MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (🪓 p123)

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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

Postby whatup876 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:39 pm

Hellknight's sprites were made when a better alternative wasn't there but the D4V/T "classic" sprite version doesn't have some frames to fit the jump and slam attack.
The Beholder seems replaced now, which is neat and keeping the green is great for both DRPG representation and color variation.
But i think a mishmash of art styles is also expecting, not just because of the present/potential resources but even the idea of the mod alone.

Depending on how long the update takes, images of Doom Eternal's DLC 2 has been leaked.
Spoilers aside, 15 of March will have an official teaser.

The Carcass may never get in but i thought of a weird way to make his shield work:
* It's mixed with the "floor projectile" attack he has (that is also for the Whiplash and Tyrant) so when the projectile is either close enough to the player or in a certain distance/time, it turns into a shield wall.
* Time of wall transformation and projectile speed could need tweaking
* The floor projectile could home/chase the player a bit, as if the Carcass was piloting it
* This also means the Carcass could be frozen/busy when using this ability, as if he was busy controlling the floor projectile that soon turns into a wall
* The player can cancel the wall shield by shooting the Carcass in this state
* Any weapon can destroy the wall shield but cell energy weapons (and some others like Tesla rocket or BFG) can destroy it faster and make it explode (only damaging enemies)
* Gauss cannon could destroy it instantly
* How much time the shield stays present is another factor
* It would also have to happen in more open spaces
* The actual shape of the wall could be considered too, if it's not similar to the player's own wall shield
Meanwhile, it's main attack could be the ring projectile barrage, which means the Carcass could fit as a slot for the Arachnotron, but with a bit less health than the typical Arachnotron.
Or maybe, we could wait and see how Kar En Tuk does him too.
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

Postby Kinsie » Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:40 am

An earlier version of this video Did Numbers, so I should probably link it here: A new (in every sense of the word) toy for level designers!
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

Postby ShockwaveS08 » Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:01 pm

Given how the 21:9 aspect ratio is becoming more than a novelty, will the Fire Axe sprites be redone to take advantage of the increased screen width? As-is, the attack sprites get cut off at the 16:9 "borders", leaving awkward blank spaces at anything wider.
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

Postby snarkel » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:36 pm

I've been playing through this a lot recently after not having played it for a while and first I just want to say this still probably remains one of my favorite gameplay mods when I just want to pick up and play doom. I've been following your updates and checking the github frequently and am excited for the next update you are working on.

With how much I've been playing recently I wish there was feedback I could provide that you haven't already heard, but most things work well and seem pretty balanced. I've only noticed a bug with a majority of powerups not getting their codex entries even after picking them up and using them. I'm not sure if that's just on my end or not. Otherwise I only have a nitpick with the Chaingun feeling a bit weak? It could just be me but I feel like compared to the the Machinegun and even the Plasma Rifle the Chaingun just doesn't feel like it has enough damage per shot to justify how much ammo it takes.

I also saw discussion of Spirits maybe being a mapping thing and it got me wondering. While I'm not entirely sure if they add it themselves, get permissions from creators, or if other people add it themselves, I know ObAddon has a few extras for spawning gameplay mod items into maps, like QCDE's loot boxes, D4T's actors, and Hideous Destructor cover walls. Perhaps you could maybe add it in (and potentially other items) to potentially be included in that?

Aside from all of that, everything is fine and dandy and I wish you the best of luck on future MetaDoom and non-MetaDoom ventures!
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

Postby whatup876 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:26 pm

From the Github version i played:
* The flame belch can hurt both the player and demons; now that's new but when you move to the next levels, the flames stay on for a bit. (which i guess makes sense and forces players to make more use of the FE)
* The flames also can't stay on water, again, attention to detail expected from a Kinsie mod. that's great
* The Titantula's second phase means you have to "kill it twice", so it can even survive a quad damage Soulcube. not sure if you can code specific damage numbers to literally kill it, even before the grenade phase.
* That one e3m3 remix from the intermission by Hulshult is gone, but it's probably just a matter of taste or something to do with wads having their own intermission songs.
* Phantoms no longer have green flames on them.

I wonder if you plan for the Infernis to soon have Eternal model sprites but red, like the Beholder.
I've also yet to actually encounter the Demonic Troopers. (who right now are the Acolyte from Strife)
How do they spawn exactly?

