MetaDoom v4.1 "Fred" (Link Restored)

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Re: MetaDoom v4.1 "Fred" (Link Removed)

Postby insightguy » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:28 am

Kyotra wrote:Yet another modding community about to get ruined over asshurt when no one even profits from these things.


I kinda get why the mods are doing this and all. Asset ripping of new games was an issue before but then when ion maden came out, some users began saying "WOHOO NEW RESOURCES!" rather than "WOHOO A GAME MADE BY ONE OF THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS!". That kinda broke the camel's back.

I just hate it that mods like D4T, this one or even Argent is getting messed over because of this. (Do doom 2016 "resources" even count? most of the resources are traced over 3D models and recolored, surely there is some level of fair use when it comes to editing the stuff.)
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Re: MetaDoom v4.1 "Fred" (Link Removed)

Postby Rachael » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:40 am

Kyotra wrote:Yet another modding community about to get ruined over asshurt when no one even profits from these things.

That "no profit" bit doesn't matter. Are you sure it's not just YOU getting asshurt over this whole thing?

We're not trying to be unreasonable here. As insightguy pointed out, those "yay new resources" posts appeared literally the day Ion Maiden was announced, and attracted several "what in the goddamn fuck?" reactions. Especially given that a lot of the development team is "one of our own" so to speak.

I plan to talk w/ Voidpoint and 3D Realms over this issue and see how they feel about it, and to see if we can negotiate what is most appropriate for a balance between community building and developer respect.

That being said, Bathesda is not too strict about resource usage. As long as you're not trying to impersonate their IP's directly, they're not too uptight about how resources are used, particularly D4D, D4T, Argent, etc. And I imagine MetaDoom and JPF are no exception. We're going to try and come up with something that's fair for everyone, and should allow Kinsie's mods here to thrive, and find a solution everyone will be happy with.
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Re: MetaDoom v4.1 "Fred" (Link Removed)

Postby Kyotra » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:51 pm

I was a bit angry and wrote out something in a rush, since I've seen squabbles over "rights" turn mod communities into no-fun zones.

I'm in agreement that there needs to be a certain degree of respect shown here, even if I'm not surprised in the slightest at how people reacted to this (it's human nature). Hell the first thought I had was how cool porting that character into a Samsara-type mod would be so I could run around in megaWADs. It's not out of disrespect, people just love thinking of the possibilities and everything is a Lego piece to them, rules be damned. This is then followed by the second thought that yes, you should give the game a chance to succeed and profit before taking away its spotlight, or you'll never get the chance to get to see this team make more cool shit.

A big thing on this forum is the trust members have built between each other, making sure to ask permission to use and credit resources. I understand this is the biggest issue that would piss people off.

I'm not fond of the draconian DMCA and how it kills transformative works, or how the concept of copyright in general is used to stifle other people's freedom of expression when no one is deliberately trying to damage the reputation of or profit off the work of others. Copyright infringement should be proven in the same manner as slander, but instead it's treated like theft--something completely ridiculous when the thing being "stolen" is an idea. So that's my stance on that, and why I'm not as super pissed about this as others.

I don't want to get further off topic so I'm just going to leave it at this, I'm sure you guys will work something out that respects the Ion Maiden team while not hurting the ZDoom community.
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Re: MetaDoom v4.1 "Fred" (Link Restored)

Postby Kinsie » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:57 pm

Crippling paranoia assuaged, links restored. Sort of. There might be an extra click or two involved, since I'm still fiddling with the shiny new website that isn't just a PHP redirect to this thread, and the download link on that site might change back to Google Drive or whatever, bandwidth pending.
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Re: MetaDoom v4.1 "Fred" (Link Restored)

Postby whatup876 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:30 pm

Which enemies are not meant to infight?
Because i saw two Fiends punching one another, because i thought the Revenants and their variant weren't meant to do this.
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Re: MetaDoom v4.1 "Fred" (p81)

Postby Miru » Sat May 12, 2018 1:58 pm

whatup876 wrote:If DyPySpy is still working on the MetaDoom codex, maybe the entry for the Bull Demon (Doom 3 Pinky) could have a reference to the Pinky guy from the movie.

