[Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.9 desu~

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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.74 NEAT STU

Postby TerminusEst13 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:12 pm

mumblemumble wrote:Hate to break it to you but you are wrong about the shotgun and grenade launcher jump heights. I don't know about the number you put, but the EFFECT still is that the shotgun makes you rocket jump higher. I JUST tested this with the CURRENT pk3 on github, I can go maybe 30% higher with the shotgun. Again its not a huge deal, but its there. I recommend you test it out on a map with high ceilings like map15 of doom 2 and see for yourself.

Are you absolutely sure about that? I just jumped to maptest in order to test it.
I picked up a rage rune (for faster reload times) and did a shotgun jump up against a wall, then shot the wall to mark my position. Twice, actually.

Image

Then I did a rocketjump up against the same wall.

Image

As you can see, we're going way above the shotgun jump heights.

If it's completely different for you, then that is most definitely the realm of a glitch. I'm not entirely sure what's happening, but I'll see if I can see what would cause this to change.

Also frosthammer special seems nice but has a few problems. Mainly, they string detonate each other which has 2 effects : one, when they all go off at once, my ears start bleeding, and 2, the over-all power is kind of limited since if they all go to one zombie, the mancubus behind it shrugs and then incinerates hae lin. I don't know if this is intentional (since my evil idea of stacking them in the start of map 07 doom 2 completely failed) but its worth bringing up. Especially since the stacked explosion sound pretty much breaks the audio. Other than that its cool, and still useful, but if the chain explosion could be disabled it would be really nice. (then I could beat dead simple with only a few seconds after lowering the gate hehe)

Sure, I can do this. In fact, I'll do this right now!
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.74 NEAT STU

Postby mumblemumble » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:11 am

All i can imagine is im using gzdoom (a build from the past few months i got for hideous destructor) and i know you test with zandronum. Still for me its the exact opposite. Good news is even if you can't track it, woopdeedoo, its a higher than intended jump. Super harmless glitch

Glad to see you fixed the frost hammer. Another thing i noticed which is funny is they are surprisingly stupid navigation wise. First because on map 02 of doom 2 if you fire from the courtyard with the tourches and chain gunners, they will loop on the teleporter trying to get the right chaingunner. Now this is funny as shit but i understand fixing it isn't easy (or even possible) but then on map 03, i noticed they cannot go through Windows of the zombie bunkers ... Is this just because an invisible wall or what? Would be nice if they at least changed elevation since they grind on the wall under the window, so when they do pop its harmless. Also minor gripe but it seems like i cannot fire it up or down, does it have the bfg aim feature on it or am I tripping?

Oh also wizards need a custom punch death. Maybe punched into robe and magical spark confetti?

EDIT: Frosthammer drones can telefrag player..(!!!!!!)can this PLEASE get fixed? now this is a big issue.. Kind of makes me paranoid using them at ALL near a teleporter.

EDIT 2: imo the double tap special gap needs to be slightly smaller. most people fast enough to play this are fast enough to tap it at least twice as fast as the biggest possible gap, and would help alleviate accidental special usage. (especially when trying to aim a hookshot)

Edit3: barons occasionally spas the fuck out with the testament. I think this is because the Dodge action triggers once for each pellet so they fucking fling away at an insane speed from a 10 pellet spread.
Last edited by mumblemumble on Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:03 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.74 NEAT STU

Postby Captain J » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:01 am

TerminusEst13 wrote:As for what the character would be named...well...my knee-jerk reaction would be Yoshiko, but I'll leave the final details up to you. :p
ooh, a japanese. finally some fitting character to this mod. anyway dual-wielded weapons, eh? then obviously katanas would be good. but if you want to add some tiny realism to that character, i'd recommend short katanas such as tanto or kodachi.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.74 NEAT STU

Postby TerminusEst13 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:56 pm

mumblemumble wrote:All i can imagine is im using gzdoom (a build from the past few months i got for hideous destructor) and i know you test with zandronum. Still for me its the exact opposite. Good news is even if you can't track it, woopdeedoo, its a higher than intended jump. Super harmless glitch

Just checked, and yeah, it is the difference between GZDoom and Zandronum. I have no clue what would be causing it, but for some reason GZDoom launches you twice as high with a shotgun jump, while Zandronum launches you normally?!
Absolutely crazy. This is definitely harmless, but it's still something I'd like to figure out, if only for future reference.

