MetaDoom v666 "Titan" (UPDATED!! p115)

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Re: [WIP] MetaDoom - Thank You For The Demon (Coming Soon!)

Postby rabid marine » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:33 am

Kinsie wrote:
rabid marine wrote:YET ANOTHER QUESTION: Will the virtual icon of sin return as a boss that takes you to a special map? will he/she/it return at all?
Probably not. It'd be nice to have the BossBrain fire one out as a "miniboss" that renders the BossBrain vulnerable upon death, but there's so many different variations of that one fight for so many different purposes that I don't want to inadvertantly break a death-exit or whatever.

why not have the bossbrain fire out a random miniboss?
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Re: [WIP] MetaDoom - Thank You For The Demon (Coming Soon!)

Postby Captain J » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:07 am

*Doomguy's vigorous chain-nudge penetrates the life out of everything he sees*

But secondary attack looks fine, though!
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Re: [WIP] MetaDoom - Thank You For The Demon (Coming Soon!)

Postby faslrn » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:37 am

Captain J wrote:
*Doomguy's vigorous chain-nudge penetrates the life out of everything he sees*

But secondary attack looks fine, though!


I feel like there should be more of a windup to really feel he is thrusting that chainsaw into their spleens.
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Re: [WIP] MetaDoom - Thank You For The Demon (Coming Soon!)

Postby Cryomundus » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:07 pm

rabid marine wrote:
Kinsie wrote:
rabid marine wrote:YET ANOTHER QUESTION: Will the virtual icon of sin return as a boss that takes you to a special map? will he/she/it return at all?
Probably not. It'd be nice to have the BossBrain fire one out as a "miniboss" that renders the BossBrain vulnerable upon death, but there's so many different variations of that one fight for so many different purposes that I don't want to inadvertantly break a death-exit or whatever.

why not have the bossbrain fire out a random miniboss?

Can't you just use ACS to check the map#, and if its anything other than map30, give the bossbrain a token to skip the spawning and just die instead?

I mean, I know you can use ACS to check the level number so maybe you can use that?
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Re: [WIP] MetaDoom - Thank You For The Demon (Chainsaw Video

Postby ijon » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:47 pm

well, it's bosseye that does the spawning, not bossbrain

so you could use that, except naturally there's maps which litter bosseyes around to act as a way to constantly keep the player fighting for the entire map, with no breaks at all, and may not even have a bossbrain!

I guess you could just have the brains A_ChangeFlag("INVULNERABLE", true) if there's any bosseye-specific minibosses around on the map, so it's really not that bad, although then you have the brains vulnerable until minibosses get spat out

so I guess make the brains invulnerable unless:
1. there's no bosseyes on the map
2. at least 1 miniboss per 2 bosseyes (or whatever ratio you want) have been spawned and killed, rounding up, so that minibosses that get lost in the noise won't stall the game forever

but then what if some bosseyes never get alerted? what do you do then? do we only count active bosseyes in the dead miniboss:bosseye ratio? do we just assume that you'll wake up at least 50% of them? do we have them start already alert, without the need to see or hear you?

welcome to the problem of needing to support literally thousands of maps; pretty much any assumption you make will have an example wad breaking it, and it will likely have been made at least five years ago.

(and yes I am always incredibly picky about map compatibility)
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Re: [WIP] MetaDoom - Thank You For The Demon (Chainsaw Video

Postby ArchXeno » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:58 pm

How will ultra nightmare work with mapsets that have death exits?
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Re: [WIP] MetaDoom - Thank You For The Demon (Chainsaw Video

Postby Kinsie » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:00 pm

ijon wrote:well, it's bosseye that does the spawning, not bossbrain

so you could use that, except naturally there's maps which litter bosseyes around to act as a way to constantly keep the player fighting for the entire map, with no breaks at all, and may not even have a bossbrain!

I guess you could just have the brains A_ChangeFlag("INVULNERABLE", true) if there's any bosseye-specific minibosses around on the map, so it's really not that bad, although then you have the brains vulnerable until minibosses get spat out

so I guess make the brains invulnerable unless:
1. there's no bosseyes on the map
2. at least 1 miniboss per 2 bosseyes (or whatever ratio you want) have been spawned and killed, rounding up, so that minibosses that get lost in the noise won't stall the game forever

but then what if some bosseyes never get alerted? what do you do then? do we only count active bosseyes in the dead miniboss:bosseye ratio? do we just assume that you'll wake up at least 50% of them? do we have them start already alert, without the need to see or hear you?

welcome to the problem of needing to support literally thousands of maps; pretty much any assumption you make will have an example wad breaking it, and it will likely have been made at least five years ago.

(and yes I am always incredibly picky about map compatibility)
Yeah, I'm trying to keep compatibility, but even on MAP30s there's a lot of different variations on endboss construction, like multiple BossEyes etc... it's a tough issue to design around.

ArchXeno wrote:How will ultra nightmare work with mapsets that have death exits?
E1M8's ending works fine from what I've tried. Anything else? Currently untested but I assume it won't work unless it somehow beats a DEATH script to execution.

