ZDoom

The brutal truth is that, no matter what blade you wield, a soul can't be cut.

The specials not absorbing souls is a balance issue. Why give souls when special is supposed to use it? If it was like this it could be outright spamable if you gain more souls with it than you use, or you would have its cost rediculous high to prevent its spam that it would be less viable anyway. Sure it ruins "realism" about a game where you reap souls playing as a Korean farm girl fighting demons with a sword and grenade launcher, who recovers from injuries with apples(bwahahahahahahahfrhdjfhrbfusnfldhzh) but adding in soul reaping from specials adds pretty much no game play difference, but makes SEVERAL new headaches.

Tl;dr: it doesn't gain souls because it uses souls in the first place, no point, all it would do is needlessly complicate things . Lets say the souls instead are used up to assist in the destruction rather than they are destroyed if that makes you guys happy. (not meaning to mess with lore TerminusEst13 just this discussion is so silly it hurts)

Anyway i was playing on the new server and i want to make a few observations while im posting anyway : with the new spammier enemies, taking to the skies is now essential. With that said, for next version could we refine aerial combat? I know the hovering while slashing had issues but could this be resolved in anyway? Perhaps it only boosting if jump key is depressed? Maybe a 4th sword special you do from the air, falling down like a sword tipped missle?(perhaps even summoning countless undead hands with swords doing constant aoe damage along the ground after you impact the ground ). spots with many barons or mancubi it gets absolutely ridiculous and if you don't rocket jump its literally impossible to avoid getting absolutely destroyed. The only way i beat it in coop was picking them off while the hoard of them were attacking a team mate on the other side... Im getting better dealing with it, but it seems like if you face multiple barons / mancubi with no ammo or souls its pretty much done.

EDIT : ok, I guess I am a bit of a wuss cause im learning i suck at juggling weapons / blocking.... One thing however, the cinematic deaths with the sheath, there should be a way to force them to go faster besides sheathing, having a hoard of imps you special into and then trying to hit the ones you miss leads to getting hit, since the live imps are camouflaged by all the "dead" imps. Rather annoying cause you will hack aimlessly trying to find the live one. It sounds dumb, but with the speed of the gameplay, it REALLY is hard to tell which imps are alive or not. Could you make it so continuing to attack forces the death, or that maybe the "dead" monsters are a bit more identifiable some way? Its a cool effect, but not really worth this confusion, it actually forces me to switch to guns in combat just to special, since I cannot stand struggling to identify targets... Something really should be done to make this less confusing..

Yeah, some sort of Jetpack would be cool (though it's hard to incorporate both sword play and aerial play since demons aside from the flyers don't tend to move up).

DoomKrakken: Yeah, if specials gave you souls it would completely utterly wreck balance straight to hell, then wreck the balance in hell too. I mean, as fun as it would be getting souls from special, basically slaughter maps would turn into "Alright, special-special-special-special-special-special-special-special-special-special there we go everything's dead", which would make for rather poor balance.

Untitled wrote:Yeah, some sort of Jetpack would be cool (though it's hard to incorporate both sword play and aerial play since demons aside from the flyers don't tend to move up).

talking about hovering ability, why not adding her an angel wings?

Untitled wrote:Yeah, if specials gave you souls it would completely utterly wreck balance straight to hell, then wreck the balance in hell too. I mean, as fun as it would be getting souls from special, basically slaughter maps would turn into "Alright, special-special-special-special-special-special-special-special-special-special there we go everything's dead", which would make for rather poor balance.

Well, you know what they say... the bigger they are, the harder they fall.

torridGristle wrote:The brutal truth is that, no matter what blade you wield, a soul can't be cut.

YUS.

Actually i never meant straight up flight, just some ways how mid air attacks could be different. Like rocket jumping and doing a strong attack midair. Maybe a special sword attack for aiming down while falling to do stacked damage and guaranteed stun, while also bouncing you ala mario(brutal doom march test has this with a stomp move(without the mario bounce) , and it can only be used straight down) or a falling special like i mentioned before which consumes souls, but summons undead hands from the ground. Alternatively if hovering while slashing ever works, would be badass as fuck if you could rocket jump, pull a guy up to you, hack him to bits then dash away as shredded baron beef rains on his buddies. I don't know bout you guys but i think temporarily summoning an army of zombie hands sounds pretty fucking metal

i think better air control would be nice to have. i find myself having trouble getting up on certain platforms to attack enemies since i can't steer my jumping direction that well, and the only way to get on the platform is to dash, which sends me away from the platform i want to get up on. there's of course shotgun and rocket-jumping, but i find them also unpredictable to use.

At least one bug I see so far is that the option to have gun kills produce souls doesn't work. It only rarely works with the grenade launcher. Latest GZDoom build and all that jazz.

mumblemumble wrote:Also, any plan to change the threads thumbnail? Flaming skull feels a bit placeholder ish

Sure, if I can figure out how to tweak the thumbnail. Even then, it'll probably stay something cheesy.

