[WIP] The Trooper - 0.2.4.4 Released! [HITBOXES ARE FIXED]

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Re: [WIP] The Trooper - 0.2.2 Released! [ZOOM ZOOM]

Postby NullWire » Wed May 25, 2016 1:44 pm

TheRailgunner wrote:
JackGruff wrote:When I read this back when there was still one page, I said to myself, here's a mod for people who don't want to be thrown in the deep end of big game changers like Demonsteel but want something more than Weapons of Saturn.

Anyway, are you ever going to do a changelog? It's easy, just put what you would have posted in it :)


At some point, though I'm kind of having a crisis of direction as far as the mod is concerned - things like weapon/feature bloat and the need to separate the mod into a base mod and patches. I'm also trying to smooth out existing functionality as much as possible before moving on to the next feature or posting an update. I probably should've maintained a changelog from the start - I can go back and look at my update posts to compile one, but it may not be complete.

NullWire wrote:It's really interesting and badass but ¿Do you gonna add more weapons? Because that would be veeeeeeeeeery nice!

I have this ones for ideas;

-Hand grenades.
-Melee combo attacks with fist (includes kicks).
-Prox mines for a different gun.
-An vertical dual cannon Nailgun rifle, his alternate function makes appear another 2 cannons to shoot. (I have a draw design if you want to see it)
-A kind of Hell-tech gun?

I have several questions..

¿Why the knife it's too big?
¿Why the two kind of shotguns are in different slots and not in the same one?
¿In the future or later do you gonna add more kind of animations in the weapon sprites?


I may add more melee options in the future. Dunno about hand grenades or proximity mines. I don't know if I could make a new Helltech weapon happen, mostly because I probably couldn't produce the sprites. I don't really know what I'd do with a nailgun rifle - there may well be too many rifles as it is...

The knife is more because I only used one sprite and haven't really gotten around to making a complete animation of any kind. The shotguns are separate because I honestly hate having to switch to one to get to the other. Additional animation, hopefully - what kind of animations exactly are you referring to?


Maybe the ¨reload¨, aiming, animations in the sprites that make the weapon doesn't look so static and ¨quiet¨
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Re: [WIP] The Trooper - 0.2.3 Released! [EXTRA SHOTTY]

Postby TheRailgunner » Thu May 26, 2016 3:27 am

I might add reload animations (not actually a reload, just cosmetically for firing mode switches) when I have one for each weapon. Aiming...probably not, except maybe for the Pulsar and GPMG.

I've updated the Extra Weapons pack with a new weapon - the Ayanami/KSR VSK9 Thunderstrike automatic/burst-fire shotgun:

Image

It has a one-in-two-hundred-and-fifty-six chance of replacing a normal VSK7. The VSK9 has greater accuracy/tighter pellet spread, slightly higher damage (one extra pellet), and two firing modes - fully automatic and burst-fire, toggled via the Zoom function (burst-fire is ALSO automatic, however).

I've also uploaded a slight fix to the main mod, mostly to ensure that Extra Weapons' shotgun spawner works properly with it.
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Re: [WIP] The Trooper - 0.2.4 Released! [BULLET MODEL FIX]

Postby TheRailgunner » Mon May 30, 2016 4:45 pm

A minor update that fixes bullet models - as it turns out, modeldef entries are per-actor - actors that inherit from one with a modeldef entry don't inherit their model and hence must be defined separately.

The changes needed to update the Zandronum version relate to quick-melee - basically, every weapon's AttackSound needs to be redefined to "DSEMPTY" so that quick-melee actions can be cut down to the last argument Zand supports (unless "4.0"/G/ZDoom-current Zandronum becomes the main version, allowing me to use the GZDoom version as-is). Barring a surprise Zandy update, the next version that have feature-parity between GZDoom and Zandronum will be 0.2.5 - the Angelsphere Update.

EDIT: I've added a poll - at first to see if the Nishimura Seven was too powerful, but it kind of got out of hand. Still, I really want to know what you think about The Trooper, where it's headed, and what your hopes and expectations of it were and are.
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Re: [WIP] The Trooper - 0.2.4 Released! [MODEL FIX+POLL]

Postby comet1337 » Mon May 30, 2016 5:32 pm

there's quite a bit of the automatic gun variants indeed
i don't know what to expect from this when it hits V1.0, but i hope it'll provide great entertainment

judging from the poll options, i think your mod is having an existensial crisis
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Re: [WIP] The Trooper - 0.2.4 Released! [MODEL FIX+POLL]

Postby Carbine Dioxide » Mon May 30, 2016 6:02 pm

Man, there's so many things I want to choose in the poll, but I can only choose one option.