In other news, all the "base" weapons are implemented and in the engine now! Some still need extra bits of polish here and there, but they're in!

BFG 9000 Image
The. Ultimate. Gun. The prize of the military's arsenal, the BFG 9000 combines everything the UAC knows about weaponized plasma, weaponized Argent Energy, and weaponized pretty-much-everything into one 300-pound package. While it's the most powerful and most effective weapon mankind has ever laid its eyes upon, its sheer size renders it unportable and impossible for one man to wield (well, unless that one man was really, REALLY angry, but what are the odds?), rendering it more of a series of targets for weapons designers to try and reach for.

Information about the BFG is highly classified. All that we know right now is that it has two firing methods like many other weapons...
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Re: [WIP] MetaDoom - Thank You For The Demon (Chainsaw Video

Postby Cryomundus » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:10 pm

ijon wrote:well, it's bosseye that does the spawning, not bossbrain

so you could use that, except naturally there's maps which litter bosseyes around to act as a way to constantly keep the player fighting for the entire map, with no breaks at all, and may not even have a bossbrain!

I guess you could just have the brains A_ChangeFlag("INVULNERABLE", true) if there's any bosseye-specific minibosses around on the map, so it's really not that bad, although then you have the brains vulnerable until minibosses get spat out

so I guess make the brains invulnerable unless:
1. there's no bosseyes on the map
2. at least 1 miniboss per 2 bosseyes (or whatever ratio you want) have been spawned and killed, rounding up, so that minibosses that get lost in the noise won't stall the game forever

but then what if some bosseyes never get alerted? what do you do then? do we only count active bosseyes in the dead miniboss:bosseye ratio? do we just assume that you'll wake up at least 50% of them? do we have them start already alert, without the need to see or hear you?

welcome to the problem of needing to support literally thousands of maps; pretty much any assumption you make will have an example wad breaking it, and it will likely have been made at least five years ago.

(and yes I am always incredibly picky about map compatibility)


Nonono, what I meant was, if Kinsie decides to have a replacement for the bossbrain, and has it spawn a unique monster on death, to use ACS to deteremine what map the player is on, and if it isn't map30, give it a token so it will skip the part the spawns the monster, and just die. You don't need a Bosseye to do that, you know, you can have any monster spawn anything upon death, see A_SpawnItem or A_DropItem

Seriously, go take a look at http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=52102, it does essentially the same thing I'm talking about, though I don't know about the ACS skip thing to keep it from spawning the actual final boss when the bossbrain is in any map other than map30.

Edit: you'll need to tweak some options in Bratwurst for the thing to happen.

Spoiler:
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Re: [WIP] MetaDoom - Thank You For The Demon (Chainsaw Video

Postby ijon » Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:02 am

... when the bossbrain dies, the map ends

so either you're suggesting having a miniboss appear for like a second before the map ends, or you're suggesting breaking death-exits on map30

and anyway the only thing technically limiting bossbrain fights to map30 is that monsters can telefrag only on map30. if you don't care about that, nothing stops you from putting them on other maps.
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Re: [WIP] MetaDoom - Thank You For The Demon (Chainsaw Video

Postby Kinsie » Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:24 am

Pretty sure any changes I ultimately make to the Icon, if any, will be commented out by default to avoid issues. That's the route I'm gonna take with the WolfSS, anyway.
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Re: [WIP] MetaDoom - Thank You For The Demon (Chainsaw Video

Postby Arctangent » Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:52 am

Kinsie wrote:E1M8's ending works fine from what I've tried. Anything else? Currently untested but I assume it won't work unless it somehow beats a DEATH script to execution.

Scythe MAP10, among many others.

Which ... really I can't imagine it beating a DEATH script, considering it has to wait for a boss brain to fully die.
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Re: [WIP] MetaDoom - Thank You For The Demon (Chainsaw Video

Postby SiFi270 » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:09 am

Kinsie wrote:That's the route I'm gonna take with the WolfSS, anyway.

I was actually wondering about those. Is there a chance of them being occasionally replaced with nazis from the Muse Software games, or anything from RtCW onwards? I mean I know this is MetaDoom and not MetaWolf, but I still think it'd be neat to see what happens when something from outside the franchise gets the same "combining versions of it from across the franchise" treatment.
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Re: [WIP] MetaDoom - Thank You For The Demon (Coming Soon!)

Postby Pompous Seed » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:40 am

Hey, this looks pretty neato. Just out of curiosity though, will this thing eventually tell you how and/or what you were killed by?
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Re: [WIP] MetaDoom - Thank You For The Demon (Coming Soon!)

Postby Kinsie » Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:48 am

Pompous Seed wrote:Hey, this looks pretty neato. Just out of curiosity though, will this thing eventually tell you how and/or what you were killed by?
I hope so, but it'll require a bit of work. I've been told that there isn't really a "proper" way to determine what killed the player via ACS, so I guess it's gonna be some gross hacks later on.
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Re: [WIP] MetaDoom - Thank You For The Demon (Chainsaw Video

Postby Captain J » Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:14 am

Also don't forget the enviroment and suicide obituary too!
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