D4D - Announcement in 1st post (Jan 4th 2017)

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Re: D4D - v2.0.3(11/03/16)

Postby Caligari87 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:10 pm

It's because D4D includes some of its own edited monster sprites instead of using just the stock sprites. This isn't a FreeDoom issue; D4D would need to include FreeDoom sprites (maybe as a patch?) in order to look right.

8-)
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Re: D4D - v2.0.3(11/03/16)

Postby Beed28 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:11 pm

There's a similar issue with the palette on a few of the D4D monsters in the BTSX map set as well.

Why, oh why, do people insist on using Doom paletted sprites in ZDoom mods when they can just use .PNG sprites?
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Re: D4D - v2.0.3(11/03/16)

Postby NullWire » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:31 pm

No more updates of weapons and monsters?
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Re: D4D - v2.0.3(11/03/16)

Postby wpninja » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:37 pm

Was thinking of trying this mod out. Can anybody recommend what D4D related mod combinations I should try out? There seems to be quite a few things you can use with this mod now.
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Re: D4D - v2.0.3(11/03/16)

Postby Major Cooke » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:39 pm

I personally haven't tried any of the addons, simply because my personal edition is one step ahead of theirs.

@NullWire: Nah, we're not done with this mod yet. I've just been the only one working on this for the time being while the other two are hauling away on the D4T version.

Rowsol wrote:I'm trying to add upgrades. I've got it working except for one issue. I can start the game up, buy the upgrade, and it works. However, if I start a new game or jump to the next level with "nextmap" I can't buy the upgrade again, it says it's already bought even though I don't have it. Any help would be appreciated.


Best wait on adding new things to D4D for the time being. I'm working to develop some form of 'API' using zscript, but I've no idea how it's going to handle yet and what all I'm even going to cover.

Beed28 wrote:Two things; first, with sv_unlimited_pickup turned on, you can "overcharge" the Pistol, allowing you to fire a number of charged shots in quick succession depending on how long you held the charge for. This was surprising considering how many surprising considerations were made for sv_unlimited_pickup throughout the mod (the ammo and carrion piñata tokens flying towards you even if you're carrying over the normal capacity, and the fact that you can't overcharge the Static Rifle!).

And the second, is an exploit involving ledge climbing. If you face a cliff at a particular angle (not straight forward) and then try jumping forward into it at that angle, you can effectively scale the whole cliff regardless of its height.

Whilst fun to do, I'm surprised no one's brought the latter up yet.


First one: SHUSH. It's fun to do. (Okay... The real reason I haven't fixed it yet (and I play with unlimited pickup all the damn time) is because I keep forgetting about it.)
Second one: I'll go punch Michaelis in the funny bone and see what he says. :P
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Re: D4D - v2.0.3(11/03/16)

Postby Major Cooke » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:43 pm

TechnoDoomed1 wrote:Seems it isn't that important a bug after all, since it hasn't be fixed.

You can always disable mantling if it breaks immersion too much, or embrace it and use its ridiculousness to your advantage. :P

You might want to consider the fact that none of us ever encountered such an issue. Now, I don't take responsibility for the ledge grabbing because I never play with it on. I just don't like it, personally.

I make up for it by turning on D4D_JumpExploit on instead-- D'OH SNAP a secret cvar~!

Meh it's been long enough. Simply put, it allows unrestrained jump stacking so you can make like a catapult and free fart your way up really high. Triple tap that space bar and you'll feel like a rocket propelled into space! I mean STUPIDLY high. All you need next to truly achieve astronaut status is the siege mode shot at your feet and... well...

Spoiler: Use your imagination.
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Re: D4D - v2.0.3(11/03/16)

Postby Captain J » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:34 pm

Now that art makes you freely and proud than nyan cat in space!
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Re: D4D - v2.0.3(11/03/16)

Postby Rowsol » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:31 pm

Ok, some more feedback. I haven't been taking notes so this is all from memory. Hopefully it's nothing I've mentioned in the 4 or so previous posts.