mumblemumble wrote:Glad to see you fixed the frost hammer. Another thing i noticed which is funny is they are surprisingly stupid navigation wise. First because on map 02 of doom 2 if you fire from the courtyard with the tourches and chain gunners, they will loop on the teleporter trying to get the right chaingunner. Now this is funny as shit but i understand fixing it isn't easy (or even possible) but then on map 03, i noticed they cannot go through Windows of the zombie bunkers ... Is this just because an invisible wall or what? Would be nice if they at least changed elevation since they grind on the wall under the window, so when they do pop its harmless. Also minor gripe but it seems like i cannot fire it up or down, does it have the bfg aim feature on it or am I tripping?
EDIT: Frosthammer drones can telefrag player..(!!!!!!)can this PLEASE get fixed? now this is a big issue.. Kind of makes me paranoid using them at ALL near a teleporter.

The special puffs at the moment are considered (friendly) monsters, so they have the same navigational behavior and movement "intelligence" of monsters. That being said, I just disabled teleporting, so they shouldn't telefrag the player anymore. Likewise, I gave them +DROPOFF so they shouldn't be hindered by some of the same borders as before--I'm not quite sure what the limitations of it are, but it should help them get around a little bit more.

As for firing up and down, that's an inherent problem with A_SpawnItemEx. I'm not entirely sure how I can work around it, sans moving the function to A_FireCustomMissile (which I'll lose out on SXF_SetMaster as well as setting the initial velocity)--this'll take some thought.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.74 NEAT STU

Postby mumblemumble » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:19 pm

I see. If you remove teleporting entirely, could you make the first entity, the cloud which bursts into the sentient clouds still teleport-able? i find it INCREDIBLY useful to fire a few through a particularly nasty teleport to get a bit of breathing room. And I think the seeker clouds, and the cloud that is fired are 2 entities right? I only got telefragged when I filled a whole room in the start of map30, went out to fight the boss thinking i would have an army of clouds (which I did) but the army stampeded over me telefragging me into oblivion... but i still REALLY want the ability to fire a few through a teleport (fire the first "dumb" projectile, which splits into seakers). I understand this might still be exploitable (griefing) but since its one rare weapons special, I doubt its that big of a problem.

Glad the jump issue got fixed though with rocket jumping. or at least identified.

And can you look into the timing of the special double tap prompt? I know you want it accessible, but it really is a pretty wide time gap. Seems almost the same amount of time between pistol shots in vanilla doom, which is a BIT fast. even shaving a little off would help these accidental specials.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.74 NEAT STU

Postby Infirnex » Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:56 pm

TerminusEst13 wrote:
mumblemumble wrote:All i can imagine is im using gzdoom (a build from the past few months i got for hideous destructor) and i know you test with zandronum. Still for me its the exact opposite. Good news is even if you can't track it, woopdeedoo, its a higher than intended jump. Super harmless glitch

Just checked, and yeah, it is the difference between GZDoom and Zandronum. I have no clue what would be causing it, but for some reason GZDoom launches you twice as high with a shotgun jump, while Zandronum launches you normally?!
Absolutely crazy. This is definitely harmless, but it's still something I'd like to figure out, if only for future reference.


This probably has something to do with Zandronum's different air physics, versus (G)ZDoom. Only way I can see that happening.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.74 NEAT STU

Postby Rowsol » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:33 pm

Ok, guess I should do my part and provide some feedback on the mod.

Negatives:
I don't like +noautofire but I understand why you chose to go that route. I decided to enable it and bound zoom and reload to the special moves.
I feel the jumping would be greatly enhanced if you used the code from guncaster. Being able to change direction in the air provides a ton of freedom. As it stands now, I hate the double jump because it's hit or miss for me, sometimes it just doesn't work. And then there's the problem with "physics" where it's hard to jump on a ledge in front of you without forward momentum.
The BFG10k is a selectable weapon after using IDFA.
The sound when kicking a head is loud, and annoying. If it didn't happen so often it would be funny.
I find the pain elemental replacement to be extremely annoying. An effective monster for sure, but what a pain in the ass he is.
I feel the no recoil option should also remove A_recoil.
Maybe I didn't look hard enough, but I didn't see any documentation on the items in this mod. I've played it for quite a few hours and I'm still not sure what some things do.
The usefail sounds are a little ridiculous.
I'm really unsure of what the advantage of the alt fire on Kharon is.
The shotgun could really use more sprites. Seems as choppy as the SSG from Doom.
The cyberdemon is begging for a replacement.

