[Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.9 desu~

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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.8 O SHIT O

Postby Funky Gnoll » Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:54 am

Use your special attacks, or the guns.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.8 O SHIT O

Postby Princess Viscra Maelstrom » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:52 am

i have to agree that the blackened are a pain in the ass, but guns are really good against them. the Sabbath in particular can plow through them. special attacks too, if you can hit them.

i have more problem with the Cyberdemon replacement. he's an asshole. i guess i have to practice more against them.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.8 O SHIT O

Postby TerminusEst13 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:25 am

hitmanx wrote:Now this is personal opinion of course but I'm not a big fan of this patch. I think it kind of ruins the fun. I no longer feel like I have any chance of dodging projectiles that doesn't come from pure luck or by spamming my blade. Instead if feels like being hit is inevitable and you just do as much as you can while in the invincibility state. Like in its current form the whole idea of dodging projectiles seems like an after thought? [...] I've always found that was one of the most fun aspects of classic doom, dodging projectiles, it wasn't exactly because they were fast but because there was a lot of them, quickly having to find a path between them was exciting. This feels too much to me.

Don't worry, dodging projectiles is still the main focus behind this. The main reason for the difficulty increase was that now there are more methods with which to dodge or nullify projectiles, and the enemies didn't accommodate for them since the first update. Previously there was only the dodge and jumping/crouching (which wasn't even applicable if the player didn't want to play with jumping/crouching)--but now there's also the sheathe's wall of protection, the Exodus reflecting shots away (a glitch now made legit), and the back special blocking projectiles. Even without those, though, I think constant use of the dodge and jump can still give more than enough protection to take care of pretty much all the not-high-tier encounters.

I hope you're willing to give it another attempt. If it's still too much for you...well, thank you for giving it a fair shot. :D

Princess Viscra Maelstrom wrote:i have more problem with the Cyberdemon replacement. he's an asshole. i guess i have to practice more against them.

To be honest, like the Emperor, I'm still trying to feel out the DevilDriver a bit. At the moment there's no real set strategy against them, and I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing--on the plus side, being boss monsters mean they shouldn't be as w+m1 as all the other enemies (and in fact that's exactly what the Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind were designed to stop players from doing), but on the downside, there's a chance a player may be under-equipped to properly deal with him.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.8 O SHIT O

Postby mumblemumble » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:01 pm

Excuse me term but, besides back special blocking shots, weren't all of those in v75? Dashing, exodus, sheath use, ect? Sure they may have been refined some (like the sheath) but they aren't new to v8 iirc. Every one of them (besides back special) was already existent, weren't they? So why say v8 has more ways to dodge? This seems odd, you base the difficulty jump due to more evasive tactics but almost everything listed was in v75 iirc, and it makes me slightly worried you, (or myself?) are mistaken. Yeah the sheath had wind up before, yeah exodus was "listed" as a glitch before, but neither are new to v8

As for the blackened, sabbath or exudus spam works, along with testament or nearly and gun special. I found smg special particularly effective up close since its instant and it often cant teleport away from so many bullets. It also shreds the ghosts in the process. If you have no souls or ammo, omen also works if you are extremely careful.
Last edited by mumblemumble on Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.8 O SHIT O

Postby TerminusEst13 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:18 pm

Sorry, I don't think I explained properly.
It's not that 0.8 has more ways to dodge, it's that the enemy attacks were never adjusted to accommodate the new ways to dodge.

FOR EXAMPLE, let's take the humble Shotgun guy. Now, his attack takes 60 tics to execute--a little under two seconds to fire four shots. In initial builds, he took 70 tics to fire three shots.
In initial builds, the only way to stop this was to dodge through, and it was adjusted appropriately--the shots were slow, traveled slow, and only came in bursts of three.
Now, though, the shotgun guy is tweaked so that all the methods of dodging can be used against his attack. His shots travel in tighter clusters, which are easier for the sheathe to whack in one swipe. They come out faster, which are easier for the Exodus to deflect and for the back special to block.