-Chaingunners need a maxtargetrange to avoid mass lag when shooting from far. On the contrary, Archvile's should be removed since his attack is no longer hitscan.
-2k default max range for items showing up is low. It's not uncommon to see armors appear in front of you.
-I recently played a map that had something like 200 items in view and voxels dropped my fps in half at least. Just saying, didn't realize how performance effecting it is. If I turn of voxels it gets turned on the next time I start the game.
-As for the archvile, his summoning could be improved. How about changing the cast time depending on the enemy spawned, and as such you could add bigger guys like fatsos to the list.
-The charge up for the powerful attacks of the Baron, Rev, and any others that have long charge up attacks are usually much easier to deal with than the normal attack due to pain chance and all.
-Chaingunner is overnerfed from vanilla, where he was feared. I feel that the charge up time is fine but the damage afterwards is spread out over too much time.
-Since the mastermind gives the same money as the cyberdemon and in my opinion is much easier, how about buffing his stats to match the cyber. 20 pain chance and 4000 health would go a long way.
-The basic demon shield is a good idea but feels too good in comparison to the spectre. Maybe reduce damage by 25% instead of 50?
-The beam attacks of the bosses are too easy to dodge. I found out first hand how much damage they do, it's ridiculous, but it's so rare to get hit by it. Also, 4x cash compared to a baron seems low considering they are much harder than that.
-Fatso stomp is extremely underpowered. It misses over half the time since you'll just run out of range and the damage is pathetic. Also, since the flame version has a flamethrower why would it bother using stomp?
-Perhaps consider removing jumping from the baron's arsenal. I was playing stardate earlier and in a tight space with nowhere to move you get a rocket launcher and barons spawn on the other side. I had no chance once they jumped. It's the first time I've seen this mod negatively affect a map encounter so badly.
-I don't like that painelemental souls don't give proper cash. It's the same monster, why 1 credit?
-Revenants move too damn fast.
-Lost souls shouldn't bleed.
-The zombie big plasmaball is very underpowered.
-When you get a weapon upgrade that improves the damage it should get a different projectile graphic like the pistol. The vortex rifle comes to mind.
-all BFG upgrades are overpriced. Also, change the extra ammo into extra chance to spawn BFG cells instead and just give the 4th ammo with backpack.
-Carrion ammo and pickup upgrades are too cheap. With these 2 you almost never run out and the weapon rapes.
-I really hate having to hold altfire for many weapon mods. Some aren't so bad but others like gatling rotator are just unusable. No way am I going to hold the right mouse button down for the entire time I have it out.
-Grenade cooldown is too low. Syphon is too good. I like the idea but having free health on every pack is very abusable. The entire idea of limited health in a map is thrown out the window. I don't like the limit of 10 health per tic for the syphon grenades though. It's not like the other grenades have caps on how good they can be,
-I really don't like weapons that make you choose a fire mode once you upgrade it. For instance, the pistol upgrades only upgrade one half of the weapon. Why not make them affect both modes so you aren't pigeonholed into using just one mode.
-I know I've said this before but it bears repeating. The repeater is too damn good. I've removed it from the game for my personal playing. I could nerf it but what good would that do, it would just be a HAR then, as it's essentially a strict upgrade and even outclasses the chaingun. I see no point in having both this and the HAR in the game at the same time.
-The first 2 upgrades for the SS are too cheap, especially the shell feeder. Bang for buck is far higher for that than anything else I can think of. It's like an 80% fire rate increase for 2000? Also, forcing manual clicking for it is the gay.
-Vortex rifle not piercing in scope is a major flavor fail. It's the same beam. Also for the static rifle, it's a beam, just make it always pierce and change that upgrade to something else.
-BFG ammo spawn chance is low, you'd need to pick up like 20 cellpacks to get 4 ammo.
-22,500 for the 30% credit bonus is really high. You'd need to get 75,000 credits afterwards just to break even.
-I've mentioned before that the first crate upgrade is too cheap but the others are too expensive. I'm pretty sure 20 upgrades crates is better than the 2nd upgrade (I've mentioned before that I thought crates were too cheap to buy).
-Air control upgrades are a joke, way too much money. Even if they were 1k each I don't think I'd get them.
-The initial health and armor upgrades are priced fairly and then the next 2 aren't Again, back to the crates. I'd rather get 10 crates than an extra 25 health for 10k. Also, while the first health upgrade is a solid buy, the armor upgrades are mostly useless unless you're using syphon grenade.
-Why do casings disappear so quickly?
-A couple suggestions for buying upgrades. When you buy an upgrade for a gun can it go back to the same menu instead of the root gun menu? Also, if you could put the suit upgrades on the right side of the screen instead of having 2 separate menus that would be better. If not, when exiting from one menu can you have it not skip the first menu where you pick which section you want? Meaning, exiting out of the weapon menu only to have to reopen the upgrade menu because I can't pick "suit" without reopening it. (whew, that's a long one)

Now, for a few suggestions for new weapon upgrades, all of which I've personally made and find quite fun.

-Merging of primary and alt fire boosts as mentioned before. Things like the carrion upgrades, BFG, pistol, ect.
-Shotgun cooling upgrade.
-HAR faster shooting.
-Chaingun spin up time and bullet spread.
-Rocket launcher + rocket speed and/or fire rate.
-BFG half charge time before shot and one for increasing the spawn chance of BFG cells (as mentioned above)
-Gauss and Vortex fire rate increase.
-Lightning gun has the altfire always but the ammo cost is doubled. The range of it is half of the regular attack. The range upgrade not only affects the bolt but also the spread to enemies.