Not sure what is there to take from Eternal's TAG 2 because i thought the Cursed Prowler's poison mechanic was actually new (and fitting with the basic enemy abilities you'd get from your typical mod), even if you have to tweak it a bit, so it's timed and there's no restriction on how you kill whatever beast shoots the "curse" to the player.
Even then, i always thought Gargoyles could have had a poison/acid attack instead of the teleporting and sometimes-3-fireball-shooting Prowlers, already represented by the Imp Lords before Eternal was even announced.
Another problem with Eternal could be how updates handle the game's content and the fact that you can't normally get the Doomicorn skin anymore.

Besides Spirits, there's also Screechers.
I also wonder if you're even interested in adding the Marauder at all, because besides the potentially incompatible gameplay, this move hasn't acknowledge the lore of the Sentinel. (but recently,they just said the Dark Lord is not the real main entity or whatever, so what the fuck is lore anymore, right?)
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

Postby Kinsie » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:57 pm

whatup876 wrote:I wonder if you plan for the Infernis to soon have Eternal model sprites but red, like the Beholder.
I've also yet to actually encounter the Demonic Troopers. (who right now are the Acolyte from Strife)
How do they spawn exactly?
The Infernis will get its own sprites soon, I wanted to get the gameplay down first. They spawn Demonic Troopers if you leave them alone.

whatup876 wrote:I also wonder if you're even interested in adding the Marauder at all
I have some ideas on how to handle the Marauder...
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

Postby SiFi270 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:34 am

Oh, I was wondering about Demonic Troopers. I thought they could accompany the Icon of Sin with their own Unmaker and whatever Demon Keys the player missed, but that'd probably be too frustrating.
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

Postby Kinsie » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:01 am

I'm not adding an Eternal-style Icon to MetaDoom because giant monsters in the Doom engine universally suck - especially when they're sprites - and I'm probably not going to touch the BossBrain setup because I don't feel like breaking a million Boom mapsets any further than I already have.
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

Postby SiFi270 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:47 am

I made that post before seeing that the troopers (or at least their sprites) had already been implemented in the current build. I thought there might have been a way to have a traditional Icon spawn some specific monsters first before getting to the random ones, but I'm not sure why I'm saying all this to someone with a much better understanding of balance/what's practical to implement/what they want.
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

Postby whatup876 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:03 pm

If the Infernis/Eternal vile sprites are painted red (because of Doom RPG), i wonder if you've thought of Battlemode skins as reference.
Like this one for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA3wk0-V4ss even though these are usually time based, i think there could be a model somewhere.
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

Postby Bobby » Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:26 pm

I have a suggestion. The ability to switch alt-fires on weapons. The shotgun could get a auto mod, the smg a scope, etc. Also, how about recoloring the gauss cannon to also resemble the ballista. Lastly, maybe add the crucible or doom hammer.
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

Postby Kinsie » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:25 am

Bobby wrote:I have a suggestion. The ability to switch alt-fires on weapons. The shotgun could get a auto mod, the smg a scope, etc.
Not happening, sorry.

Bobby wrote:Also, how about recoloring the gauss cannon to also resemble the ballista.
Not planned, but I might make some sprite adjustments to it at some point to incorporate Ballista Bits.

Bobby wrote:Lastly, maybe add the crucible or doom hammer.
Crucible probably won't happen because I can't think of a good way to shoehorn in the ammo mechanic. The hammer has a good chance of happening, though!
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

Postby Miru » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:42 pm

Kinsie wrote:Crucible probably won't happen because I can't think of a good way to shoehorn in the ammo mechanic. The hammer has a good chance of happening, though!


Darn... Well, at least we're likely getting the blunt melee weapon this mod needs for more variety.
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

Postby ShockwaveS08 » Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:07 pm

Found some bugs in the latest devbuild.

1) If you die from your own Flame Belch, the obituary erroneously states that you "did a backflip into the lava".

2) Dying at the exact tic that a gadget is finished recharging (yellow screen flash, first beep) will cause the ready sound/screenflash to play rapidly and indefinitely.

3) Lines 128, 145, and 252 within Metahud.ZSC (regarding drawing the shells for the Ammo Bar), may cause a VM abort at random, trying to read from "address zero". Experienced in Doom 64: Retribution (Consolation Prize Version), Outpost Omega, seemingly while rapidly Berserk-punching enemies.
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

Postby Kinsie » Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:10 am

Thanks for the heads up, I think I've addressed all of these to some extent.
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