I want to say that there are a little bit too much weapons after the Gehiron came out.

I don't like the fact that the Last Salvo and the Aries Sharp Shooter Prosthesis got Doom 4 sprites, it doesn't seem as unique now. I always thought of the Sharp Shooter as a energy type rail gun, while the Last Salvo was a penetrating rocket launcher.

The knife is a bit big.

One thing that would be cool for the LS would be to have the projectiles do an area effect of damage while they're shot out, to do damage to enemies that can't feel the damage from the explosion, if that makes any sense. :P

I plan on making my own version someday, when I get a computer or laptop where SLADE doesn't corrupt my damn Pk3 files.
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Re: [WIP] The Trooper - 0.2.4 Released! [MODEL FIX+POLL]

Postby TheRailgunner » Mon May 30, 2016 7:21 pm

comet1338 wrote:there's quite a bit of the automatic gun variants indeed
i don't know what to expect from this when it hits V1.0, but i hope it'll provide great entertainment

judging from the poll options, i think your mod is having an existensial crisis


It is - the work I put into The Trooper produces increasingly diminishing returns (for some fucking reason, despite the fact that I'm actively working on this mod, Helsturm's thread keeps getting necrobumped even though updates have been scarce and the normal version of the mod literally no longer runs). I know I can't please everybody, and I can't get everyone to constantly download my mod and post about it on the daily, but from the outside, The Trooper looks like a dead mod, and it's hampering my will to continue work on it - it seems like I'm only working on it for my own benefit, and that whatever improvements, fixes, updates, or changes I make only impact my gameplay experience, because everyone else just kind of left the mod behind. It feels like I'm the only one who plays this mod at all, if I'm being completely honest.

@Carbine Dioxide: Shit, I should've changed the number of options one can choose - I'll get on it.

The Last Salvo was meant to be somewhat close to its current incarnation, but I was in a rush to replace the Rocket Launcher to ensure that Doom weapons didn't make it into weapon selection. The ASP, on the other hand, was supposed to look, well, like a complicated piece of alien machinery, which its original sprites very much did not. I'll think about finding different sprites for the Last Salvo.

The LS' projectiles are supposed to deal damage in-transit (before they actually connect), but their travel speed seems to prevent this. Either that, or the explosions are poorly timed.

The knife is indeed too big, but I'm not really prioritizing it at the moment - I will, at some point, improve the animation on it (and eventually the rest of the weapons).

So, the poll will now allow up to 8 options - I trust no one will select contradictory options.

EDIT: As of the next update, I am removing the Francis G8K, as it fills a role too similar to that of the Sokova 46. Ammo for the GPMG will no longer spawn apart from the weapon pickup itself, and will not be selectable once empty (I may even have the player visibly "drop the weapon" once this happens) - this brings it more to its original purpose as a brief supply of high firepower akin to X-Weapon's Triple Chaingun, as well as moving it further away from the DGA-3's role. I also intend to make it slightly less accurate, enough so that it won't be used like a mini-sniper, which is more or less the Pulsar-D's role until the player finds an ASP.
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Re: [WIP] The Trooper - 0.2.4 Released! [MODEL FIX+POLL]

Postby Wivicer » Mon May 30, 2016 8:01 pm

TheRailgunner wrote:It is - the work I put into The Trooper produces increasingly diminishing returns (for some fucking reason, despite the fact that I'm actively working on this mod, Helsturm's thread keeps getting necrobumped even though updates have been scarce and the normal version of the mod literally no longer runs). I know I can't please everybody, and I can't get everyone to constantly download my mod and post about it on the daily, but from the outside, The Trooper looks like a dead mod, and it's hampering my will to continue work on it - it seems like I'm only working on it for my own benefit, and that whatever improvements, fixes, updates, or changes I make only impact my gameplay experience, because everyone else just kind of left the mod behind. It feels like I'm the only one who plays this mod at all, if I'm being completely honest.


