Special Weapons: Updated 01-24-17

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Re: Special Weapons: Updated 12-24-16

Postby Josh771 » Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:44 am

Aghck, dammit! I had similar problems testing here, but I ironed them all out. There is clearly some difference between our setups; maybe I've got some old CVars hanging around changing things? I'll give this another look. :?

EDIT: Type this into the console to fix the problem:
Code: Select allExpand view
cl_step_volmul 1

I'll put a more permanent solution up momentarily. Done.

EDIT 2: Quick hotfix made; also added "cl_MoveTilt" to toggle the camera rolling (does not affect death camera). Just re-download the mod and everything should work as intended.

I also wanted to address the feelings about health regen - feelings which I honestly share in most cases. I had rationalized this particular case for myself as basically being grazing wounds and minor injuries, things that you could ignore in the long run. That is why the rate of regeneration is slower the closer to 75 health you get, and below that you only begin to accelerate into bleeding to death. It's based on probability on a randomly fluctuating timer; if you've got 99 health, chances are you'll be at 100 in a few seconds. If you've got 74 or 75 health, you'll probably be pretty stable there, although you might recover or start to bleed. And of course if you're at, say, 20 health, you'd better find some medical supplies because your time is limited.

But I'm always open to revision. I mostly implemented the bleed/heal feature to kill off players that are limping around at 10 or less health and find themselves too debilitated to do much. Which is in turn due to me feeling like it would be more realistic to just bleed the player out than to expect them to execute feats of daring with bodies riddled full of holes, burns, and lacerations. :P Part of me wants to make this a "lite" realistic experience, but I'm not sure where I would be overstepping the "lite" boundary. Guess it's just another theme to discuss in the subject of this project and its direction.
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Re: Special Weapons: Updated 12-25-16

Postby ZikShadow » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:18 am

Hmm, you have a point there.
I'll try out the new stuff and see if it sticks.
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Re: Special Weapons: Updated 01-06-17

Postby Josh771 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:59 am

I have been silently working on Special Weapons this past week and am at a point where I would like to probe the minds of those who play it:

I am currently developing the alternative weapon loadout systems and would like to know which weapons, among the ones currently implemented, should be considered "heavy" for the weight-based loadout rule? Just LMGs? Or should we count Sniper Rifles as "heavy"?

Other features that have been in development include a special difficulty setting that is... well, a little experimental fun I was having. It's something like a survival/horror gamemode instead of just another difficulty setting. I've also revamped a lot of the footstep / camera tilt / wounding ACS - for instance, you always sprint at true full speed, without a limp, but you use more stamina the more injured you are. Oh, and I put the 3 micro SMGs - the Skorpion, Mac-11, and Micro-Uzi - on the secondary weapon slot and I've really enjoyed that. I eliminated auto-reloads so you can fire till a weapon runs dry and switch to another; also slightly increased the speed at which the M1 and SPAS-12 reload.

Actually, I might as well upload what I have while I work on the loadout rules...

EDIT: I've got the first version with loadout rules finished. I haven't fully tested them, but I will say this: *DO NOT CHANGE LOADOUT RULES MID-GAME.* If you do, you should start a new game or your current session will experience weird behaviors when dropping and picking up new weapons.
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Re: Special Weapons: Updated 01-06-17

Postby Josh771 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:39 am

Bumping because new version is released!
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Re: Special Weapons: Updated 01-06-17

Postby ZikShadow » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:38 pm

Goodness gracious me, i was just about to complain about that dreadful auto-reload, here i was trying to unload everything to a cyberdemon and got stuck reloading the blasted gun while his friends obliterate me.
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Re: Special Weapons: Updated 01-06-17

Postby Wolfbrf » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:55 pm

I think, all support/hmg/launchers can be a heavy weapon.
Example: a scoped 7.62 still normal, but a scoped .50(one hit kill) i s heavy.
I dont see reason to use a pump action shotgun if players can select a full auto shotgun, auto shotgun need to be heavy.
Explosives do high dagame, also has splash damage = heavy
Riot shields is heavy, because you use one hand to hold the shield and other do hold the pistol.
Flamers do Insane damage on close range, also has splash damage = heavy

Its just few exaples.
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Re: Special Weapons: Updated 01-06-17

Postby Deii » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:41 pm

Wolfbrf wrote:I think, all support/hmg/launchers can be a heavy weapon.
Example: a scoped 7.62 still normal, but a scoped .50(one hit kill) i s heavy.
I dont see reason to use a pump action shotgun if players can select a full auto shotgun, auto shotgun need to be heavy.
Explosives do high dagame, also has splash damage = heavy
Riot shields is heavy, because you use one hand to hold the shield and other do hold the pistol.
Flamers do Insane damage on close range, also has splash damage = heavy

Its just few exaples.


