[Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.9 desu~

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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.82 OSHITOSH

Postby TerminusEst13 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:24 pm

Jaxxoon R wrote:I didn't like the sounds, since they all existed within the same general range they all sounded very similar and so fights would just become a wall of mushy noise. Not to mention, now all Doom monsters sound relatively the same because every one has the same gurgley hissy sounds. Except Archvile, he's hilarious,

Jaxxoon R wrote:What I mean is, most monsters sound similar all around. In the original game you could walk into a room and hear "UWAAAH" "AAAAA" and "MMMH-WRAGH" and know you're dealing with a baron, a revenant, and a mancubus without even looking at them. Now you walk into a room and it's just "HSSSGRMBRGRLGMR" from almost everything, and it's kind of an unnecessary change anyways. They still look exactly the same as they always did, why change how they sound--- and to make them so generic, no less?

This sounds like a matter of unfamiliarity more than anything else. I think this would be a problem regardless of DemonSteele, or Nazis!, or Terrorists, or Mutiny.

I strived specifically to give each monster a very specific, unique, and different sound set. The Wizards and Emperor yell specific words at you. The DevilDriver has a deep, cybernetic voice. The Archvile has laughter on everything. The Yakuza speak Japanese. The zombies are normal voices speaking slobbering gibberish. The Mancubus has deep hissing on all of his quotes. The Pinky is animal growls. The Blackened and Lost Souls have warbled baby voices, etc. While I'm not 100% satisfied with everything, such as how the Revenant's isn't really indicative enough (the AAAAAAAAAAAAA is far too iconic and their current SeeSound falls completely flat), saying that you don't know what sounds represent what enemies I think is more a matter of being far more familiar with the vanilla enemies.
The enemies aren't exactly the same as the vanilla enemies--even getting past the obvious sprite replacements like the Wizard, the Steele Beast, the DevilDriver, etc. Even the enemies that aren't replaced yet but will be (I'm hoping to eventually give every enemy its own unique replacement) behave dramatically differently, and I think it's very much necessary that the player should be informed from the get-go that these enemies aren't the traditional Doom enemies. If they hear different sounds, they'll instinctively know right away that there have been changes and these enemies will not be the same.

Jaxxoon R wrote:I also didn't like the feel of the weapons, they just didn't feel... right. [...] Guns are worthless when everything blends.

Can you elaborate on this, please? I don't think I can do much when the criticism is that it doesn't "feel right", since everyone has a different feel for things.
I would emphatically disagree with the guns being worthless, though. I mean, the advantages are obvious from the get go. Guns are long-ranged. The sword isn't. Your sword is your main weapon, but the guns are back-ups to use at a safe distance when high-tier enemies are being nasty. Taking on the Emperor with only the sword is definitely a feat I would like to see, haha.

Jaxxoon R wrote:I dunno, I guess it's just not my thing.

Well, either way, thank you very much for giving it a shot, even if it wasn't to your taste. I hope you're willing to give it another run in the future and give it a second chance or two. :D
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.82 OSHITOSH

Postby mumblemumble » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:51 pm

Is it just me, or did the demonsteele options in the options menu vanish with the 82 update? kind of a shame, I wanted to try valiant with doom health, but I can't (not easily anyway). Also, sword slashes right up against a wall leave no marks...Ill keep looking around for any other issues too.

EDIT: Actually not using gzdoom, using zandronum 2.0. There is no submenu in option. I switched to zandronum since air control is invaluable to dodging.
Last edited by mumblemumble on Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.82 OSHITOSH

Postby TerminusEst13 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:27 pm

That's strange. I just checked in GZDoom and they're still there.

