[WIP]Colourful Hell 0.97ccc (+brown Beta #5)

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What do with black shotgun spawn?

Poll ended at Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:24 am

keep as they are
0
No votes
modify a little for ranged options
0
No votes
Remake the crew for better variance
2
29%
Remake with focus on the leader as the boss
5
71%
Rehaul and scrap the concept, make something else shotgunny instead
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 7

Re: [WIP]Colourful Hell 0.97ccc (+brown Beta )

Postby Machine-Reaper » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:52 am

fakemai wrote:That will be harder. DRLM uses mapinfo.txt to bring in random monster spawners, so your best bet would be to use that as a base, bring in any Colourful Hell monsters you want as well as their sounds and graphics, and make them a type of spawn in the random lists they use. It's the Brütal Doom quandary to hope they will work together.


hmmm, you have given me good information, hehehehe

well lets find out if it works
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Re: [WIP]Colourful Hell 0.97ccc (+brown Beta )

Postby Hege Cactus » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:52 pm

Yeah you can set a lot of weird spawn stuff with mapinfo

Anyway another brown beta release;
Brown beta #3

Added brown demon, spectre, arachnotron and mancubi

Nothing else special for now
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Re: [WIP]Colourful Hell 0.97ccc (+brown Beta )

Postby Zenon » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:59 am

It seems Colorful Hell doesn't play very nicely with Brightmaps Plus..
at least when it comes to the Cacodemons and Arachnotrons.

Keep in mind I'm not, by any means expecting the brightmaps to work with all the monsters with different sprites as opposed to palette translations

Ah, I fixed it, just gotta load d2spfx19 in front of it
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Re: [WIP]Colourful Hell 0.97ccc (+brown Beta )

Postby Alptraum » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:15 am

Next update when?
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Re: [WIP]Colourful Hell 0.97ccc (+brown Beta )

Postby skdursh » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:27 am

Alptraum wrote:Next update when?


Probably when it's ready I would imagine.
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Re: [WIP]Colourful Hell 0.97ccc (+brown Beta )

Postby Dewzanity » Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:50 pm

I found some kind of glitch with the White Spider. One of the Mini spiders from the White Spider had negative 3 HP, but it was still chasing me. I checked the automap with iddt and found out the one mini spider was identified as an actor rather than a monster. I couldn't kill it with anything, not even explosives. This occurence was super strange, and I have no clue what the problem is or how to fix it.
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Re: [WIP]Colourful Hell 0.97ccc (+brown Beta )

Postby Cerazor01 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:11 am

I don't exactly know how to make an Error log with GZDoom 4-2-4, but I get a bunch of script Errors on launch. Should I try the Beta?
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Re: [WIP]Colourful Hell 0.97ccc (+brown Beta )

Postby Poisoncrab » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:33 pm

I like the mod so far, definitely the most unique randomizer for Doom atm, but I do have some criticisms. The Cyan, Abyss, and gray monsters are more frustrating to deal with than challenging and the abyss enemies spawn far too often even with less spawns enabled; The brown and fire blue monsters are fine though. I'd also recommend coloring key parts of certain monsters like their eyes and armor (if they have any) rather than the whole sprite, coloring the whole sprite may work with some monsters but it just looks odd with most.
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Re: [WIP]Colourful Hell 0.97ccc (+brown Beta )

Postby Chloroxite » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:34 pm

Is it possible we could get an update to the compatibility patch for Guncaster? The old one seems to no longer work.
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Re: [WIP]Colourful Hell 0.97ccc (+brown Beta )

Postby Poisoncrab » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:48 pm

Now that I've played even more of the mod I'd like to add another round of feedback, mainly concerning the black and white enemies. I don't think the B/W monsters should really be hard mode bosses with the lower tier enemies, they should still be far tougher than the standards but not as over powered as they are now. Here's my long list of suggestions for balancing out the B/W enemies.

Player 9 (Black Zombie): I would reduce his health to 400, he'll only be about as tough as a cacodemon be he will still have all of the crazy attacks and fast movement.

