MetaDoom v5.3 "Klave" (What's Next? p106)

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Re: MetaDoom v5.2 "Klave" (Artipatch! p101)

Postby isaacpop23 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:37 pm

Kinsie wrote:Also, nobody would notice since I don't think anybody even still plays this mod, as noted by people who repeatedly requested bugfixes/changes never even reacting to those changes being added after much fiddling. Hell, a "thank you" would be nice...


Normally don't think to say things much on this forum as I mostly just lurk, but I love seeing this mod still being tended to. It's still among my favorite mods to screw around with. Thanks for keeping it bug free and so well polished! And hard dammit, still can't do Doom II or NRFTL in Ultra-Nightmare.

Can't wait to see what you've got planned for when Eternal comes out. :mrgreen:
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Re: MetaDoom v5.2 "Klave" (Artipatch! p101)

Postby whatup876 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:10 pm

I feel like some people who complain about the mod's problem were either expecting it to be a traditional randomizer, a power fantasy mod or may not have payed enough attention to vanilla Doom to see that some parts of the mod are meant to be "vanilla styled".

And with the weapons sounding weak, that was more to do with maybe the sounds and not the gameplay.

The mod isn't perfect but it's probably one of my faves and from concept to execution, possibly the best tribute to Doom, it deserves to be a bit more popular.

Spoiler:
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Re: MetaDoom v5.2 "Klave" (Artipatch! p101)

Postby Faceman2000 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:20 pm

This mod got me back into DooM when I found it a year and a half ago or whenever that was. I’m super grateful for it and the continual updates and bug fixes. Keep it up dude! You rock!
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Re: MetaDoom v5.2 "Klave" (Artipatch! p101)

Postby snarkel » Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:43 pm

I havent played any other gameplay mod nearly as much as i've played metadoom. People definitely still play this, including me, and im hella excited for whats to come in the future. Keep up the good work Kinsie!
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Re: MetaDoom v5.2 "Klave" (Artipatch! p101)

Postby zitro1987 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:34 pm

This is a very enjoyable and fairly restrained which works on its favor. If I have to share constructive criticism:


Weapons:
(minor)*The chainsaw's primary attack is too inferior to its [balanced] powerful secondary attack. It needs something more - either a ~50% damage increase on primary fire, or have it grant health bonuses like the axe.
(minor)*The machine gun's primary fire deals roughly 60-80dmg per second depending on range (mid-range to point-blank) and is not very accurate. While it's not low enough to be unbalanced, I feel it would benefit from near-perfect accuracy, setting it apart from the beast that is chaingun.
(major)*The chaingun is clearly the best weapon in the game when you have the ammo-type. It utilizes one of the lesser ammo types yet its rate of fire (therefore damage) is more than 3X the regular machine gun and exceeds the plasma weapons. To make matters worse, the alternate fire seems to deal nearly 1000 damage per second. That is absurd.
-I suggest that the chaingun's primary mode rate of fire/damage to be about 125-150% of the plasma gun's primary attack (so about 160-200 dmg per second)
-I suggest that the chaingun's secondary mode rate of fire/damage to be about twice as much as the primary fire (so about 300-400 dmg per second)
(minor) a few of the weapons don't seem to really fit the theme of doom (holy water pistol? fire extinguisher? are those the optional 'new weapons' I can turn off?)

Treasure pickups tend to be overwhelmingly abundant. I believe I get 3 to 5 of them at a time on ultra-violence difficulty and for some maps, I could access 20 or more. It is mostly fine for granades but:
* I think the illusion item is game-breaking yet I like the concept. I believe this is the kind of item that should consume 3-5 points per usage. Otherwise, the length should be 5sec or less and/or the attention drawing less significant and only to happen at times. Throwing a dozen or so illusions per map gets me out of most difficult situations too easily.
* I also thing the wall item is also game-breaking. While we could reduce its length, make it cost 3-5 points, or let some damage pass through, the problem is clearly that you can shoot through the wall. The item would be really fun if the wall applies to everyone including player - the item will still be very helpful in areas where you need cover, especially those chaingunner traps, enough to even having this proposed concept still cost 2 points.
*I have no idea what the leash-looking item does.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.2 "Klave" (Artipatch! p101)

Postby LossForWords » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:02 pm

the leash is for catching the dog-type enemies that replace the demons.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.2 "Klave" (Artipatch! p101)

Postby isaacpop23 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:57 pm

The Chaingun is balanced out by the fact that it's a *huge* ammo hog. While it's true it can output huge amounts of bullets really fast, chances are if you actually need to use the Chaingun for something, you're gonna be out of bullets for a while. And, from my experience at least, maps heavily favor giving shells to bullets, so that drought can last a while.