And then there's one more added, just to punish you if you don't move fast enough and only deflect three.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.8 O SHIT O

Postby mumblemumble » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:48 pm

Eh i still say alternative attacks to flat out spam would be more enjoyable. Besides revenants and blackened, and both bosses, attacks boil down to simply "spew boolets". I would play perhaps some metal slug for inspiration on the matter, many enemies in it having non standard attacks. A few i can think of are bullets which leave damaging trails, bullets which explode into other bullets on hitting walls (like ice gollem from hexen but more forgiving) occasional bullets which can't be blocked, bullets which are instead mines you can trip on, shots which spiral making them hard to dodge or hit ( or any irregular patterns), gravity effected bullets, bullets which inflict the slowdown status ailment, bullets which briefly disable attacks, ect. I feel like variance in actual attack mechanics are infinitely superior to just an endless spam of straight moving shots (and would be funner /more difficult to track all of these) , and if you look at most bullet hell games, you will notice these ideas are almost always used occasionally at least. But also, sheath doesn't seem to fire rapidly enough to block the shotgun guy, and like the chaingun dude, you can't run at them while hacking down shots because the fire rate is matched with your swing rate, so if you run towards them, the rate of fire is effectively higher since they hit you faster. Idk but i would experiment with attacks other than spam, because spam does feel a bit cheap, and variations in attacks are always fun.

But i suppose if v75 was "easy mode" then maybe i just need to improve. I just hope monsters don't get more hp / Dodge ability due to the new specials. Cause honestly specials were needed, even with fiercer monsters i cannot go back from having such a huge variety of attacks. Short of the frost hammer special, theres not one special I've not needed (speaking of which, frost hammer seems to simply not compare to the legion in almost all aspects =<)
Spoiler:


Also, any plan to change the threads thumbnail? Flaming skull feels a bit placeholder ish
Last edited by mumblemumble on Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.8 O SHIT O

Postby Princess Viscra Maelstrom » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:46 pm

i just noticed that if you aim the Frosthammer up, and you have a Sentinel, the Frosthammer actually hits the Sentinel. maybe the Frosthammer's beams should pass through Sentinels?

also, the boots of protection has a typo, but given the scope of the mod, i'm gonna assume that it's intentional. :p
Last edited by Princess Viscra Maelstrom on Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.8 O SHIT O

Postby Carbine Dioxide » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:49 pm

I noticed the same thing, only with the Omen.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.8 O SHIT O

Postby Ma77 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:55 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6-ZBPBqeCc
Played this with DSdoom3 and it was kek worthy
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.8 O SHIT O

Postby Inglorious » Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:36 pm

Just discovered this. Amazing mod. What map pack goes best with it?

One suggestion: just change it to holding down the primary fire lets you sword slash infinitely. Either that or up the damage you deal with the sword because mashing for that long really hurts my wrist.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.8 O SHIT O

Postby Carbine Dioxide » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:06 pm

Could there be an option to change back the Cyber Demon?
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.8 O SHIT O

Postby DoomKrakken » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:33 pm

Inglorious wrote:Just discovered this. Amazing mod. What map pack goes best with it?


Any map pack that has lots of monsters. Maybe slaughtermaps.

Inglorious wrote:One suggestion: just change it to holding down the primary fire lets you sword slash infinitely. Either that or up the damage you deal with the sword because mashing for that long really hurts my wrist.


While it doesn't hurt my wrist, I do agree with this. Doing this can open up so many possibilities.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.8 O SHIT O

Postby Princess Viscra Maelstrom » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:05 pm

you could have an option like Xaser's Psychic mod, and have the sword-slash be toggable for either manual slashing (have to press fire to attack repeatedly, but has better DPS) or automatic (can hold down to slash but has lower DPS.) however, that would clash with having to hold down the attack button to perform special attacks.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.8 O SHIT O

Postby DoomKrakken » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:49 pm

True that...
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.8 O SHIT O

Postby DoomKrakken » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:02 pm

twinkieman93 wrote:Preeeetty sure you don't get souls for special attack kills. Mostly because that would be a little bit silly when you used souls to execute the attack to begin with.


I don't see what's silly about that. Anything you kill should have that energy drained to the sword. Just because you used a special doesn't mean that the result shouldn't fill up the bar. If this isn't what happens, it should change...

twinkieman93 wrote:In-universe I would say that you hit them so hard with Kharon that their souls were completely destroyed, 'cause that's ultra-metal and this is basically Metalworld Hae-Lin lives in.


What happened to the indestructibility of the soul?
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