Undertaker: (White Zombie): Reduce health to 444

Shotgun Squad (black shotgunner): Reduce leaders health to about 500 and maybe half the health of his squad mates, other than that the black shot gunner isn't too bad.

Benellus (white shotgunner): I might recommend just reworking this one entirely, I'm going to be honest this might be the weakest of all the new monsters, from the visual design all the way to his attacks. His design is just strange and honestly doesn't really fit Doom, I recommend using the heaven guard sprite or maybe even Zardaz from realm667. As for the attacks, they are just way too spammy, that coupled with his high HP just makes for a very frustrating experience. As far as nerfing him goes I'd start by bringing his health way down, to 555 or something and make the attacks less of a spam fest.

BFG Commando (Black chaingunner): a little bit too spammy in terms of attack patterns but overall this guy's not too bad, I'd bring his health down to about 630 though, I don't think a chaingunner variant should be tougher than a Cyberdemon.

Mad Scientist:(white chaingunner): Much like the white shotgunner this one is just way too OP to make for a well balanced fight. I'd reduce the health to 700 and maybe make her attacks less crazy. I'd also recommend changing the appearance and style of the monster cuz I kind of feel like she's a joke monster. I'd recommend using the banshee sprite from realm667 and have her spawn groups of malevolent spirits instead of weird monster combos, than again this is really just my opinion if you're happy with the scientist than go ahead and keep her, still at least consider balancing her out more.

Mist Caller (Black Imp): Not a bad fight overall, I'd just reduce the health to about 600 or so as I think he's a bit to beefy atm.

Imp Shaman (White Imp): Another relatively well designed enemy, his attack patterns don't make him too frustrating. He is a bit too beefy though, I'd bring the health down too about 666

Butcher (Black pinky): reduce health to about 650, other than that he's not too bad

Juggernaut (White Pinky): Maybe reduce the radius of the shockwave, seems a bit too difficult to avoid. Also I'd reduce the health to about 730

Rogue (Black Spectre): reduce health to about 595

Trash Monster (White spectre): I'd knock the health down to about 615 since he's rather hard to hit. Right now his high health just makes him way too annoying to fight

Bee Swarm (Black Lost Soul): Not the bees, seriously. I see another joke monster with this one and an irritating joke at that. I recommend a reworking. I'd use the terror from realm667. The way the terror functions is that it's black flame creates a shadow around it and if anything is in this shadow while attacking the soul than whatever damage is dealt to the terror is reflected back at it's attacker. I'd keep this function and maybe add the ability to fire slow moving projectiles that cast more of these deadly shadows. As for health I'd put it at about 675.

Delirium (White Soul): Knock the health back to about 710 and make the attacks of the clones a bit weaker

Black Knight (Black Revenant): I'd bring the health back to about 1060, half the health of the second phase and maybe make the attacks less spammy. The second phase is by far the worst esp the blue soul barrage. I'd make him shoot only one large soul that moves slower but does a large amount of damage.

White Revenant: reduce health to about 1145 and make him have less spammy attacks

Hades Elemental (Black Cacodemon): reduce health to about 1200

Eye of Madness (White Caco): another spamfest, definitely nerf this guys attacks a bit and also bring down the health to about 1250 and the second phase should be half that amount.

Soul Mother (Black Pain elemental): reduce health to about 1300 and a bit less spam with the attacks. I know I've used the term spam a lot here but spammy attacks is a major issue with much of the black & white monsters.

Robot Ball (White Pain Elemental): SPAAAM, also not digging the visual style, maybe if the tech was mixed with some gore it would fit Doom better. If you want another suggestion on a different appearance maybe the Sentinel from Hellforged with the black metal colored white. As for health I'd bring to about 1400 and give the watcher half that amount.

