MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (Dev Blog! p118)

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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby Alptraum » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:24 am

The only thing I don't like about this mod is the machinegun from Doom 3. I never liked that weapon at all.

Except that, it's a decent mod ^^
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby whatup876 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:19 pm

I guess the idea is that there is two types of assault rifles in Doom and the 2016 one is represented as the alt fire, while 3 is meant for the design.
The gameplay role is pretty much the classic chaingun because later games split it into actual chainguns and assault rifles.

I also remembered that the Eternal design for the Revenant shows some differences like skull themed rocket launchers for example.

So if Fiend were to get some sprite changes just to look a bit more different from the regular Revenant (since they almost have the same silhouette), he could carry bigger shoulder launchers with spikes and skull related decorations.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby Iniquitatis » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:26 pm

Alptraum wrote:The only thing I don't like about this mod is the machinegun from Doom 3. I never liked that weapon at all.

Same here. It lacks some "punchiness" and feels pretty weak audiovisually (just like in the Doom 3).
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby whatup876 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:31 pm

At this point, maybe change the sounds of the weapon, since it already fires faster than the OG chaingun. (even if it's just a little, tiny bit)

On a different topic, i had an idea for a MetaDoom inspired mapset: intermission screens with locations and all like in D1. (expanded to represent other games)

Problem is: only the 3 first episodes have these buildings, so i thought of some ideas/solutions:

* maybe take sprites and parts from some textures, skyboxes or props and get creative.
* actually draw intrepertations of what the places would look like.
* maybe take some screenshots in certain angles and edit them up.
* maybe use a map builder to create a random building and screenshot that.
* or look up official/concept art, screenshots and assets from the newer games (3, 2016, Eternal), since they have actual locations instead of abstract ones.
* on that part above, see which fit with the other games.

Then again, this also depends on the ACTUAL levels, i suppose. (because it's not like we'll be referencing every level and at the very least, have some random parts of levels that represent something specific)

Edit: Just found someone doing a MetaDoom inspired map pack, apparently.

It's more focused on 1, 2 and Final Doom IWADS, so i guess other games may not be included.
Still, it looks cool and i guess that's a start.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby Miru » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:20 pm

The level pack’s author confirmed he will only be including elements from the four IWADs. I think a map pack representing all the series would still be worth it.

Also, some more suggestions:

D3 Caco would be the Caco-Spectre! The largely invisible beast foregoes orb attacks in favor of a lightning stream. It will also use a psionic hitscan thanks to its exposed brain, and a bite, along with the ability to charge at players at high speeds. It would only appear in low-light areas.

If we get civilian zombies, this would be an opportunity to have them use the fire extinguisher and axe weapons. Axe-wielding Zombies (engineers?) would be deadly when infighting with each other.

Chainstrosity would use the Doom 64 chainsaw for an increased damage speed and ratio. It is also a little slower than the regular Sawcubus, but with more HP. (Thus harder to pry the chainsaw off of them)

Zombie Troops would be the D64 former humans in yellow, armed with Super Shotguns. Lethal at point blank, but fragile, especially given that they have to reload.

Zombie Captains are a little harder, but maybe give them the rocket launcher? They stand still for a few moments before firing, though. A skull for a face, like some had in Doom 3, might make them distinct. Maybe they have a chance to catch fire if not gibbed, ala Bernie?

I think the Axe could get an alt-fire that chops downward. Or maybe even throwing the axe forward ala Hexen?

Infernis could be based on the D3 Arch-Vile (summoning instead of reviving), though perhaps we could use some of the unused designs from 64/D3 like “Birdman” for this one and Apollyon. Maybe give it attacks similar to a Heretic wizard?
Last edited by Miru on Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby whatup876 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:45 pm

I remember the Cacodemon in 2016 having a "blinding" ability but that can be the opposite of fun and some Stadia footage i saw gave the Eternal one a "sprint" to get close to the player.

