MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (UPDATED!! p115)

Postby Grizzly » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:04 am

Hmm, the forced blood fade option doesn't seem to work as advertised.
Never had to use it until I played Eviternity xD
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (UPDATED!! p115)

Postby Sgt. Ham » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:43 pm

So this is the only bug I found with the new update...

https://imgur.com/a/qgvg1z8

On Eviternity, the BFG9000's alt-fire blasts demons with chandeliers for some reason

On another unrelated note, I think the imgur link thing on this site is broken for me
Last edited by Sgt. Ham on Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (UPDATED!! p115)

Postby Gez » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:24 pm

Well it should work when the link is actually valid.
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (UPDATED!! p115)

Postby Grizzly » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:36 am

being able to pick up the homing mines doesn't make too much sense now that they are on a timer (picking them up doesn't reset the timer either).
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (UPDATED!! p115)

Postby Whoah » Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:00 pm

Gotta say, I am really digging the use of cooldowns instead of a shared ammo pool. It makes me feel like I can afford to use them more often! Great stuff, Kinsie!

Oh and I have a possibly stupid, possibly broken, definitely unnecessary idea/suggestion: spawn filters based on the games in the series. For example, if someone has it set to Doom 3, enemies like the trites, Zsec, bull demon etc. and weapons like the machinegun and soulcube would spawn much more frequently or be easier to come across. Same for a Doom 2016 spawn filter or any other game in the series. It would definitely be unbalanced, and probably kinda gimmicky, but I think it would be neat to see, and something I could see myself having a lot of fun with. This is all also coming from someone with barely any knowledge of how to code. Regardless, I'm excited to see what you got planned
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (UPDATED!! p115)

Postby Chris » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:59 pm

The cooldown on items honestly feels like it enables cheese-mode. Once I pick up a grenade, it's like I have an infinite-ammo grenade launcher. Sure there's a cooldown, but it's rather short, and except in close quarters (where I couldn't safely use them anyway), it's not hard to keep your distance and dodge behind cover, giving you several opportunities to lob out decent-radius, decent-damage explosives. Presuming the enemy can even get close to you. I can only imagine what it'll be like for the kinetic grenades, which already felt like cheating with the shared ammo pool given how much you could use it by picking up unrelated normal grenades and dog collars and stuff.

And yeah, as someone else alluded to, once you pick up a given item, being able to pick up more doesn't make any sense since it doesn't give you anything.
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (UPDATED!! p115)

Postby eltiolavara9 » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:40 am

agreed on the item thing, i think combining the regular non-shared inventory with it would make the most sense (it could be a option ig)
also i keep having this incredibly weird bug where the game freezes but not really? like, the screen's frozen but i can still move and hear the monsters, and i can't make it go away
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (UPDATED!! p115)

Postby Sgt. Ham » Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:23 pm



Sorry. Just fixed the link now
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (UPDATED!! p115)

Postby Sallyspartan » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:53 pm

Hey Kinsie, I've been trying to get started making a map with Ultimate Doom Builder, but every time I try to use either a directory or PK3 resource of Meta Doom, I get a whole bunch of errors. Mainly two errors repeating for each new asset:
"Fail to apply MAPINFO DoomEdNum Override "Insert any new actor here": failed to find corresponding actor class",
"GLDEFS warning in "metadoom_v666_titan\gldefs/weapons.gld", line 13. DECORATE class "insert new class here" does not exist."
I have a count of 243 errors. And no matter what I seem to try, there are no new Meta folders or subfolders in Edit things.

I'm still pretty new with Ultimate Doom Builder, only dabbled using base WAD resources, so I'm unsure if I am loading them under the wrong preset or if this is actually an issue due to an update.
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (UPDATED!! p115)

Postby Grizzly » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:47 am

Random feature suggestions
An "Accelerated" randomizer mode that guarantees enemy and weapon variants as soon as you have the base weapon or killed the previous variant, which fills the gap between locust and gradual
eg rather then there being a random chance for a weapon variant spawning, it'll now *always* spawn atleast once per map until you have all the weapon variants for that slot
Same with enemies: If you have a zombieman in your codex there's a guarantee for atleast one hell razer later.
Should be useful for maps that use "pretend episodes" for Doom 2, eg everything that uses a death exit (have a "recognize death exit" mode?)

Introduce doom 2 enemy variants into Doom 1: Have the baron of hell ocasionally be replaced by two hell knights or a mancubus, have a cacodemon ocasionally turn into a pain elemental, that sorta thing. Should give the supershotgun a chance to shine more too.

Have a BFG use normal plasma ammo option for maps that expect it (eg slaughtermaps)

Reintroduce the Doom 1 barons of hell (with twists) for E1m8 exclusively?

---

Also this mod is still great. You are great. Please continue being great :D
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (UPDATED!! p115)

Postby Kinsie » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:09 am

Grizzly wrote:Should be useful for maps that use "pretend episodes" for Doom 2, eg everything that uses a death exit (have a "recognize death exit" mode?)
This would be good, I'll have to hit the books and experiment on how to actually detect this.