Black Arachnotron (not here yet): This guy has yet to exist but I thought I'd help with some suggestions. In terms of visual design id suggest the aracknight from hellfoged. Attacks? maybe a barrage of dark energy balls that deal high damage and a larger explosive ball that could one shot the player if their not careful . Health? 1500

Brood Mother (White Arachnotron): This one is just....no, spawning a million tiny spiders....just no I'd instead have her spit out a cluster of eggs that pop and release trites and give the player the ability to destroy the eggs. As for health? 1600

Black Hellknight: reduce health to 2000

White Hellnight: maybe reduce the number of summoned spectres and give each 2000 health instead of 5

Flame Golem (Red Mancubus): maybe a little less spammy with the attacks

Dark Beast (Black Mancubus): Reduce health to 2500

White Mancubus: this one seems to be still a work in progress. Maybe use the greater incubus sprite with a lighter color and keep it's attacks as they are already quite powerful and maybe it can have the ability to melt itself and appear elsewhere as a sort of teleportation. As for health? 2650 should do.

Red Archvile: Make it's attacks a bit easier to avoid and maybe reduce the health 2300

Black Archvile: less spam and reduce it's health to about 2750

White Archvile: reduce health 2800

Black Baron: reduce health to 3000

White Baron: Suggestion, the Baron of time. A demon with the power to warp time itself (inspired by the time imp from realm667) The Time baron's basic attacks are much like the regular Baron but a bit faster and deals more damage. The time baron has 2 special abilities that give it control over time. Slow Time: this slows down time, slowing the movement of everything on the map but the time baron, this effect lasts until the time baron is either killed or he decides to stop it himself. Freeze Time: This freezes time, completely stopping movement for everything except the baron, this lasts for 5 seconds. When the baron is killed it's soul can be seen leaving it's body but after a short period it's soul will renter resurrecting the baron. The baron will be much faster in this second phase so be careful. Health wise I'd say around 3000. As for the sprite I was thinking maybe the Hell's Fury from realm667.

Black Mastermind: The black out attack should only last a few seconds

White Cyberdemon: This one goes beyond joke monster, this ones just a straight up troll monster. I'd say a nerf is required plus I'd also choose a less ridiculous sprite, maybe a paler version of the Annihilator?

Other Suggestions

Cyan/Gray/abyss enemies: My issue with these guys still stand from my last post, they need to be significantly nerfed.

Appearance suggestions: I'd like to expand on my suggestions for monster appearances. While some look fine fully colored others don't. I know this mod is still a W.I.P so this will likely change but I'd thought I would throw out some suggestions anyway. Most of the sprites I'll suggest are from realm667 and the suggestions refer mainly to their visuals not their attack patterns.

Zombieman: Green, Blue, Purple, I'd just color the armor of these guys rather than the whole sprite

Brown Zombie man: I'd use the exterminator sprite as the current one doesn't really look much like a zombie to me

Shotgunner: Green - Yellow, again color the armor and maybe the eyes

Chaingunner: purple, armor and eyes, purple skin just looks strange

Imps:
Green Imp: doesn't look bad, I'd use maybe the Vulgar sprite just to add some diversity in the visuals.

Blue Imp: Lesser Mutant with a more bluish color

Purple Imp: Horned Imp but with purple glowing eyes and have it's gun fire the bouncing purple orbs rather than just being a regular shotgun.

Yellow Imp: Cartharsi but give it's eyes and mouth a yellow glow

Pinkies:
Blue Pinky: already looks pretty good but I'll still add a suggestion for more visual diversity. How about a trite but larger and with glowing blue eyes

Purple Pinky: Satyr, but with glowing purple eyes

Cacodemons:
Green Caco: Weakener

Blue Caco: Inferno from hellforged but the magma within is blue colored as well as it's eye

Purple Caco: Litch from heretic but with Purple glowing eyes

Blue Pain Elemental, would look better with just the mouth and eyes colored rather than the horns.