Positives:
I have to praise the animation when enabling the Iron Maiden, looks awesome.
I love the speeches she gives when entering a level.
There are obviously more but it's easy to remember faults when looking through the wad, not the positives.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.74 NEAT STU

Postby twinkieman93 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:45 pm

While I can't answer most of those comments due to them being objective opinions/bug reports for the most part, I can answer these.

The Blackened is a pain in the ass, yes, but this mod is going to feature lots of old-school retro NES sensibilities. As Term put it on the most recent devstream, the mod is going to "wrench your balls and make you sing soprano for the next twelve hours". Also he only made it worse when people said it was annoying so please stop complaining. ;_;

The items are undocumented but there's only two really unique ones off the top of my head. The Sentinel sits on your head and fires at enemies. It doesn't hurt much but it does stunlock things fairly nicely. The Blind Guardian is a buttshield. It is a shield for your butt, you see. Incoming attacks from the rear are stopped by the shield, at the expense of its durability. The other "new" items are just reskins of vanilla items so there's not really anything to document.

The usefail sounds, especially the "WHOOPS", are goofy on purpose. If you don't understand why, go watch Term's co-op playthrough of a little... uhm... gem...? by the name of Swan Fox.

The Kharon's sheathe has a much longer range and can swat multiple projectiles out of the air at once with ease. It's more of a defensive option than an actual attack(although note that it kills silently unlike Kharon, so for maps that require you to not fire a shot like this one map in D2Reloaded it's good to know this.)

Annnnd finally the Cyberdemon DOES have a replacement. He's featured at the end of the most recent trailer(and if you check out the mod's github he is in the mod already, and will be in the next official release).
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.74 NEAT STU

Postby Carbine Dioxide » Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:31 pm

I am so confused on how to play the GITHUB version, can anyone explain?
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.74 NEAT STU

Postby twinkieman93 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:23 pm

Carbine Dioxide wrote:I am so confused on how to play the GITHUB version, can anyone explain?

I got you; hit up the github and click the big button on the main screen labeled "Download ZIP". Extract it wherever you want. In that directory is a .bat file called zip.bat. Run it, and just hit enter. It will compile the PK3 and you'll be good to go.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.74 NEAT STU

Postby HexaDoken » Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:12 am

I've never fought the Blackened(pain elemental replacement) properly.

Not even once.

Seriously, not even once.

Why?

Because whenever I see him, I oneshot him with Draw the Line(forward special).

This, actually, is probably not a good thing. If everybody just oneshots your monster immediately, something is probably wrong with it.

But for everyone shouting that he is overpowered - he isn't. They are rare enough so as to make spending soul on each and every one of them feasible, and squishy enough to actually die when you do so.

Sometimes, you don't even need to spend soul - sometimes, they happen to be in melee range, and in that range, a fully charged melee Omen whack will do wonders.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.74 NEAT STU

Postby Slax » Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:07 am

How about adding some optional wall jumping/dashing to make things even more chaotic?
I remember some fairly old mod (parkour something something?) doing something like that but no one ran with it. Uh, no pun intended.
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.74 NEAT STU

Postby TerminusEst13 » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:42 am

mumblemumble wrote:I understand this might still be exploitable (griefing) but since its one rare weapons special, I doubt its that big of a problem.
And can you look into the timing of the special double tap prompt? I know you want it accessible, but it really is a pretty wide time gap. Seems almost the same amount of time between pistol shots in vanilla doom, which is a BIT fast. even shaving a little off would help these accidental specials.

If it can be exploited for griefing, people will exploit it. Already on a few test servers, I have people just spamming the special to try and lag out people. Adding the ability to kill other players would just be icing on the metaphorical cake. Except the cake is bad. Or something. It's an evil cake. :p
And sure, I'll look into it.