Baronos wrote:
I'd love to, but I'm not sure what the best way of integrating them into the game would be.

I think the best way to put her in the game would be making an option only for her.As I said she replaces the Mastermind or the Cyberdemon but It's actually pretty rare.
Like this=Spawning Mother Demon: On/Off with a warning below.


Kinsie did something interesting with the Unmaker, demon keys and nightmare Imps for the consolation prize version of Doom 64, where they'd spawn in the exact same spots they'd do in the original game.

Edit: Maybe the Codex could be used to reference Doom related media, like the Berserk entry referencing the comic book or the spheres having entries referecing how the novels mentioned how they were used.

Edit 2: And CyberDemon's entry could have something to do with Wolfenstein RPG.
Seems like a lot could be done with this.



I agree that at the very least other media (the movie, the novels (Doom and Doom 3-based novels alike), the comic book, Maximum Doom, the board games, Wolfenstein RPG, and various early plans like the original design document and the aborted “Call of Dooty” prototype) need references in the codex.

Concerning the Mother Demon issues, maybe a script could be done so that bosses like her, the Maledict, Kronos, etc. spawn in place of the familiar bosses only on specific maps? For example, having the Mother Demon in place of the Spider Mastermind from Thy Flesh Consumed, VIOS replacing the Icon of Sin in TNT, etc.

Of the weapons, my favorite so far is the shotgun due to the explosive blast secondary fire. It comes in handy very often. :wub:

Edit: Speaking of the boss replacement feature, maybe it can even be used for lower bosses, like the Sabaoth. I could see him replacing the Spiderdemon on MAP06 of Doom II.
Edit: I imagine Helltime Hunter replacing the Cyberdemon in Tricks and Traps.
Last edited by Miru on Sat May 26, 2018 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MetaDoom v4.1 "Fred" (p81)

Postby whatup876 » Sun May 13, 2018 6:51 am

I was wondering whether or not variants for bosses (Cybie and Spiderdemon) wouldn't work that much and instead, there could be some MetaDoom dedicated mapset, that just has additional bosses like those.
Then again, as Kinsie once said: "if Term can’t get people to map for a gameplay mod then I sure as hell can’t."
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Re: MetaDoom v4.1 "Fred" (Link Restored)

Postby hybridial » Sun May 13, 2018 10:46 am

I've been playing this for a bit and it's a lot of fun, I think all the weapons are excellent and the enemy variety is great and an improvement on basic Doom gameplay. Brutal Doom seems to get all the cred, but a lot of alternatives I've played on here are better, this being one of them. It's raises the challenge somewhat but reasonably, and is more about variety of experience than over the top gore and such.

Not that there's anything wrong with over the top gore.
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Re: MetaDoom v4.1 "Fred" (p81)

Postby Miru » Sun May 13, 2018 1:52 pm

whatup876 wrote:I was wondering whether or not variants for bosses (Cybie and Spiderdemon) wouldn't work that much and instead, there could be some MetaDoom dedicated mapset, that just has additional bosses like those.
Then again, as Kinsie once said: "if Term can’t get people to map for a gameplay mod then I sure as hell can’t."

Yeah, that’s why I suggested the level enhancement script to place specific bosses in specific places. This would also make each WAD more unique. Or maybe we could just have a simple Boss Rush Map battling against various bosses from throughout the series’ history.
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Re: MetaDoom v4.1 "Fred" (p81)

Postby whatup876 » Sun May 13, 2018 2:36 pm

Miru wrote:
whatup876 wrote:I was wondering whether or not variants for bosses (Cybie and Spiderdemon) wouldn't work that much and instead, there could be some MetaDoom dedicated mapset, that just has additional bosses like those.
Then again, as Kinsie once said: "if Term can’t get people to map for a gameplay mod then I sure as hell can’t."