Hey man, I feel that. Shortly after dump 2 was completed, I began work on what I was hoping would become a wad of at least 5 maps. I finished 2, and began on the third one. I never finished it because the whole time I had been posting my progress here, along with a download of my work and a message asking for constructive criticism, and I got, maybe, 4 responses? You're doing great work here; I've downloaded and played every iteration and I love the things you're doing. My point is, don't be like me; Finish what you started. All of the responses you've gotten are positive and constructive. I can assure you, this mod is getting played.

Also: are the surfeit torment's bullets supposed to move slowly? Because they are in this new version.
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Re: [WIP] The Trooper - 0.2.4 Released! [MODEL FIX+POLL]

Postby TheRailgunner » Mon May 30, 2016 8:53 pm

Wivicer wrote:
TheRailgunner wrote:It is - the work I put into The Trooper produces increasingly diminishing returns (for some fucking reason, despite the fact that I'm actively working on this mod, Helsturm's thread keeps getting necrobumped even though updates have been scarce and the normal version of the mod literally no longer runs). I know I can't please everybody, and I can't get everyone to constantly download my mod and post about it on the daily, but from the outside, The Trooper looks like a dead mod, and it's hampering my will to continue work on it - it seems like I'm only working on it for my own benefit, and that whatever improvements, fixes, updates, or changes I make only impact my gameplay experience, because everyone else just kind of left the mod behind. It feels like I'm the only one who plays this mod at all, if I'm being completely honest.


Hey man, I feel that. Shortly after dump 2 was completed, I began work on what I was hoping would become a wad of at least 5 maps. I finished 2, and began on the third one. I never finished it because the whole time I had been posting my progress here, along with a download of my work and a message asking for constructive criticism, and I got, maybe, 4 responses? You're doing great work here; I've downloaded and played every iteration and I love the things you're doing. My point is, don't be like me; Finish what you started. All of the responses you've gotten are positive and constructive. I can assure you, this mod is getting played.

Also: are the surfeit torment's bullets supposed to move slowly? Because they are in this new version.


wut

Holy shit, I did not realize that went through - I lowered the speed to test the tracer models on the_trooper.pk3 (as opposed to the_trooper_RDND.pk3, which I usually run), and must have forgotten to fix it after making sure the models worked on the RDND build. Oops.
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Re: [WIP] The Trooper - 0.2.4 Released! [MODEL FIX+POLL]

Postby Wivicer » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:12 pm

That was meant to be positive encouragement. Oh well.
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Re: [WIP] The Trooper - 0.2.4 Released! [MODEL FIX+POLL]

Postby TheRailgunner » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:02 am

Wivicer wrote:That was meant to be positive encouragement. Oh well.


It's not that it isn't, I've just been waiting until I had significant progress before posting an update of any sort (that, and the slow bullets thing wasn't something I expected to slip through the cracks).

The poll's got another week or so left, but so far the overwhelming consensus seems to be that the weapons and monsters need some diversity, with maps, story, and unique player assets (hands, sprites, voice acting) not far behind, along with the realization that I got a bit carried away with the poll options. As far as the Nishimura Seven is concerned, it's in a weird place, and I'm thinking I may rework its location on the power ladder, so to speak, but right now I honestly haven't gotten enough testing under ideal circumstances (finding the weapon naturally spawned inside a level during normal gameplay) to honestly say if it's overpowered or not relative to its role.
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Re: [WIP] The Trooper - 0.2.4 Released! [MODEL FIX+POLL]

Postby Somagu » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:37 am

Wow, I had no idea you were upset about the attention X-Weapon/Helsturm receives instead of this mod. Well, I had tried this a while ago back when you launched it and thought it was an okay, if basic mod, with more of a focus on polish and extremely kicky weapons rather than lots of gimmicks, monster or weapon wise. I see that at some point, however, the mod shifted completely! I don't mind mods with insane amounts of ammo types, and while I do still personally think it's a cute gimmick, it's absolutely insane here, because some weapons have 3 (!) ammo types. I didn't even know weapons could HAVE tertiary ammo types! Although this has the effect of easily throttling stronger weapons, it also has the side-effect of throttling just about every other damn thing, too. Obviously it depends on the mapset, but nearly the entire way through I was almost consistently finishing nearly every fight with no ammo, by the end of some maps/big fights. I suppose this is better than the closely related alternative, which is not having enough ammo to kill things, but given how carefully I place my shots, I was only a few mistakes away from having to melee mancupodes and cacodemons to death. I'm not sure if this is your intention, but that's more of less the way it's working out so far. If so, well then good show and keep up your somehow incredibly closely balanced ammo work! If not, then start with anything except the shotguns.

