MetaDoom v7.1 "Ghost" (UPDATED!!! p127)

Projects that alter game functions but do not include new maps belong here.
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Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

Postby Princess Viscra Maelstrom » Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:17 pm

but Doom has never had a carriable light amp powerup, and the prevalence of darkness has been somewhat of a theme in the series. the pistol is already stronger and more useful than all the pistols from the other Doom games, and it is infinite ammo. i don't really get why this is such a point of content, honestly.
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Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

Postby HyperLuke » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:14 pm

Captain J wrote:
HyperLuke wrote:- Minigun runs out of ammo way to quick.
Of course, she weighs sixteen sixty six kilograms and fires two hell-forged bullets at ten thousand rounds per minute...

What i actually saying is, while it has greater rate of fire and damage, it also has disadvantages to choke on. Like it spends more ammo than machine gun. If minigun actually consumed less ammo, machine gun would have been useless.

Also it's same with pistol's flashlight. It would have been useless without the light.

I understand why it should have a faster rate of fire compared to the Assault Rifle, but IMO the max bullets ammo should be larger.

Kinsie wrote: Spaceman333 wrote:
Ah, I hate to say it as it comes off as I'm forcing my will here, but I would really like to see this mod adopt the NC Hud.
The current HUD just feels cramped and unstylish with its concrete texture.

Something like this would be more enjoyable (NC Hud in JohnnyDoom):
https://s12.postimg.org/szlo28e2l/Scree ... 003037.jpg
I've heard some complaints about the current HUD, and I understand them. Ideally, the minimum HUD would be fairly different and more Doom 3-ish. However, if you'd please listen to my counter-argument of Fuck SBARINFO, I'm sure we can come to an understanding. :)

HyperLuke wrote:
- Increased range of Lightning Rifles Primary Fire.
Done. In the next version it'll reach 1.5x further and do a little more damage.
HyperLuke wrote:
- Seems to be a short delay between the Super Shotgun finishing reloading and being able to fire it.
There was a reason for this... I forget what it was off-hand, but there was one...
HyperLuke wrote:
- Weapon switching time should be shorter.
I'm pretty sure it's faster than in the base game already.
HyperLuke wrote:
- Minigun runs out of ammo way to quick.
I tweaked this a little for the next version.
HyperLuke wrote:
- Flashlight should be mapped to a key, not a altfire for a weapon.
This would render the Light-Amp kind of useless.
HyperLuke wrote:
- Music for titlescreen and intermission screen are superb, there should be more music like it in this mod.
I've inflated the filesize with enough music, I think. Grab the music mod of your choice and use it to play along!
HyperLuke wrote:
Just as an idea, why not add an upgrade system? It would increase the unlockables and replay value.
I'd rather not. It's already hard enough to see certain things, and D4D has already taken weapon upgrade systems to their logical conclusion... for better and for worse.

The weapon switching is faster than the base game, but not by much, also, other mods like Brutal Doom or D4D have near instant weapon switches, would make it easier to use multiple weapons in a firefight.

I understand about the upgrade system, I don't know how hard it must be to add that stuff in.
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Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:17 pm

Viscra Maelstrom wrote:but Doom has never had a carriable light amp powerup


So? Doom never has had a flashlight mounted on a weapon either; in Doom 3, you had to constantly switch between your weapon and a portable flashlight.

the pistol is already stronger and more useful than all the pistols from the other Doom games, and it is infinite ammo.


The pistol looks just like its Doom 2016 counterpart, which has a Charge Shot. Because of that, I keep accidentally activating the flashlight.

and the prevalence of darkness has been somewhat of a theme in the series


Only in Doom 3. Most levels in Classic Doom and even Doom 64 are actually pretty well lit and were obviously designed to be easily naviguated without Light Amp, given its rarity.

i don't really get why this is such a point of content, honestly.