Revenants:

Blue & Purple, would look better if only their armor was colored. The purple rev could also use the draugr sprite from Hellforged with purple glowing eyes and a purplish tint on the armor

Arachnotrons:
green spider: would look better with just the eyes colored

Blue Spider: the chaingun arachnotron with glowing blue eyes

Purple Arachno: miniature version of the archophyte but with purple flamejets and eyes

Yellow arachno: color the eyes rather than the whole sprite

Mancubi:
Green Mancubus: maybe use the corpulent from hellforged but make it's eyes and blood color green. You could add more blood stains on him since his weapons are crudely grafted onto his body

Blue Mancubus: Wendigo from Hexen but make the sprite more blue

Purple mancubus: Behemoth from Hellforged but with purple eyes and purple tinted armor

Hellknights:
Green Hellknight: hellsguard sprite from realm 667 but tint it's armor green

Blue Hellknight: Dual axe undead knight but it's axes have a blue glow, maybe tint their armor blue as well

Purple Hellknight: Afrit but colored purple

Barons:
Blue Baron: Hellstorm archon but with blue fire under his feet and blue skin

Purple Baron: Hierophant but purplish in color

Cybies:
Green Cyberdemon: dark cardinal

Blue Cyber Demon: Hellduke from hellforged with blue colored eyes, loin cloth and weapon glow

Purple CyberDemon: Thamuz but with it's green tint changed to purple

Red Cyberdemon: Terminator rather than just the stadium boss from Duke Nukem recolored

Black Cyberdemon: Hellsmith from hellforged, fits doom a lot more

Masterminds:
Blue Mastermind: Director from Hellforged

Purple Mastermind: I'd just color the eyes rather than the whole sprite
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Re: [WIP]Colourful Hell 0.97ccc (+brown Beta )

Postby Dewzanity » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:22 am

Now that I've played even more of the mod I'd like to add another round of feedback, mainly concerning the black and white enemies. I don't think the B/W monsters should really be hard mode bosses with the lower tier enemies, they should still be far tougher than the standards but not as over powered as they are now. Here's my long list of suggestions for balancing out the B/W enemies.


I agree with a lot of these suggestions, but not the health nerfs. I like B/W monsters better as bosses rather than minibosses or rather than having B/W tiers be involved in the organized progressive difficulty of the other tiers. If they were all nerfed like that, the game would be rather easy when you're about 10-20 maps in or so. Seeing a white zombie, or the strongest zombie variant 5 maps in, you could just peekaboo shoot with SSG in three shots and say "GG EZ, Ahaha!". Or being able to 1 shot BFG a Black Fatso without it getting a chance to attack you would be rather anticlimactic. The B/W enemies are also rare enough where they might not spawn for the first few maps so that you can get the weaponry to have a chance to kill them later on in a wad.

I'd like it if the B/W enemies were as easy as you say they should be when your on the first or second map or so. If they could progressively gain more health when they spawn depending on your weapons later on, that would be a great way to balance them, but unfortunately due to other weapon packs that can be played with this mod, it would be very complicated, or near impossible to set up a progressive health system.

Also this mod, and especially B/W monsters are very difficult to play on vanilla Doom. I would recommend playing this mod with a weapon pack to make everything appropriately fair towards the player.

So I don't think any major health nerfs will be made, but it'd be cool to see a progressive health system depending on weaponry. Also, you could open this mod with Slade at http://www.slade.mancubus.net and modify the monsters to your liking if you wanted.
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Re: [WIP]Colourful Hell 0.97ccc (+brown Beta )

Postby Poisoncrab » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:56 am

I agree with a lot of these suggestions, but not the health nerfs. I like B/W monsters better as bosses rather than minibosses or rather than having B/W tiers be involved in the organized progressive difficulty of the other tiers. If they were all nerfed like that, the game would be rather easy when you're about 10-20 maps in or so


Yeah I may have gone overboard with some of the health nerfs, although I still think their attack patterns need to be worked on as many of the B/W enemies are just unfair to fight.
Last edited by Poisoncrab on Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [WIP]Colourful Hell 0.97ccc (+brown Beta )

Postby Poisoncrab » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:32 pm

I've also been testing the mod recently with Flakes weapon mod and I've found it to be a lot more fun than with the vanilla weapons, even the Cyan, Gray, and abyss enemies are less frustrating to fight now. However they can still be a nightmare in enclosed areas so wads that take after the more cramped level design of Doom 1 like No End in sight are better off played with those enemies disabled.
Last edited by Poisoncrab on Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [WIP]Colourful Hell 0.97ccc (+brown Beta )

Postby Hege Cactus » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:57 pm

I don't exactly know how to make an Error log with GZDoom 4-2-4, but I get a bunch of script Errors on launch. Should I try the Beta?