I guess that's it for now.
Last edited by Rowsol on Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: D4D - v2.0.3(11/03/16)

Postby shotfan » Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:34 am

As I can say after recently finishing a Doom 2 Reloaded playthrough on Nightmare:
I never found Pinky's bone armour problematic. Especially when I obtain a RL... :twisted:
SSG's upgrades are too cheap for me as well. Their price could be doubled at least.
Syphon Grenade is the most broken thing now, indeed. At very least is should not recover armour (or it should have that ability delegated into an upgrade), but its stunlock capability is very significant as well.
I would also add that the three-use Doomguy doll is a bit too powerful. A single-use doll would be enough.
Repeater is very good, I agree. I found that a similar situation occurs between Lightning Gun and Plasma Rifle, but at least the former has useful mods. HAR's mods (especially the scope) are hardly worth the hassle once you get Repeater. Then again, neither the Repeater nor Lightning Gun originate from the Doom's 4 basic arsenal, and it really shows that they were never intended to be used alongside HAR/PR. That said, I am glad that they finally found their way into D4D.
Chaingun is maybe a bit too slow, but I think the bigger problem that it has is that Gatling Rotator is not that amazing anymore once you purchase the Mobile Turret. But well, that is how it was in the original game, and it is undeniably hard to "fix"... Same story with Gauss Cannon's mods: it is not that Precision Shot is bad (it is very good), only that just Siege Mode became a meme in overpoweredness category even in original Doom 4. But then again, blame id.
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Re: D4D - v2.0.3(11/03/16)

Postby Valherran » Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:58 pm

I've given this a lot of thought, and I think this MOD would work really damn good on Heretic.
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Re: D4D - v2.0.3(11/03/16)

Postby Stuka » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:13 am

Fighting against the hell knight was never so entertaining!
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Re: D4D - v2.0.3(11/03/16)

Postby SyntherAugustus » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:23 am

-The repeater is a lot of fun to use, but I agree it needs a slight nerf. I think what might help is longer "reload" time and perhaps a small damage nerf as well. Two quick salvos of a vanilla repeater shouldn't destroy cacodemons and hell knights.

-I think a slight cash buff might be needed as well. Upgrading is a bit too slow for my taste. It might help if the 20% and 30% cash boosts were much cheaper.

-Another thing I've noticed is that time to kill for monsters is much faster than vanilla doom. In Doom 4, I was getting used to time to kill being much longer, and D4D doesn't demonstrate this much at all.

-Siphon grenade is also much better than its Doom 4 counterpart.
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Re: D4D - v2.0.3(11/03/16)

Postby Valherran » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:29 pm

-Another thing I've noticed is that time to kill for monsters is much faster than vanilla doom. In Doom 4, I was getting used to time to kill being much longer, and D4D doesn't demonstrate this much at all.


That's because in Doom 4 you always get locked into some sort of an arena type layout with a bunch powerups and equipment laying around with monsters teleporting in. This was one of the major design flaws with that game. Plus monsters in Doom 4 were also a lot larger and had more HP compared to Doom 2 because you don't fight anywhere near as many in Doom 4.
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Re: D4D - v2.0.3(11/03/16)

Postby tsukiyomaru0 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:40 pm

blackfish wrote:-The repeater is a lot of fun to use, but I agree it needs a slight nerf. I think what might help is longer "reload" time and perhaps a small damage nerf as well. Two quick salvos of a vanilla repeater shouldn't destroy cacodemons and hell knights.

-I think a slight cash buff might be needed as well. Upgrading is a bit too slow for my taste. It might help if the 20% and 30% cash boosts were much cheaper.

-Another thing I've noticed is that time to kill for monsters is much faster than vanilla doom. In Doom 4, I was getting used to time to kill being much longer, and D4D doesn't demonstrate this much at all.

-Siphon grenade is also much better than its Doom 4 counterpart.


- The Repeater may be "powerful", but on Ultra Violence it's only good to pick out enemies one by one. If you get mobbed with it, you're done.

- I think for this it would be better to have a "Cash Multiplier" in the D4D Menu, and maybe an option for "Cash Bonus on Sequential Kills" (where if you kill X enemies in a row without the "Kill Combo" timing out, the bonus increases)

- What's this?

- Yes, it is... Saved me many times in situations I was cornered with low health.
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Re: D4D - v2.0.3(11/03/16)

Postby Rowsol » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:31 pm

Strange bug to report. If you had the chainsaw idling and use "changemap" in the console you'll keep hearing the idling sound at random times no matter if you have it out or not.
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