I just find Kinsie's reasoning here absurd. Also, I continue to think the Pistol's altfire should be something actually useful.
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Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

Postby isaacpop23 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:56 pm

JohnnyTheWolf wrote:I continue to think the Pistol's altfire should be something actually useful.

It is useful, I like having something that normalizes the light in front of me. While not absolutely needed, none of the altfires are, it's just a nice thing on the side, and it's certainly not the least useful altfire.

Also, a trick you can use to maximize the light amplification of the screen, look directly down. It bathes the entire screen in light so it's always the same light level! It's like a legal hack! :D
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Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:15 am

isaacpop23 wrote:
JohnnyTheWolf wrote:I continue to think the Pistol's altfire should be something actually useful.
It is useful, I like having something that normalizes the light in front of me. While not absolutely needed, none of the altfires are, it's just a nice thing on the side, and it's certainly not the least useful altfire.


The Flashlight does not kill monsters or heal you, so yes, it is by far the least useful altfire.

Again, a portable light amplification visor would be much more useful, as it would allow you to see better without having to constantly revert to the Pistol.
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Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

Postby Kinsie » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:25 am

JohnnyTheWolf wrote:So? Doom never has had a flashlight mounted on a weapon either; in Doom 3, you had to constantly switch between your weapon and a portable flashlight.
The choice to mount the flashlight onto the Pistol is a reference of sorts to the infamous Duct Tape mod, which stuck a mini-flashlight to the Shotgun and Machine Gun and was, for better or worse, was a sizable piece of Doom 3's legacy to the point where Id completely redesigned the flashlight mechanic in BFG Edition in response.

Despite this change, every iteration of Doom 3's flashlight has had its own unique trade-offs and compromises. The original version is blunt - you can't use any other weapon at the same time. The Duct Tape mod's mini-flashlight has a much narrower beam. The BFG Edition was shoulder-mounted, but had an extremely limited charge. The entire character of that strand of Doom 3's DNA was compromise, and to recreate it without that piece of the puzzle in some form would frankly be dishonest.

Since both the Shotgun and Assault Rifle already had obvious alt-fires, and the Light Amp had an obvious place in the game design that probably shouldn't be messed with, the Pistol seemed like a reasonable place to put it. (It also provided a nice point of differentiation from every other Doom 2016 remake mod, which was a nice little bonus!)

JohnnyTheWolf wrote:The pistol looks just like its Doom 2016 counterpart, which has a Charge Shot. Because of that, I keep accidentally activating the flashlight.
Image Only the "circle light" unit is taken from Doom 2016. The base is from Doom 1, and the barrel is from Doom 3.

JohnnyTheWolf wrote:Only in Doom 3. Most levels in Classic Doom and even Doom 64 are actually pretty well lit and were obviously designed to be easily naviguated without Light Amp, given its rarity.
Dimly-lit corridors have been a part of Doom's DNA ever since the flickery maze in E1M2 of the shareware IWAD. That these corridors are typically easier to see in with your GL settings does not change that. (Also, check out the guy who never squinted his way through Doom 64 on actual hardware!)

JohnnyTheWolf wrote:I just find Kinsie's reasoning here absurd. Also, I continue to think the Pistol's altfire should be something actually useful.
You're welcome to disagree with me. You're also welcome to grab the source code from the GitHub link in the OP and make this mod as much like D4D as you want.
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Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

Postby whatup876 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:24 am

As someone who really likes this mod and is interested on its concept, i have some questions in regards of whether or not you would add the artifact and grabber from Roe and Quad Damage (since it was in Doom 4)

1. would the artifact be an extremely rare weapon, inventory item or a power up?
2. would Quad damage be a variant for berserk?
3. would its design be a sphere with a face in it?
4. what would the grabber's alt fire be if there was one?