Image

Though I'm using GZDoom 1.9, the more recent builds don't run on this computer. If there's something in the more recent G/ZDoom builds that doesn't run them...then that's a problem.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.82 OSHITOSH

Postby Big C » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:42 pm

I'm using the April 3rd build, no menu problems here.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.82 OSHITOSH

Postby Cryomundus » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:56 pm

mumblemumble wrote:Is it just me, or did the demonsteele options in the options menu vanish with the 82 update? kind of a shame, I wanted to try valiant with doom health, but I can't (not easily anyway). Also, sword slashes right up against a wall leave no marks...Ill keep looking around for any other issues too.

EDIT: Actually not using gzdoom, using zandronum 2.0. There is no submenu in option. I switched to zandronum since air control is invaluable to dodging.


Just checked it out myself, Demonsteele options appear in GZdoom's 2.1 dev builds, but do NOT appear in Zandronum 2.0. They're completely absent.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.82 OSHITOSH

Postby TerminusEst13 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:59 pm

Oh, that's a simpler answer, then. Zandronum doesn't quite have Menudef yet--for now until it catches up, it's a ZDoom-only feature.

Sorry.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.82 OSHITOSH

Postby Cryomundus » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:09 pm

TerminusEst13 wrote:Oh, that's a simpler answer, then. Zandronum doesn't quite have Menudef yet--for now until it catches up, it's a ZDoom-only feature.

Sorry.


Are there cvars folks can toggle for Zand then? Since you've got superior air control with that source port, after all.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.82 OSHITOSH

Postby TerminusEst13 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:36 pm

Oh, plenty. It just has to be done manually, which is unfortunately a lot less ergonomic. I kinda like the finer control it gives you, though, but I'm still eager for if menudef ever gets in Zimbabwe.
In order to see all of the cvars available, please enter "cvarlist dst_*" in the console, and it'll reveal every dst_* cvar that affects the game, clientside and serverside.

The Doomhealth cvar, in particular, is dst_doomhealth, with 1 enabling it and 0 disabling it.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.82 OSHITOSH

Postby Big C » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:19 pm

Not to invalidate anyone who prefers the mod with the token-based health, but given that the mod takes cues from Devil May Cry, anyone else feel like the DooM health option makes more sense? The token-based health feels more like danmaku game mode, and most danmaku games I've played don't specifically encourage you to charge in towards enemies.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.82 OSHITOSH

Postby TerminusEst13 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:15 pm

Big C wrote:but given that the mod takes cues from Devil May Cry

You guys keep saying this. :p

Also Radiant Silvergun had the best melee weapon. Cybattler was really good, too!
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.82 OSHITOSH

Postby Big C » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:00 pm

TerminusEst13 wrote:
Big C wrote:but given that the mod takes cues from Devil May Cry

You guys keep saying this. :p

Also Radiant Silvergun had the best melee weapon. Cybattler was really good, too!


Should we be saying something else? :S

It puts me in a mindset I normally reserve for Platinum Games titles. :S Except here the guns are more of a mainstay than I think they were in, say, Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, where they were mainly there for expediting killing things like the Gecko mecha and helicopter UAVs. Here the guns are useful but still not as potent as skillful use of the sword.

Point is that they play a lot like Platinum titles to me and those had a traditional lifebar rather than an X-strikes-and-you're-out system.

Also when I think shmups I still tend to think of projectile weapons as the rule rather than the exception---some of the weapon choices from R-Type Final come to mind.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.82 OSHITOSH

Postby fukenciojones » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:04 pm

Yo do you plan to add a parry system ? something like in Metal Gear Rising
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.82 OSHITOSH

Postby Big C » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:14 pm

fukenciojones wrote:Yo do you plan to add a parry system ? something like in Metal Gear Rising


The scabbard's altfire already more or less serves that purpose. The melee system isn't much more complicated than "walk up to it and slice the demon to bits", so all the parry does is swat projectiles back at the offending enemy.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.82 OSHITOSH

Postby Carbine Dioxide » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:23 pm

A parry for melee enemies would be nice. I can never dodge a steele beast's attack in time, nor swat it with Kharon.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.82 OSHITOSH

Postby Big C » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:45 pm

Oh right, forgot about those guys. Fuck 'em.
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