I kinda like that all the inventory items you mentioned were game breaking were all the ones I tend to ignore. :p Just shows that the mod is accepting to a variety of play styles. Personally I tend to head for more offensive things like the Tesla Rocket. Really the only one I'd think of making consume multiple charges is the Artifact cause timefreeze can be a bit much. But even then I'd keep it at one per charge.

I do agree with the Chainsaw feeling lackluster, but I feel that's more of a personal choice thing than it being horribly underpowered.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.2 "Klave" (Artipatch! p101)

Postby Kinsie » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:05 pm

isaacpop23 wrote:The Chaingun is balanced out by the fact that it's a *huge* ammo hog. While it's true it can output huge amounts of bullets really fast, chances are if you actually need to use the Chaingun for something, you're gonna be out of bullets for a while. And, from my experience at least, maps heavily favor giving shells to bullets, so that drought can last a while.
In addition, IIRC the Cyberdemon and Spiderdemon both have a hefty resistance to it. Or maybe it was just to the turret mode, I don't remember off-hand.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.2 "Klave" (Artipatch! p101)

Postby zitro1987 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:52 am

I do not believe it is more of an ammo hog as the regular machine gun. I tested against a mancubus and the ammo consumption was similar to kill it. I believe the bullets deal the same damage, thus if you are aiming relatively well, you spend the same amount of ammo but 3X as fast. Given this and the argument to scarcity of bullets (in some wads, not others), why use the regular machine gun then?
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Re: MetaDoom v5.2 "Klave" (Artipatch! p101)

Postby isaacpop23 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:10 pm

Because it doesn't have that wind-up time the Chaingun has, which is crippling in common battles since unless you're going up against hordes, you don't want to just keep firing continuously; and that since it's firing at a faster rate, chances are you're gonna be wasting more bullets into the wall after they die unless you're that perfect at knowing when you've done enough to take the demon out. Or, you want to be able to quickly switch to an alt-fire that doesn't lock you in one spot (I love those micro-missles). Plus there's the fact that the Chaingun is significantly worse at long range than the Machinegun due to the lack of tap firing.

The Chaingun is useful for those moments of *I need these demons gone NOW*, but for common usage it's just too slow to work efficiently. While lately I've taken to just using the standard Shotgun for most things, the Machinegun does a nice job at being the common workhorse of the arsenal.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.2 "Klave" (Artipatch! p101)

Postby whatup876 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:44 pm

Since MetaDoom is a progress based randomizer, the mod may not be as fun with mapsets that have death exits.
I once thought about something like this: if a player dies and moves into the next level, some weapon pick ups can contain more than one weapon from the same slot but only if he had those weapons. (example: if you previously had shotgun and HWP you get both but if the only 6th slot weapon you had was a Plasma gun, you get that at first but not Gauss cannon or Lighting gun)
Something to make things easier for the player, since he'd be pistol starting while later enemy variants would already have showed up after his first death exit.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.2 "Klave" (Artipatch! p101)

Postby TheNoob_Gamer » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:11 am

Your mod is really cool, Kinsie.
But I have a question: Would you consider releasing the weapons/monsters packs seperately? I'd love to play MetaDoom with a megawad that used Dehacked enemies.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.2 "Klave" (Artipatch! p101)

Postby Kinsie » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:08 pm

Probably not, to be honest - a lot of the cooler weapon effects are due to the custom monsters having special pain types for them, and I'm not smart enough to universal-ify things.
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Re: MetaDoom v5.2 "Klave" (Artipatch! p101)

Postby BlastJIM » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:19 am

interesting update
It's like combining 2004 and 2016 with 1993.
totally cool this mod
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Re: MetaDoom v5.2 "Klave" (Artipatch! p101)

Postby LOLANONIMUS » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:20 am

Hey hi I wonder if there is combatibility with metedoom or can do combatibility for doom touch not the delta touch but if there is no can not do it?
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