Just for curiosity.
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Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

Postby Kinsie » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:10 am

whatup876 wrote:As someone who really likes this mod and is interested on its concept, i have some questions in regards of whether or not you would add the artifact and grabber from Roe and Quad Damage (since it was in Doom 4)

1. would the artifact be an extremely rare weapon, inventory item or a power up?
2. would Quad damage be a variant for berserk?
3. would its design be a sphere with a face in it?
4. what would the grabber's alt fire be if there was one?

Just for curiosity.
1.) The Artifact would be a rare inventory item. It would, at the very least, activate Time Freeze for a few seconds upon activation.
2.) This is one of those things I grapple with. What would the best way to implement it be without obsoleting Berserk or compromising maps that rely on the placement of Berserk as a 100% health pickup?
3.) Following the Doom 2016 design (purple sphere with a screamy skull) is probably the go here.
4.) Without any previous planning on this and just shooting ideas from the hip, probably using cells to perform the Hexen Disc of Repulsion effect or something like that?
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Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

Postby whatup876 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:19 am

Kinsie wrote:
whatup876 wrote:As someone who really likes this mod and is interested on its concept, i have some questions in regards of whether or not you would add the artifact and grabber from Roe and Quad Damage (since it was in Doom 4)

1. would the artifact be an extremely rare weapon, inventory item or a power up?
2. would Quad damage be a variant for berserk?
3. would its design be a sphere with a face in it?
4. what would the grabber's alt fire be if there was one?

Just for curiosity.
1.) The Artifact would be a rare inventory item. It would, at the very least, activate Time Freeze for a few seconds upon activation.
2.) This is one of those things I grapple with. What would the best way to implement it be without obsoleting Berserk or compromising maps that rely on the placement of Berserk as a 100% health pickup?
3.) Following the Doom 2016 design (purple sphere with a screamy skull) is probably the go here.
4.) Without any previous planning on this and just shooting ideas from the hip, probably using cells to perform the Hexen Disc of Repulsion effect or something like that?


I'd assume QD could appear less often than berserk but who knows
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Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

Postby whatup876 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:24 am

Also, because of maps using berserk for 100% health, what if Quad could give at least a few points of health, or spawn near/replace the ammo backpacks?
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Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

Postby zrrion the insect » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:42 pm

Quad damage replacing the blur sphere might work? I've never understood how exactly those are meant to be used though, so it would probably break things there.
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Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

Postby whatup876 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:45 pm

zrrion the insect wrote:Quad damage replacing the blur sphere might work? I've never understood how exactly those are meant to be used though, so it would probably break things there.


If you meant the soulsphere (i think that's what's called), it gives you 100 more points of health
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Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

Postby Princess Viscra Maelstrom » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:16 pm

i'd be for the blursphere being replaced with quad damage. i can't think of many instances in which the evasiveness against bullets would be more useful than being able to blow up everything fast. either that, or make it have a rare chance of replacing the blursphere instead, so as to make it more of an event when you do get it.

Kinsie wrote: (Also, check out the guy who never squinted his way through Doom 64 on actual hardware!)

i think this is one of the reasons i never finished the game on my actual game cart...
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Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

Postby Techokami » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:09 pm

Viscra Maelstrom wrote:i'd be for the blursphere being replaced with quad damage. i can't think of many instances in which the evasiveness against bullets would be more useful than being able to blow up everything fast. either that, or make it have a rare chance of replacing the blursphere instead, so as to make it more of an event when you do get it.

The Blursphere has already been replaced with the Hastesphere, though.
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Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

Postby whatup876 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:18 pm

Techokami wrote:
Viscra Maelstrom wrote:i'd be for the blursphere being replaced with quad damage. i can't think of many instances in which the evasiveness against bullets would be more useful than being able to blow up everything fast. either that, or make it have a rare chance of replacing the blursphere instead, so as to make it more of an event when you do get it.

The Blursphere has already been replaced with the Hastesphere, though.


I thought Haste was replacing the invisibility power up because Kinsie said it wasn't good on SP on his Tumblr
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