Not to sound mean-spirited or anything, but as someone who understands firearms and who-uses-what to a rather decent degree there's a lot of wrong points in your logic but for the sake of keeping things in topic, keep in mind you cited some gear that is simply not present in the mod (and we already know what Sid's position of adding things outside of Rainbow Six 3's arsenal is). Even the M72 LAW is kinda pushing it when you take in account SWAT and whatnot are basically glorified law enforcement.

@Sid

I voted for other because technically speaking, for the sake of making things simple all LMG's/GPMG's, some sniper rifles (anything that uses 7.62 and upwards of that) and the USAS-12 are all pretty heavy.
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Re: Special Weapons: Updated 01-06-17

Postby Captain J » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:30 pm

I voted M82A1 and light machine guns. Because well, they they have long barrel, always looking bigger and has lots of or large bullets as an ammunition.
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Re: Special Weapons: Updated 01-06-17

Postby Big C » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:07 am

Voted for LMGs, anti-tank rifles, and other (shoulder-fired rocket launchers and possibly rotary/magazine-fed grenade launchers, but NOT single-shot grenade launchers like the HK69 and M79).
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Re: Special Weapons: Updated 01-06-17

Postby Josh771 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:35 pm

I notice many replies seem to be in the spirit of helping me figure out game balance, but I'm not really interested in the least in balance. I'm already an obsessive number-tweaker, so balance is going to be something I constantly look to establish - whether in the frequency of drops or in damage values. However, there is a certain threshold of realism I do not intend to break, even for the sake of balance. Different people have different senses of "fun," and my own involves never breaking the expectations one has from real experience.

That means I would never, for instance, make a big sniper rifle take ridiculously long to reload if there isn't a real-life reason for it, or I would never make one gun so weak that it's questionable whether it uses bullets or just very fast foam darts. :P Honestly I have a hard time arguing to myself that these larger monsters should be able to absorb as many bullets as they do, but luckily they don't exist: I can make them as resilient as I like for balance.

Eh, I guess I just wanted to air out my philosophy on realism in games. It doesn't make sense for SWAT or other special forces agents to be using things like rotary grenade launchers and stuff like that. But I still might add them - just not as options for loadout - and it's for one reason: the game's setting is utter fantasy. I can't argue that you wouldn't find flamethrowers and missile launchers on futuristic space stations or in demonic strongholds. I can just look the other way.

But, for now, and for the sake of keeping the mod visually consistent while also trying to iron out its feature set with some finality, I'd like to postpone adding new weapons. I may lax up on my original position when everything gets more settled.

========== ========== ==========
Now that I've given my little dissertation... :P

Thanks, all, for the feedback! :)

Good points were made about the sizes and weights of weapons - I am especially glad to be given specifics by some of you that voted "Other." I am very likely to consider the USAS-12 a heavy weapon, which will balance it and make the player more likely to feel out the M1 and SPAS-12 instead of just jumping for the big guns. I will probably consider any 7.62 sniper rifle as heavy, although I wonder whether the WA-2000 (the compact .30 sniper) should just be considered a primary weapon.

The subject is still up for debate/discussion, if anyone would like to make any solid points about any of the weapons - I am totally willing to label one of the assault rifles "heavy" if someone had a good enough argument, just for example. You guys have been very helpful and I appreciate your input; a lot of this is stuff about which I have no strong opinion and no personal experience. Sometimes I just prefer community feedback to trying to research everything.
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Re: Special Weapons: Updated 01-06-17

Postby lizardcommando » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:47 pm

I just started playing this mod today. I'm really loving it so far. The game feels pretty intense due to the damage the enemies can do to you. Are you going to add in different grenades like flash bangs or smoke grenades later on? Also, is there a way to zoom in with any of the weapons? Is there also a way to stop from bleeding out?
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Re: Special Weapons: Updated 01-06-17

Postby Josh771 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:43 pm

Glad you like it! :) I'm definitely planning grenades; might be the next thing I should add, actually. I've already finished the smoke generator for the smoke grenades in decorate (they can be summoned in-game).