Yeah, that’s why I suggested the level enhancement script to place specific bosses in specific places. This would also make each WAD more unique. Or maybe we could just have a simple Boss Rush Map battling against various bosses from throughout the series’ history.


I can see what you mean, but one of MetaDoom's goals was to be compatible with a lot of maps to the point it seperates its own breakable props and secret enemies from the main mod and puts them in an optional file.
So right now, the closest thing there is to specific spawns seems to be what happens in the Consolation Prize version of Doom 64 Retribution's maps.
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Re: MetaDoom v4.1 "Fred" (Link Restored)

Postby Miru » Fri May 25, 2018 1:40 am

Will you be adding the Vulgar and Wraith from the R667 Bestiary to the game? And from there the Super Demon looks like a good base for the Harbinger if he gets in.
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Re: MetaDoom v4.1 "Fred" (Link Restored)

Postby whatup876 » Fri May 25, 2018 12:45 pm

Wouldn't the Vulgar be a bit similar to a regular Imp?
Because i thought at least with a Doom 3 Imp (presumably named Impling), we could make up some ability for him.
I mean, he doesn't seem to have sprites besides something from that D3Mod, though.
Wraith could work as a fourth Spectre spawn that would have to show up less often or when there aren't that many monsters in an area, with their teleporting patterns (and effect) could look and work differently from the Imp Lord and Summoner, i guess.
Edit: Also, with the D3 Imp, we'd have a complete Imp family... except for the regular D64 Imp, but nobody cares about that one.
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Re: MetaDoom v4.1 "Fred" (Link Restored)

Postby Miru » Fri May 25, 2018 3:07 pm

whatup876 wrote:Wouldn't the Vulgar be a bit similar to a regular Imp?
Because i thought at least with a Doom 3 Imp (presumably named Impling), we could make up some ability for him.
I mean, he doesn't seem to have sprites besides something from that D3Mod, though.
Wraith could work as a fourth Spectre spawn that would have to show up less often or when there aren't that many monsters in an area, with their teleporting patterns (and effect) could look and work differently from the Imp Lord and Summoner, i guess.
Edit: Also, with the D3 Imp, we'd have a complete Imp family... except for the regular D64 Imp, but nobody cares about that one.

We could do the same with the Vulgar. I suggest, to fit its name, a poison attack that damages over time. Or maybe it would attack with rapid-fire projectiles. And I agree about the suggestion for Wraith.

EDIT: Vulgar could also destroy ammo with its acid attack. And I guess the Impling would have an arcing fireball attack.
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Re: MetaDoom v4.1 "Fred" (Link Restored)

Postby whatup876 » Fri May 25, 2018 3:41 pm

I thought Impling could have had something inspired by Colorful Hell's orange Imp where he could drop flames that could stick to the world and cause damage, but could be easily put out with the HWP or fire extinguisher.

I also thought of him continuously burning the player, much like that poison attack, as a way to mirror the player's axe and something TF2 inspired, where it could be also put out by standing in liquids or picking up any health pick up.

And whether or not this would make him stronger, i thought of him doing this by being seen charging a fireball, before throwing it.

I also thought that, if someone were to make sprites for him, they could edit an Imp to remove his spikes, make his skin grey and give him six tiny red eyes.
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Re: MetaDoom v4.1 "Fred" (Link Restored)

Postby Miru » Sat May 26, 2018 12:14 pm

I approve of the Impling leaving behind flame trails and having a charge fireball. Not so sure about the setting players aflame bit, because it would overlap with Vulgar’s poison. Unless Vulgar was given some other ability (like maybe being able to suddenly turn tail and run from a fight? Operating locked doors without a key? Based both of them of its monkey-like appearance.)... Maybe give Impling a flaming tackle attack? And what about Harbinger? IMO it could be a Baron replacement monster.
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