The monsters are pretty okay, even though they're really just currently half-fast. Do you plan on doing anything else with them?

Anyway, as for the weapons themselves! Although I've never been a fan of automatic, or even semi-automatic shotguns, the weapons for the most part feel nice and punchy, and usually do what feels like enough damage. I don't really have any good weapon-specific feedback yet, I just wanted to make this post to hopefully give a bit of vaguely constructive feedback for now.

[edit]Except for one thing. Revenant fireballs track way too well, and with worse sidestepping and jumping force disabled in a level set it's almost impossible to evade them currently.

[further edit]The ammo problem alleviates itself a bit as you actually find more weapons, especially if you have extra weapons on. As such, assume my ammo/weapon feedback will be with the extra weapons enabled, unless noted otherwise.

[more edits]I love the custom crosshairs, although I think the the HP red could be just a very teensy bit more bright red, to call more attention to it. It's pale, so it's slightly harder to see in the peripheral. Maybe just me.
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Re: [WIP] The Trooper - 0.2.4 Released! [MODEL FIX+POLL]

Postby TheRailgunner » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:52 pm

Somagu wrote:Wow, I had no idea you were upset about the attention X-Weapon/Helsturm receives instead of this mod. Well, I had tried this a while ago back when you launched it and thought it was an okay, if basic mod, with more of a focus on polish and extremely kicky weapons rather than lots of gimmicks, monster or weapon wise. I see that at some point, however, the mod shifted completely! I don't mind mods with insane amounts of ammo types, and while I do still personally think it's a cute gimmick, it's absolutely insane here, because some weapons have 3 (!) ammo types. I didn't even know weapons could HAVE tertiary ammo types! Although this has the effect of easily throttling stronger weapons, it also has the side-effect of throttling just about every other damn thing, too. Obviously it depends on the mapset, but nearly the entire way through I was almost consistently finishing nearly every fight with no ammo, by the end of some maps/big fights. I suppose this is better than the closely related alternative, which is not having enough ammo to kill things, but given how carefully I place my shots, I was only a few mistakes away from having to melee mancupodes and cacodemons to death. I'm not sure if this is your intention, but that's more of less the way it's working out so far. If so, well then good show and keep up your somehow incredibly closely balanced ammo work! If not, then start with anything except the shotguns.

The monsters are pretty okay, even though they're really just currently half-fast. Do you plan on doing anything else with them?

Anyway, as for the weapons themselves! Although I've never been a fan of automatic, or even semi-automatic shotguns, the weapons for the most part feel nice and punchy, and usually do what feels like enough damage. I don't really have any good weapon-specific feedback yet, I just wanted to make this post to hopefully give a bit of vaguely constructive feedback for now.

[edit]Except for one thing. Revenant fireballs track way too well, and with worse sidestepping and jumping force disabled in a level set it's almost impossible to evade them currently.

[further edit]The ammo problem alleviates itself a bit as you actually find more weapons, especially if you have extra weapons on. As such, assume my ammo/weapon feedback will be with the extra weapons enabled, unless noted otherwise.

[more edits]I love the custom crosshairs, although I think the the HP red could be just a very teensy bit more bright red, to call more attention to it. It's pale, so it's slightly harder to see in the peripheral. Maybe just me.


