithium as a universal addon, that would be plenty appreciated be me. Just that simple shift+direction makes a hell of a lot of difference for moment to moment combat experience, being really enjoyable to do. That alone is one my most favorite parts about this mod.
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Re: Lithium [1.2 Update/Feb. 1]

Postby Ikazu-san » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:30 am

Spaceman333 wrote:Sadly the stamina meter prevents extended use of this and it can't be used for scaling walls.

That's not entirely true. Considering how wall latch works, you can just mash your way onto the towers.
Speaking(on topic) of mobility, Jet Boots probably need little upgrade. Either increased movement speed while flying or slightly longer flight time.
Also, suggestions for HUD: Indicator for which damage Reactive Armor protects you right now.
And special numbers for secondary/tertiary weapons.Something like 3' for Laser Shotgun and 3. for SSG.
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Re: Lithium [1.2 Update/Feb. 1]

Postby kadu522 » Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:06 pm

I think it is a good idea to also add general upgrades, in case some of the normal upgrades don't interest you like the adrelanine injector.
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