Speaking of other zombietypes, the Eternal cyber zombies have a single flamethrower, which could work as the closest thing to an enemy having a lighting gun-esque attack.
There's also the explosive engineer zombies from 2016 which could work as a walking exploding barrel. (and give out fire extinguishers when killed without blowing up)

An SSG zombie would sound a bit OP and could depend on whether or not the Doom Marauder in Eternal will be an enemy or a single character.

I also noticed this that you made viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15080&hilit=Spriting+Carnival&start=33735#p1117987 which looks cool.

What do you think they should play like? Because in case there isn't any move to pull out from the games right now, we could wait to see what Eternal has to offer.
Knowing how the mod isn't always accurate and gets creative at times, i can see some attacks being taken from certain enemies and applied to others. (we've had a triple orb D64 caco and unwillings with projectiles for example)

Because balancing might also be why Spiborg doesn't have a double plasma rifle and Cybermanc doesn't actually drop acid like he does in D4T.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby Miru » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:13 pm

The SSG Zombies wouldn’t appear until around MAP25 or so, and they have to reload. That’s what balances them out in addition to their fragility. Belphegor is able to attack with a floor-scorching magic attack similar to Arch-Vile, but the flames deal damage instead of there being an explosion afterward. They move a little slower than normal, though. Their melee attack is slower but stronger. Ghouls attack with fireballs instead of missiles, which are dumb-fire but shot two at a time. The Captain is a Zombie with a rocket launcher, which moves slowly. It can also call two normal Zombimen to aid it when hit.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby whatup876 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:20 pm

The cryo bomb means the ice effects from Hexen can have an excuse to show up but at the same time, i can't really see how that item differs from the syphon grenade or lightning gun bomb.

I was looking back at the "MetaDoom inspired mapsets" idea and thought about something more impossible: Oblige addon with prefabs and stuff inspired by different content and rooms from various Doom games.
In fact, i don't recall there being an Oblige addon (or for any other wad generator) that takes stuff like rooms and locations from the IWADs.
Something with prefabs and all.

But regardless, the game is delayed so it's going to take even more time until it's possible to decide on what makes sense.

Christmas edit: something else i realized about MetaDoom inspired levels is the actual mechanics from the new games.
Like jump pads being a possible replacement for jumping or relying on elevators.
Some Eternal footage also showed punchable blocks that are meant to be pushed but with melee.
I think D3 also had some stuff and also how it handled interactive computer screens.
Like gameplay stuff that can be used in different ways.
And considering the stuff the mod (and even these new games) takes from Quake, if the player uses the Lightning Gun in swimmable water... you know the rest.

I also thought of a (probably terrible) solution to the Beholder and it was combining the Eternal PE and D3 Cacodemon for its design.
Like the face of that brain Caco and the new PE's arms. (and as usual, keep it green colored)

Another edit: just thought of some dumber ideas about the Cybermanc:
* When his mortar balls explode they could drop toxic slime in the floor like he does in 2016 to make him a bit more faithfull and give the player some time to run away from the slime.
* Radsuits can protect the player from the Cybermanc's slimes and even Holy Water Pistols can clean it away.

And for the Summoner, i thought of him spawning certain enemy types based on what enemy corpse he's near.
For example, if he doesn't resurrect a dead Mancubus, he can spawn either a Behemoth or Cybermanc or if he encounters one of those two dead, he can summoner the classic Manc or another type etc.
Like, he "switches" between types of an enemy slot when encountering a specific corpse, so he's not going to summon a Cacodemon variant on top of a dead Revenant for example.

And if the Carcass ever gets sprites, one could start with a frankensprite of an Arachnotron/Manc/Chaingunner. (this does sound like one of those "if someone else does it" ideas, i know)
Also, according to the artist of that "classic" Marauder sprite that the official Doom twitter posted once, he seems to have thought of MetaDoom in a hypothetical case of it starring a sprited Marauder. ... 4666405583

Yet another edit: happy new year, i just thought if it would be possible to implement being able to make a Cacodemon swallow a shotgun's grenade and have it lead into him being busy with burping or how Eternal is going to make that work.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby Kinsie » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:48 am

It's been a while.