The smoke grenades will actually give you an "invisibility" powerup that doesn't affect your appearance and which wears off immediately if you leave the smoke cloud. This way the AI will have a hard time aiming at you if you smoke a doorway before you pass through it. Unfortunately, I don't know of any way to make the smoke actually block monster line of sight - that would be fantastic.

For sniper rifles and scoped assault rifles (AUG, G36K, L85A1), you'll need to bind a "Weapon Zoom" key.

You won't bleed out if you have at least 50 health. There is currently no way to stop bleeding except to get your health higher than 50, although you'll actually slowly recover to 100 if your health is 75 or more.

It's less about "bleeding" and more supposed to represent the seriousness of your wounds: if you're recovering, it's because you took some bumps, bruises, and maybe a grazing bullet wound. If you're stable, you've got some serious injuries, but they're not immediately life-threatening. If you're bleeding out, you've got a mortal wound of some kind that needs extensive work or you're dead.
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Re: Special Weapons: Updated 01-06-17

Postby Wolfbrf » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:04 am

[Unfortunately, I don't know of any way to make the smoke actually block monster line of sight - that would be fantastic.


A_give inventory can solve it. Each time the Smoke "hit" a enemy, it give a inventory item(example: Smoke blind), it reduce the accuracy a lof.

See:
Tnta a 1 a_Jumpifminventory("Smokeblind",1,"blindsee")
....
Tnta a 1 a_takeinvenfory("Smokeblind",1)

Missile:
Tnta a 1 a_Jumpifminventory("Smokeblind",1,"blindfire")
......

Brutal hexen rpg use something like it for toch(blind some monsters), but with a far more complex code
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Re: Special Weapons: Updated 01-06-17

Postby Josh771 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:18 pm

That is a handy solution for monsters standing *in* smoke, but I'm talking about a situation more like this:
Code: Select allExpand view
M.........sSs..........P

The (M)onster is standing outside of the (sSs)moke cloud, and so is the (P)layer. I can't see the monster because of the smoke, but he can see me. Perhaps there is some secret hackery to be done with line attacks, actor flags, and some terrifying amalgam of ACS and DECORATE, but I'm not going to even attempt it until I get the grenades implemented.
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Re: Special Weapons: Updated 01-11-17

Postby Josh771 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:57 am

=== Change Log===
• Increased players' starting ammunition
• Zombie riflemen now drop SMGs and 5.56 assault rifles with equal likelihood
• Shotgun guys are no longer able to drop the USAS-12
• Chaingun guys now drop LMGs and 7.62 assault rifles with equal likelihood
• Stats for micro SMGs modified to better reflect performance without foregrip
• Modified damage output of MAC-11 and Micro-Uzi


I've uploaded a small balance update today! It should be much easier to rely on a 5.56 rifle now if you have plenty of rifle zeds to knock down. You should also be able to keep 7.62 ammo stocked if you run into enough chaingun guys. As far as demon-heavy maps with little conventional resistance, I'm not sure how well balanced the scattered ammunition drops are; I wouldn't mind some feedback on that if anyone's noticed any significant problems.

So, grenades... I may start work on frag grenades. That's a good place to start, I think. Then smokes. Smoke and frag grenades; I'm unsure what I'll do for flashbangs, although I think for CS gas I'll just deal 0 damage, force pain, and use a custom pain state. Maybe flashbangs can do some "radius give" magic and make monsters jump to a See state where they wander at random and fire in random directions until the effect wears off.

Oh, and I was also considering making a variant of each zombie for every weapon in the game, and also adding monster reloads. This would mean a pistol zombie might come at you with a .50 Desert Eagle or MAC-11, or that a rifle zombie might use a MP5SD5, etc. Opinions?
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