You can ignore the errors if they dont crash the game,chunk of the error messages are for compatibility checking
Beta version can generally be bit better experience with some of the balancing and such tho

Is it possible we could get an update to the compatibility patch for Guncaster? The old one seems to no longer work.


There should be a version of guncaster called vindicated I think that should make universally compatibility with all monster mods if I recall correctly, could look into that one

I found some kind of glitch with the White Spider. One of the Mini spiders from the White Spider had negative 3 HP, but it was still chasing me. I checked the automap with iddt and found out the one mini spider was identified as an actor rather than a monster. I couldn't kill it with anything, not even explosives. This occurence was super strange, and I have no clue what the problem is or how to fix it.


White arachnotron is on the list of to be overhauled monsters


I'd like it if the B/W enemies were as easy as you say they should be when your on the first or second map or so. If they could progressively gain more health when they spawn depending on your weapons later on, that would be a great way to balance them, but unfortunately due to other weapon packs that can be played with this mod, it would be very complicated, or near impossible to set up a progressive health system.


Id been wanting to make that sort of system for a while actually but it has a lot of issues on how to actually read the player progress as some mappacks are long, others are short, some mods give you slow growth of power, others quick.
Cause this mod is monsters only you really cannot so easily measure the player strength.

@poisoncrab

I recommend using a weapon mod or modifier mod or using the options accordingly, as this is a randomizer mod, a lot of the things are in the hand of RNG, tho you can effect that with the spawn rate tweaker if you want(in first post).
Cyan and Abyss are monsters mostly designed for more modded experience as they are strong and fast, granted, there are some abyssal imbalances where there is gonna be few fixes coming, I generally dont recommend using abyssals if you are not going to have a weapon mod or modifier mod going.

This same goes for the black and white monsters, as they are bosses, they have to be challenging. I aim to make the fights be learn-able so after fighting a boss, you should slowly be able to tell what its gonna do. You could say that the black bosses will punish you if you are not careful, white monsters will likely cause you to have few run ins before you get what they are doing, EX monsters are the type you want to avoid if you're not ready. Depending on the RNG tho, things are very situational.

Making bosses be fair and fun in random factor where you can never fore see where they spawn is hard and while I aim to make them not too frustrating, I dont want them to be easy either, and bluntly speaking, its why black and white tiers are optional like the other tweakable tiers since they can be bit much for vanilla play.

Many enemies are tough and the HP might seem high, but if they were under certain treshholds or didnt move much, many of em would be one to two shot by vanilla BFG, so they need to be either bulky or fast.
Handling lot of colourful hell monsters is up to learning and reactions, sometimes tho, RNG will give you near impossible situations if its feeling cruel

I do appreciate the feedback tho (outside the HP tweaks that is) and Ill say some of the fight behaviors are true and there are changes still in the air for them; bee's are gonna get some behavioral changes to make em less annoying and more interesting, the white arachnotron is gonna be re hauled




Black Arachnotron (not here yet): This guy has yet to exist but I thought I'd help with some suggestions

He does exist and even has an EX form. He is literally the macross missile spammer spider

On the appearance suggestions;
I am always up for tweaking the looks and translations and you've given be some good ideas, tho keep in mind, I also aim to keep their looks and colours as easy to regonize as possible as one of the ideas of this mod is to make sure you know who to shoot first, so I'll probably will have bit more colour but I like idea of giving more weight on their outfit&armors
Many of these sprite suggestions are something Ill look into aswell as variance does give em more spice, but I also have some all out custom ones on the way so who knows whats up a head


Talking of custom sprites, here's a little looksie;
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Re: [WIP]Colourful Hell 0.97ccc (+brown Beta )

Postby Bodhisattva » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:25 pm

Hege Cactus wrote:Talking of custom sprites, here's a little looksie;


This is just perfect! I've always wanted all Colourful Hell monsters to have more or less unique sprites with pretty colours instead of being oversaturated one-colour palette swaps. This gorgeous mastermind is definitely a step in the right direction.
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