Viscra Maelstrom wrote:i just noticed that if you aim the Frosthammer up, and you have a Sentinel, the Frosthammer actually hits the Sentinel. maybe the Frosthammer's beams should pass through Sentinels? also, the boots of protection has a typo, but given the scope of the mod, i'm gonna assume that it's intentional.

Carbine Dioxide wrote:I noticed the same thing, only with the Omen.

Oops. Good catches, thank you.

Inglorious wrote:Just discovered this. Amazing mod. What map pack goes best with it?

Thank you very much! Map sets I tend to suggest are: Scythe 2, New Gothic Movement, Dissolution, Brotherhood of Ruin, and the Eye.

Carbine Dioxide wrote:Could there be an option to change back the Cyber Demon?

Er. Probably not.

Inglorious wrote:One suggestion: just change it to holding down the primary fire lets you sword slash infinitely. Either that or up the damage you deal with the sword because mashing for that long really hurts my wrist.

Viscra Maelstrom wrote:you could have an option like Xaser's Psychic mod, and have the sword-slash be toggable for either manual slashing (have to press fire to attack repeatedly, but has better DPS) or automatic (can hold down to slash but has lower DPS.) however, that would clash with having to hold down the attack button to perform special attacks.

Once 2.0 of Zandronum comes out (welp it's out!) I'll be doing like Xaser did and have a casual fully automatic attack mode for players that don't want to tap so much.
It won't be so fast as the default firing modes for obvious reasons, but in case you have an objection to clicking to attack, the option will be there.

More damage for the sword will absolutely not be happening, sorry. In terms of pure DPS, it already annihilates every other single weapon available. With each attack of the blade doing 30 damage and every slash firing two attacks, that's 60 damage in barely six tics, ramping up dramatically in terms of higher ranks. Even MORE damage would just be...staggeringly broken, with how powerful it is already.

mumblemumble wrote:With that said, for next version could we refine aerial combat? I know the hovering while slashing had issues but could this be resolved in anyway? Perhaps it only boosting if jump key is depressed? Maybe a 4th sword special you do from the air, falling down like a sword tipped missle?(perhaps even summoning countless undead hands with swords doing constant aoe damage along the ground after you impact the ground ).

Viscra Maelstrom wrote:i think better air control would be nice to have. i find myself having trouble getting up on certain platforms to attack enemies since i can't steer my jumping direction that well, and the only way to get on the platform is to dash, which sends me away from the platform i want to get up on. there's of course shotgun and rocket-jumping, but i find them also unpredictable to use.

Being able to use Zandronum's air control in ZDoom would certainly be incredibly useful, since a lot of DemonSteele's defense comes from mobility, and the neutered aerial mobility ZDoom has really hurts things. With the next release the release after this 2.0 build, I'll look into this and see how possible it is.
While the hovering-while-slashing is probably not going to be possible as long as netplay is a thing, aerial/landing sword specials might be incredibly interesting to do. Maybe along with double-tapping a direction, you can double-tap jump or crouch to perform a vertical move?

Silentdarkness12 wrote:At least one bug I see so far is that the option to have gun kills produce souls doesn't work. It only rarely works with the grenade launcher. Latest GZDoom build and all that jazz.

Just checked, it does work. I'm assuming you're shooting at mooks--gun souls gives half the amount of souls, rounded down, so mooks that only give one soul don't give any souls when killed with guns. Try Hell Nobles or Pinkies.



EDIT: OH HEY LOOKS LIKE ZANDRONUM 2.0 IS OUT AND SOME THINGS NEED CHANGING
GUESS I BETTER CHANGE 'EM, EXPECT A 0.81 MAINTENANCE BUILD SOON

Ok, so I applied the new code for the Exodus flame cross as instructed, and it works perfectly! Save for one thing...

The bottom of the cross clips through the floor, if fired normally. Of course, if you fire it aiming upward at a wall, you can see the whole thing, but aiming straight forward will have the bottom end dip through the floor. How do I fix this?

No, unfortunately, that problem exists with the original crucifix as well. Just gotta aim higher.

ANYWAY

EDIT: NOPE STUFF'S BROKEN ONE SECOND

OKAY GUYS SO THIS POST MIGHT NOT BE UP FOR VERY LONG! I HACKED TREMONUS EST 13'S GUIT HUB TO GET THIS SUPER SECRET DEMONSTEELE ADDON!
IT SEEMS HE'S FINALLY CAVED IN AND MADE A CALEB CLASS FOR ONE OF HIS MODS!

GET IT WHILE YOU CAN!!!1!!!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/141 ... 20v1.6.pk3

Not so Obscure, what a Perfect Effort!

thanks for your great effort, shivers!

Shivers... whuddafoxdidyagimme?

TerminusEst13 wrote:Being able to use Zandronum's air control in ZDoom would certainly be incredibly useful, since a lot of DemonSteele's defense comes from mobility, and the neutered aerial mobility ZDoom has really hurts things.

didn't Metroid: Dreadnought have some manner of air-control when jumping? i certainly remember having an easy time steering my jumps around when playing it, and that was on GZDoom. though that might have more to do with the increased average jumping height than it being about air-control.