Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Postby Silentdarkness12 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:14 pm

That's not limited, just simplistic, really. There's no accuracy dropoff on his weapons iirc.

Now, don't get me wrong, there's plenty of reasons to not like Wolf3D. For me, it's the map design that infuriates me so.

Also, it's worth noting that the flamethrower and rocketlauncher are from the Mac version of Wolf3d, if I understand correctly. Only the Spear of Destiny is fully custom.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:19 pm

Silentdarkness12 wrote:That's not limited, just simplistic, really. There's no accuracy dropoff on his weapons iirc.


It is limited in the sense that there is just no reason to use the Pistol or the Machine Gun once you get the Chaingun.

Silentdarkness12 wrote:Also, it's worth noting that the flamethrower and rocket launcher are from the Mac version of Wolf3d, if I understand correctly. Only the Spear of Destiny is fully custom.


Yes, I am aware of this. It is a shame because on paper, Wolfenstein 3d really sounds fun, but the game just has not aged well - unlike Doom.

I get why BJ would be included in Samsara roster and I do not object to his presence, but as with Corvus and Parias, I just do not care about him.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Postby DoomRater » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:25 pm

While the machine gun's benefit is kinda lame (it doesn't obstruct your view as much), the pistol has infinite ammo so there's always a reason you might need to fall back to it.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:02 pm

Unless you turn on the option to make the weapon in slot 1 uses ammunition - which I do, as most compatible mapsets tend to be very generous in terms of ammo pickups already. Besides, since BJ has no weapon in slot 3, you get even more slot 1 ammo from shotguns and shells anyway.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Postby DoomRater » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:13 pm

That makes me wonder: what ammo would the mages dart staff use in the hands of Parias?
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Postby ElectricDragon » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:06 am

JohnnyTheWolf wrote:
Silentdarkness12 wrote:That's not limited, just simplistic, really. There's no accuracy dropoff on his weapons iirc.


It is limited in the sense that there is just no reason to use the Pistol or the Machine Gun once you get the Chaingun.

I get why BJ would be included in Samsara roster and I do not object to his presence, but as with Corvus and Parias, I just do not care about him.


The Machine gun has fairly decent DPS and doesn't eat through your ammo like it's candy. I usually save the Chaingun for Pinkies and minibosses.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:49 am

Maybe, but they are both automatic weapons, so it is like choosing between a machine gun and another machine gun. I had the same issue with Quake's Nailguns.

And again, in most compatible mapsets out there, ammo tends to be plentiful anyway, so I just do not see why I should bother with the Machine Gun.

I suppose this could be addressed by making the Chaingun crazy inaccurate, but that may take away BJ's uniqueness.

Also, another thing I dislike about BJ is his Heroes Don't Quit passive trait: personally, I would have tried making health and armour bonuses work like Wolf3d's treasures (read: extra points) and disabling armour for the character altogether. Not sure if it could be done or even be balanced at all, but at least, it would have a much more significant gameplay impact and it would not depend on something as random as decorations.
Last edited by JohnnyTheWolf on Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Postby Silentdarkness12 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:54 am

Yes, that would ruin BJ's uniqueness. Is being able to chaingun snipe.

The MG is more ammo-efficient though. Save the chaingun for the big nasty encounters, and use MG for all else.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Postby SiFi270 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:59 am

Speaking of which, I was lately wondering if his chaingun should replace the SSG instead of the machine gun. Because when a wad gives you a Super Shotgun, it's often saying "now you can handle big deal monsters like mancubi, barons, and arch-viles. I think I'll throw some at you now" and the machine gun doesn't really hold up in that kind of scenario.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Postby Silentdarkness12 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:10 am

What would be chaingun tho?

Just a crapload of Slot 1 ammo?
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Postby SiFi270 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:53 am

No, it would occupy two slots like the machine gun currently does.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Postby Untitled » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:59 am

It's worth nothing that in the majority of characters, the Slot 4 weapons outclasses the Slot 3 in utility function.
Hell, in a bunch of cases, the SSG replacement uses rocket/cell ammo.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Postby Silentdarkness12 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:19 pm

That seems like a straight downgrade, sifi.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Postby SiFi270 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:29 pm

Imagine you're playing a wad that, without mods, has yet to give you a chaingun but is currently presenting you with a super shotgun. When you collect it, an Arch-Vile appears that you have to deal with as quickly as possible. If you were playing through this wad as Blazkowicz, would you rather have a machine gun or a chaingun in this scenario?
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Postby Silentdarkness12 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:34 pm

I would want the chaingun. But if I had cover, I would gladly make do with the MG.

But what you're suggesting to replace the chaingun spawn is way too weak, for what that slot's supposed to be. The chaingun spawn slot is up a bit in rarity from the shotgun, theoretically. So giving it the exact same reward is a downgrade.
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