Rowsol wrote:Ok, guess I should do my part and provide some feedback on the mod.
I don't like +noautofire but I understand why you chose to go that route. I decided to enable it and bound zoom and reload to the special moves.
I feel the jumping would be greatly enhanced if you used the code from guncaster. Being able to change direction in the air provides a ton of freedom. As it stands now, I hate the double jump because it's hit or miss for me, sometimes it just doesn't work. And then there's the problem with "physics" where it's hard to jump on a ledge in front of you without forward momentum.
The BFG10k is a selectable weapon after using IDFA.
The sound when kicking a head is loud, and annoying. If it didn't happen so often it would be funny.
I find the pain elemental replacement to be extremely annoying. An effective monster for sure, but what a pain in the ass he is.
I feel the no recoil option should also remove A_recoil.
Maybe I didn't look hard enough, but I didn't see any documentation on the items in this mod. I've played it for quite a few hours and I'm still not sure what some things do.
The usefail sounds are a little ridiculous.
I'm really unsure of what the advantage of the alt fire on Kharon is.
The shotgun could really use more sprites. Seems as choppy as the SSG from Doom.
The cyberdemon is begging for a replacement.

Thank you for the input!

- Come the release of Zandro 2.0, I'll be able to add a casual auto-fire setting for guns, and probably the sword. Technically it's possible now, but the advent of named states for A_Refire will make it so much easier it's not even funny.
- This is actually an engine difference between ZDoom and Zandronum, where you're able to adjust your velocity and position mid-air in Zandronum but in ZDoom you're married to the direction you're going in as soon as your feet leave the ground. After this next release, though, if it's not terribly ACS-intensive, I'll give the Guncaster jumping a look for if you're running in ZDoom--I might be able to reverse engineer it.
- Fixed, thank you.
- Okay, I'll tone down the volume a bit.
- Definitely. :D
- Will do, thank you.
- I plan on doing a retro-style game manual for this mod, hopefully in line with this next release. What items are you unsure about?
- Intentionally so. Love the WHOOPS. Stroke the WHOOPS.
- The sheathe was mainly added due to people on 2ch wanting the ability to do sword-only runs, but there's still a few tweaks and benefits to it. It blocks projectiles much better than the sword, each hit guarantees a temporary stun on enemies, drawing times on the sword are removed (ironic considering its the only weapon that explicitly sheathes the sword) so attacks start up three tics faster, etc. It's a nice little thing if you want to play more defensively, be stylish, or an honorable warrior, but if you want to ignore it you won't be missing anything vital.
- Really? Well, you're not entirely inaccurate--the SSG has about seven-ish unique sprites, while the Testament has 11. While I doubt I'll be able to wring any more unique sprites from the Marathon 2 shotgun, Mike12's cooking up a few tweaks to its design. After this next release, I'll see if he's willing to do any in-between frames.
- The Cyberdemon is getting a replacement come the next build! I can guarantee you, he's going to be interesting to fight.

HexaDoken wrote:This, actually, is probably not a good thing. If everybody just oneshots your monster immediately, something is probably wrong with it.

One purpose of a Pain Elemental is to drain your ammo, especially of your higher-tier weapons, by being both resilient and spamming a bunch of little ammo sponges, and punishes you if you don't take care of it as quickly as possible. You can one-shot it with the BFG, but that doesn't make its purpose any less valid. This is exactly what the Blackened does, by being a priority target that drains you of your higher-tier attack equivalent (soul) or your ammo, moreso if you don't take care of it right away. You can't just W+M1 your way through the mod entirely.
Go ahead, one-shot it all you want. It's doing its job, in more than one way.

twinkieman93 wrote:Also he only made it worse when people said it was annoying so please stop complaining. ;_;

Next build gives it a melee attack (with 96 units of range) that blackens your screen, slows you down, and drains your soul. :D

Slax wrote:How about adding some optional wall jumping/dashing to make things even more chaotic?
I remember some fairly old mod (parkour something something?) doing something like that but no one ran with it. Uh, no pun intended.

Could be interesting. Tons of anime ninja jump around from building to building, wall to wall, back and forth. It was present in Dreadnought, but it was mostly ijon's code. After this next release, if I can figure out how to reverse-engineer it into something workable, I might do so.
Jump, wall-jump, doublejump, dash to another wall, and then wall-jump off that. Heh.






Oh, yeah! Random development screenshot.

Image
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.74 NEAT STU

Postby Slax » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:05 pm

Did someone say evil cake?
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Re: [Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.74 NEAT STU

Postby Captain J » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:22 pm

TerminusEst13 wrote:Oh, yeah! Random development screenshot.
Spoiler:
FINALLY, she's going to have her own sprite now! anyway is this made by 3d model?
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