Grizzly wrote:Introduce doom 2 enemy variants into Doom 1: Have the baron of hell ocasionally be replaced by two hell knights or a mancubus, have a cacodemon ocasionally turn into a pain elemental, that sorta thing. Should give the supershotgun a chance to shine more too.
I've been leaning towards doing some LevelProcessor fuckery for Doom Complete WadSmoosh that sneaks some Doom 2 monsters into Doom 1 in the same positions they were in in the PS1 version...

Grizzly wrote:Have a BFG use normal plasma ammo option for maps that expect it (eg slaughtermaps)
Good call, I'll try and remember to add that.

Grizzly wrote:Reintroduce the Doom 1 barons of hell (with twists) for E1m8 exclusively?
I've pondered adding lower tiers to the Hell Knight and Baron. I'll see what Eternal brings, if anything.

Grizzly wrote:Also this mod is still great. You are great. Please continue being great :D
Cheers!
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (UPDATED!! p115)

Postby Gez » Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:34 am

Kinsie wrote:
Grizzly wrote:Should be useful for maps that use "pretend episodes" for Doom 2, eg everything that uses a death exit (have a "recognize death exit" mode?)
This would be good, I'll have to hit the books and experiment on how to actually detect this.


Death exits generally are made by superposing a Romero head, voodoo doll, and a teleport destination, AFAIK. Detecting the close proximity of a voodoo doll and a Romero head could therefore serve as a strong hint.

Another possible approach is look at Episodic Ex and Universal Automatic Continuation and see if they could serve as inspiration/be lifted wholesale.
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (UPDATED!! p115)

Postby whatup876 » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:01 pm

After watching a random video of Doom 2 RPG from MetroidJunkie/VGamingJunkie , i noticed that the purple imp (Great Imp?) could shot a fireball that kept burning the player for a while, causing his health to drain for a bit.
Meaning that attack i suggested a while ago is kind of "canon" in Doom and if you're thinking of variants for the Hell nobles, the Bruiser from RoE with that attack, as an HK varaint could be a good idea. (maybe)
He was also playing the iOS version of the game and i can see where some sounds in MetaDoom actually come from, like the Sawcubus sounds which i thought came from the Doom 3 Sawyer or a version of it. (maybe both, but i need corrections)

Tried the new version and so far, nothing bad happened to me. (i thought the Syphon grenade's "field" wasn't working but then i noticed it actually working, so it might be me)

Someone on 4chan /vr/ (the Doom threads) said they may have issues with saving more than once on a single level or using inventory during certain enemy stuff like the Bull Demon charge.
Don't know why they wont make an account here but they had some issues with the mod but one is probably because he didn't update GZDoom and another was that he mixed the mod with Ketchup. (despite the mod having its own gore already)

Chris wrote:The cooldown on items honestly feels like it enables cheese-mode. Once I pick up a grenade, it's like I have an infinite-ammo grenade launcher. Sure there's a cooldown, but it's rather short, and except in close quarters (where I couldn't safely use them anyway), it's not hard to keep your distance and dodge behind cover, giving you several opportunities to lob out decent-radius, decent-damage explosives. Presuming the enemy can even get close to you. I can only imagine what it'll be like for the kinetic grenades, which already felt like cheating with the shared ammo pool given how much you could use it by picking up unrelated normal grenades and dog collars and stuff.

And yeah, as someone else alluded to, once you pick up a given item, being able to pick up more doesn't make any sense since it doesn't give you anything.


MetaDoom did have a unique way of handling the inventory compared to the other Doom 2016 inspired mods, partially because it was a Heretic/Hexen/etc homage, but also because resources feel more "Doom" than cooldowns.
It works with D4T because that mod seems to be more about "speed" and even has 2016's upgrade concept where even the ammo counts of your weapons starts off low.

MetaDoom on the other hand, keeps Doom's core gameplay to some degree. And a difference between old Doom and new Doom is that one was more about strategy and the other is more about aggressiveness. (something MatthewMatosis mentioned in one of his videos)

Then again, a problem people had with this mod was how there wasn't enough ammo, so there's some positive results out of this.
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (UPDATED!! p115)

Postby tuintje » Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:43 am

i like the new update as well but the grenades need a way bigger cd
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Re: MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (UPDATED!! p115)

Postby Finder153 » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:04 am

Chris wrote:The cooldown on items honestly feels like it enables cheese-mode. Once I pick up a grenade, it's like I have an infinite-ammo grenade launcher. Sure there's a cooldown, but it's rather short, and except in close quarters (where I couldn't safely use them anyway), it's not hard to keep your distance and dodge behind cover, giving you several opportunities to lob out decent-radius, decent-damage explosives. Presuming the enemy can even get close to you. I can only imagine what it'll be like for the kinetic grenades, which already felt like cheating with the shared ammo pool given how much you could use it by picking up unrelated normal grenades and dog collars and stuff.

And yeah, as someone else alluded to, once you pick up a given item, being able to pick up more doesn't make any sense since it doesn't give you anything.

Hey, I was going to write something simillar years ago. I suggested the grenade limit should be brought back but the cooldown kept. I'd also maybe suggest reducing the amount of grenade you can carry from 25 to 10 and increased to 20 when you pick up a backpack.
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