I'll spare you the details, but last year was a huge goddamn mess and I didn't get much work on MetaDoom done after my previous progress update. Tonight though, fuelled by the mad desire to get some shit done before Doom Eternal dumps a LOT on my plate, I got a ton of work done on the Hell Guard. He's still a little underwhelming to actually FIGHT, but I can work on that.

I'm not sure what monster will be next. I lack a lot of the contacts I once had (I haven't heard back from DrPySpy about that Spiderdemon codex bug since last May!) so I guess it'll be a matter of what I can feasibly smoosh together five angles of myself...
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby Faceman2000 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:17 pm

Super excited to see work resume on this!
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby whatup876 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:28 pm

Looks great, i can see how difficult it can be with adding new content, but i thought there could be ways to refine the existing one too.
Most people think this mod has an ammo usage issue and i thought these could have been solutions:
* Make weapons like the holy water pistol and fire extinguisher spawn next to the shotguns instead of outright replacing their pick ups, due to how weapon pick ups impact ammo. (and most likely how mappers see ammo working on their maps)
* Same could go for the BFG and its variants. (And in case the Soul cube or Unmaker aren't near, BFG could give some plasma ammo despite not using it because, again, this is about how mappers made ammo work)
* From what i assume, Sawcubi have the same health as Spectres but have the advantage of a chainsaw, so maybe give them slightly less HP?
* I don't recall Nightmare Spectres in PS1 Doom being faster than regular ones, so i thought them being slower could make up for the health and create some reverse parallel to the dog enemies (who are faster but have less health)
* Ammo issues also come from alt fires, so i wonder if some quantity could be toned down a bit.
* Not sure if the Backpacks give BFG ammo but that could matter too.
* Outside of ammo, i still think the BFG and chainsaw should have been the first to show up in their slots while the chainsaw's slot actually has progression based randomization.
* Doom 2016 represents power up screen colors as smears on the borders instead of a complete filter in the entire screen, but i guess the blue invulnerability effect can stay since it's a GBA port reference, is better than the vanilla black and white filter and you're still invencible in it.

Not sure what enemies to take from Eternal but i don't recall any enemies being able to summon energy wall shields, throw grenades or even shoot plasma balls that just stop in mid air and then explode after a short delay.
There's probably some enemy attacks/mechanics that weren't touched yet.
I also thought that in 2016, the Cybermanc could shoot "regular" projectiles and used the slime as a side/alt attack.

There's also really tiny inclusions like the screenshot of Eternal's first level in the main menu edited in that scrolling image or a tiny Eternal Doomguy doll.
Or some alternate key pick up designs like the gore key if a skullkey is near flesh textures
I also recall some video stating that Quad damage and Haste have different names and Haste has infinite ammo (probably a bad idea) while picking up Quad shows Doomguy's eyes being purple.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby Kinsie » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:11 pm

Some minor updates from the last couple of days:

First off, Ultra-Nightmare has received its first changes ever since I uploaded the mod to Github... three years ago? Specifically, that placeholder line of text on the Game Over screen about being killed by "something really mean" now specifically mentions how you died, with unique text for every enemy in the game (so far) and a few non-enemy death methods like drowning, getting crushed...

Secondly, those figurines that would rarely appear among treasure items have been promoted to their own category. Called Lore Items, they have a rare chance of appearing in secret areas, and now appear in your Codex after being collected. This will allow me to get in some REALLY deep cuts that don't have to actually effect gameplay.

Wait, hang on... what's that last one?
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Status Report p109)

Postby wildweasel » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:27 pm

Kinsie wrote:Wait, hang on... what's that last one?

god, i love it
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Back At It p111)

Postby Captain J » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:04 am

Would be neat if there are also an empty 25mm Bushmaster Autocannon ammo box and broken quantum generator. :P
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Re: MetaDoom v5.666 "Klave EX" (Back At It p111)

Postby Grizzly » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:29 am

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but the pistol doesn't trigger the switches in Sigil.

Also really cool to see this mod being worked on again :)
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