I'll start with ammo - it was indeed my intention for ammo to be relatively tight - early testing made it obvious that there was too much ammo lying around for every weapon, more or less allowing people to "one-gun" everything, often recuperating at least what was spent by level's end. The shotguns still suffer from this somewhat (answered with the introduction of the VSK9, which, despite being objectively a straight upgrade to the VSK7, somehow burns through ammo more needlessly), and the Surfeit Torment gets like this once the player has enough weapons to leave it alone for a few levels. I generally try to do as much as I can without actually spending ammo, or at least a trite amount - for example, two Sokova 46 bullets and a melee is guaranteed to kill an Imp, and incurs minimal risk of retaliation. Not that I want the player to rely entirely on melees, but using it when the opportunity presents itself is suggested - this is why I decided to implement quick-melee, after all. Ironically, most of my frustration and subsequent burnout regarding playing Doom while playtesting the mod comes from dying way too often when trying to Knife Tyson my way as far as humanly possible through the first level of a given mapset (the rest is dying after finding that oh-so-rare weapon that I've been hellbent on trying to get - another aspect of the mod that I find myself cursing up and down). Some weapon are explicitly designed to engage certain types of enemies in certain scenarios (the DGA-3 fusion rifle is best against groups - the larger, the better - while Surfeit Torment's specialty is stacking area damage), and taking this into account before engaging is going to save you a lot of ammo - sure, a DGA-3 may take down a Hell Knight in two to three shots, but for one or two more shots and a little less elbow room, you could kill, say, six Hell Knights with minimal difficulty and hold on to the ten to fifteen shots you would've spent extra to defeat each one individually. Ammo type variety allows weapons to either excel further at their role or briefly supplant a different weapon when you start running out of options.

To be honest, the reason the shotguns are semi and auto is entirely because I'm lazy - pump action shotguns, even with no reload, require pumping, and break-barrels have to be reloaded after each use (it also helps that GTA5's Heavy Shotgun, on which the VSK7 is based, is a Saiga-12 semi-auto - the Kalashnikov-esque aesthetic and recoil properties also result from this). The problem I have is relatively simple: automatic rifles are stupid easy to code, and there aren't terribly many variations one can truly make on "thing shoots things at things" before you start reaching outside the box for straws (like a cotton-candy gun). Some games do well with this issue - Duke Nukem's Freezethrower and Shrink Ray are the most prominent examples of "diverse" weaponry simply because they have a gimmick besides bullets, pellets, and explosions, but thinking of weapons like this - without using the same concepts - is a lot more difficult than I hoped it would be. Perhaps I simply need to be more creative, but right now, I've got nothing (except maybe that cotton-candy gun).

I want to add more monsters as well as give more variety to monster behaviors, but I also have to be careful not to make it overwhelming to the player - Helsturm and X-Weapon very notably suffer from this, as enemies are close to player-weapon accurate, have higher health, and are incredibly aggressive. It's a fine line.

I had a feeling that I made the Revenant rockets track too much - I've suspected it ever since fixing its tracer, but assumed that it must have just been me.

As far as The Trooper and conflicts with map settings, the most I can say is either "there's a patch for that" or that I'm considering trying to circumvent Doom's normal jumping mechanic with a custom one.

I probably shouldn't have made a big ado about my older project being bumped over my newer one, but I guess I just really wanted to keep my more complete project in the loop. Honestly, I feel a little embarrassed that I made my feelings on the matter publicly known - it was not the most exciting or productive day IRL, and that probably translated poorly with regards to my forum activity. Then again, if the thread hadn't been bumped, I wouldn't have known that Helsturm's normal build no longer works with newer versions of GZDoom, so I really shouldn't be upset.

The poll is giving me a good idea of what needs improvement here, and that, in and of itself, is actually rather satisfying.

EDIT: VSK9 sprite improvement, and also product-improved Doomguy hands:

Image

I want Joe Nameless to look like a midway between Doomguy's classic armor and the Praetor Suit - full-body coverage, but not necessarily fucking powered armor. I may, or may not, give him a passing resemblance to Rip&Tearguy, mostly because of how much crazier his hair looks (not related to JN's personality or character, but I don't want him to look like stock Doomguy).
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Re: [WIP] The Trooper - 0.2.4 Released! [MODEL FIX+POLL]

Postby AdmiralAjax » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:06 pm

So I don't know if this is a problem with zdoom or something else, but whenever I pick up the demon sword, I can't select it. Same with the knife.
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Re: [WIP] The Trooper - 0.2.4 Released! [MODEL FIX+POLL]

Postby Somagu » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:11 pm

That's because you don't actually select them. You use them by binding and pressing User State 1 and 2.
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Re: [WIP] The Trooper - 0.2.4 Released! [MODEL FIX+POLL]

Postby Sgt. Shivers » Fri Jun 03, 2016 5:38 am

Hey, I think the GPMG is an edit of a Type 92 Rip I did. This mod is pretty neat!
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