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Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:19 pm
by whatup876
oh wait, i realized blursphere is the invisibility thing and not a misspelling of "bluesphere"

Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:29 pm
by Princess Viscra Maelstrom
oh right, i forgot that. well uhh, maybe a rare chance to replace Berserk, but it also fills your HP up to 100 so as to not break compatibility, and have the option to turn it on and off?

Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:59 pm
by whatup876
Viscra Maelstrom wrote:oh right, i forgot that. well uhh, maybe a rare chance to replace Berserk, but it also fills your HP up to 100 so as to not break compatibility, and have the option to turn it on and off?


When it came to giving extra health, i thought 50 points were enough

Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:33 pm
by Sleepyhead
Been playing this recently and I have to say, this has quickly become my favorite gameplay mod. Pretty much everything has a fantastic level of polish and it's one of the few gameplay mods I've played that still feels a lot like Doom while still adding a lot of new and enjoyable gameplay elements. Thanks so much for your hard work in putting this together! The only thing I think it could use so far is just some more enemy variants for the higher tier monsters (Arachnotrons, Mancubus, Arch-Vile, etc) but I'm sure that's on your to-do list somewhere along the line.

As far as suggestions go, have you considered doing some cannon fodder zombies like Doom 3's shambling zombies or Doom 4's Possessed Scientists? Maybe they could spawn with armor/health bonuses like the treasures do? Might be pretty fun to cleave them apart with the fire axe. Also; Doom alpha's flying imps. Those would be cool, although we do already have 3 imp variants...

Anyway, best of luck with future updates! I'm very excited to see what you come up with next.

Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:57 am
by whatup876
Sleepyhead wrote:Been playing this recently and I have to say, this has quickly become my favorite gameplay mod. Pretty much everything has a fantastic level of polish and it's one of the few gameplay mods I've played that still feels a lot like Doom while still adding a lot of new and enjoyable gameplay elements. Thanks so much for your hard work in putting this together! The only thing I think it could use so far is just some more enemy variants for the higher tier monsters (Arachnotrons, Mancubus, Arch-Vile, etc) but I'm sure that's on your to-do list somewhere along the line.

As far as suggestions go, have you considered doing some cannon fodder zombies like Doom 3's shambling zombies or Doom 4's Possessed Scientists? Maybe they could spawn with armor/health bonuses like the treasures do? Might be pretty fun to cleave them apart with the fire axe. Also; Doom alpha's flying imps. Those would be cool, although we do already have 3 imp variants...

Anyway, best of luck with future updates! I'm very excited to see what you come up with next.


I had some ideas about enemies:
Archies would have been the summoners from D4 but they need sprites that aren't red archies with horns
Arachnos could be those spiders from D3 (they could behave a bit like the dog enemies) and/or D64 ones with abilities based on D4 mastermind
Mancubi could be either 64 or D3 with abilities from D4 mancubus (including the cyber one) like flamethrowers, drops of acid or smacking the ground to create a shock wave attack (this happened in the game, right?)

Also thought that the double jump ability would have to be earned through a pick up where you must find the boots but they obviously appear sooner and are easy to find

Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:11 pm
by Kinsie
Sleepyhead wrote:As far as suggestions go, have you considered doing some cannon fodder zombies like Doom 3's shambling zombies or Doom 4's Possessed Scientists? Maybe they could spawn with armor/health bonuses like the treasures do? Might be pretty fun to cleave them apart with the fire axe.
It'd be a nice idea, but I'm cautious of doing this at a gameplay mod level because I have no control over the amount of ammo the player has been given by the level designer - throwing additional things for the player to shoot could result in ammo being tighter than intended at later encounters...

whatup876 wrote:I had some ideas about enemies:
Archies would have been the summoners from D4 but they need sprites that aren't red archies with horns
Arachnos could be those spiders from D3 (they could behave a bit like the dog enemies) and/or D64 ones with abilities based on D4 mastermind
Mancubi could be either 64 or D3 with abilities from D4 mancubus (including the cyber one) like flamethrowers, drops of acid or smacking the ground to create a shock wave attack (this happened in the game, right?)
Summoners are gonna happen, I just haven't put in the time or effort to do an appropriate sprite set yet. I have a very specific idea of how I want them to look and act...

Trites (D3 spiders) will probably happen, I have some ideas and code I can use for them, but I'm not sure how to place them in levels and I don't think Arachnotrons are the right place, as they are both of very different power levels. Granted, I could have one Arachnotron spawn generate X number of Trites, but this would very likely break MAP07... D64 Arachnotrons will happen, I just need to give them something interesting to do (and a new name since I don't remember any Arachnotron variants in the RPGs...)

D64 Mancubus and D4 Cyber-Manc will happen, I just haven't gotten to them yet. They will probably be seperate monsters, to add further variety.

whatup876 wrote:Also thought that the double jump ability would have to be earned through a pick up where you must find the boots but they obviously appear sooner and are easy to find
I'm loathe to add double jump because it'd be pretty useless on mapsets that disable jumping... I wonder if I can detect if MAPINFO has set that flag...?

Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:23 pm
by zrrion the insect
I think you can detect the result of a button press, such that it only registers the button press if the engine actually does anything with that button.

Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:55 pm
by Kinsie
I was thinking more, stopping jump boots from spawning at all if jumping is disabled.

Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:11 pm
by zrrion the insect
You can check sv_jump, but if it is set to "Default" I don't think you can do much about it.

Re: MetaDoom v3.0 "Samuel" (p65)

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:20 pm
by Kinsie
v3.1 "Samuel" (~23mb)

v3.1 "Samuel" (02/03/17)
========================
Various tweaks and improvements based on player feedback. Thanks to everyone for their feedback! I greatly appreciate it!

- Explosive Barrels now use the old explosion animation speed when killed by another explosive barrel. This should make, say, DOOM2 MAP23 more forgiving.
- The "6" key now defaults to the Plasma Rifle at first if you have it.
- Added Zrrion's modified radsuit sprite!

Monster Tweaks:
- Hellhounds: Will now get instagibbed by the Axe, like Zombies.

Weapon Tweaks:
- Super Shotgun: Added FOV punch and tweaked animation on firing.
- Chaingun: Ammo consumption reduced in both firing modes.
- Lightning Gun: Primary fire damage and range increased.
- Lightning Gun: Altfire no longer causes bleeding.
- Plasma Rifle: Altfire projectile speed and damage increased
- Plasma Rifle: Altfire projectile causes splash damage on impact.

Re: MetaDoom v3.1 "Samuel" (p68)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:40 am
by SiFi270
For Arachnotron variants, you could maybe have one called the "Arachnotron prototype" based on that one prerelease screenshot of one with a chaingun, which would have the same slow rate of fire as the Mastermind's chaingun but less damage like a zombie's chaingun. And then the Doom 64 version could be called "Arachnotron Mark II".

Finally, this wiki page seems to think a certain piece of Doom 3 concept art was for an Arachnotron, while the filename for it is "spiderdemon_concept", but without any size cues neither one seems more likely than the other to me. I think Hunter's Moon used its design for the latter, though.

Re: MetaDoom v3.1 "Samuel" (p68)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:00 am
by Sleepyhead
Kinsie wrote:It'd be a nice idea, but I'm cautious of doing this at a gameplay mod level because I have no control over the amount of ammo the player has been given by the level designer - throwing additional things for the player to shoot could result in ammo being tighter than intended at later encounters...


Yeah, you've got a good point there. My thought was that there are plenty of good ammo-free options for dealing with minor league baddies (especially slow, melee restricted ones) it wouldn't be that big of a deal; heck, you could even get a bit of a benefit out of it in terms of using the quick melee or the fire axe for extra HP or as minor meat shields if they spawn amongst other monsters. But I can see how it might be more annoying than anything to specifically have to switch to a more ammo conservative weapon like the pistol just to deal with a puny zombie or two, especially if nastier threats are bearing down on you. Oh well.

Kinsie wrote:Trites (D3 spiders) will probably happen, I have some ideas and code I can use for them, but I'm not sure how to place them in levels and I don't think Arachnotrons are the right place, as they are both of very different power levels. Granted, I could have one Arachnotron spawn generate X number of Trites, but this would very likely break MAP07... D64 Arachnotrons will happen, I just need to give them something interesting to do (and a new name since I don't remember any Arachnotron variants in the RPGs...)


If you don't mind, I had an idea about the Trites. If I recall correctly, didn't the Vagary boss from Doom 3 spawn Trites or Ticks or something? There was one encounter where she had little spiders with her. Either way, you could probably implement a modified Vagary as an elite Arachnotron spawn (therefore, it wouldn't spawn as early as MAP07) and have one of its attacks involving summoning a few Trites. Maybe it could be preventable, kinda like how the Pain Elementals can be kept from spawning Lost Souls with focused fire? Problem is, I don't know what sprites would work for it, I don't think I've ever seen good Vagary sprites before...

Re: MetaDoom v3.1 "Samuel" (p68)

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:18 am
by whatup876
By the way, ROE had an enemy called the Bruiser that was some sort of mix between an hellknight and a mancubus, not sure how that would work out in MetaDoom though

http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Bruiser

Re: MetaDoom v3.1 "Samuel" (p68)

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:33 am
by Kinsie
It's something I'd like to add because, come on, Tellytubby Demon. Sprites are a problem, as always...

Re: MetaDoom v3.1 "Samuel" (p68)

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:43 am
by whatup876
Kinsie wrote:It's something I'd like to add because, come on, Tellytubby Demon. Sprites are a problem, as always...


I thought his moves could be another problem because he could play too much the same as the mancubus unless he another other moves or something else.