Tranquility (On Hold, 2017-08-12)

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Re: [WIP] Shattered Tranquility - An "Authentic" Weapons Mod

Postby Caligari87 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:00 pm

No update, unfortunately, but I wanted to revisit something.
SidDoyle wrote:Check out my Drunk Doom jokewad. I used trig to make the player camera sway in a perfect circle, which means you keep your facing -- you just get really disoriented and can't hit the side of a barn. Perhaps you can find a way to use trigonometry to give your random sway bounds?
I need some help on this front. Right now I am using trig to determine which way the player's view moves (basically a little sweeping vector on the crosshair that says "move this angle .002 degrees" or whatever). Does anyone have any ideas for some kind of equation or method to keep the aim in the same average area while moving semi-randomly at least? Preferably without tracking the player's raw input to set bounds, that's just kinda messy...

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Re: [WIP] Shattered Tranquility - An "Authentic" Weapons Mod

Postby Josh771 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:39 pm

Well, I have a messy approach.

Produce your offsets with random() and assign them to a variable. Then, as you continue to offset the aim, keep track of the total offset that has taken place. When this exceeds some bound, you force the sway to correct itself. I know it's not exactly pseudo code, but it's an idea.

Otherwise, I'd say adjusting a constant offset value within bounds and applying it to a circular offset using trig might look alright. If you did it right, anyway; interpolate the values on the offset so you don't get jitters.

EDIT: And may I just say, if you do end up adding reloading, can we make it mag-based? Hehehe.
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Re: [WIP] Shattered Tranquility - An "Authentic" Weapons Mod

Postby Matt » Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:57 pm

Worst case scenario you could do an ENTER script that forcibly turns the player in a series of turns that eventually forms a figure 8, like "SetActorAngle(GetActorAngle()-1);SetActorPitch(GetActorPitch()-1);delay(1);..." etc.
That "1" where you'd put the real figure could also be multiplied by a variable that's updated depending on the player's movement, health, etc.
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Re: [WIP] Shattered Tranquility - An "Authentic" Weapons Mod

Postby Caligari87 » Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:42 pm

Made an update to the file in the OP

+ Completely reworked weapon sway to be more realistic, reduced overall sway amount. Not scaled to player speed yet.
+ Added different ammo types/amounts for the various weapons (no new graphics, just scaled CLIPs, unfortunately).
+ New ammo types replace Cells and Rockets for Carbine and Rifle, respectively
+ The Pistol and SMG both share 9mm ammo now.
+ Added realistic bullet speeds and bullet drop/tumbling per suggestions.
+ Rebalanced damage slightly, smaller/slower bullets only have up to 2x crit, instead of 3x
+ Reworked SSG to fit new weapons (not sure how satisfied I am with it yet).
+ Updated recoil slightly on some weapons
+ Added a "CrouchRecoil" state; all weapons can be stabilized by crouching, for more accurate fire.
+ Fixed the file name to "Tranquility.pk3"

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Re: [WIP] Shattered Tranquility - An "Authentic" Weapons Mod

Postby Josh771 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:25 pm

I know you or someone else on this thread mentioned tying damage to the actual velocity of the individual bullet (in addition to bullet weight) and I read something intriguing on the wiki that seemed relevant.
ZDoom Wiki wrote:ACS_ExecuteWithResult and user variables can be used as part of the damage expression; this allows for more sophisticated damage calculations to be performed.

It looks to be more than possible. Randomize the velocity per bullet, save that value in a user variable, and use ACS_ExecuteWithResult to get the final damage value. I'd try to randomize the velocity with A_SetUserVar and A_ScaleVelocity. For instance, if a bullet moves at 300 to 600 units per tic, I'd set the bullet's speed to 600 and set the scale user variable to frandom(0.5,1.0), to be used with A_ScaleVelocity. Then a quick ACS call passing in the bullet's weight and velocity should return the appropriate damage value, whatever that value happens to be. I guess the hard part will be getting the bullets to demonstrate a believable degree of lethality.
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Re: [WIP] Shattered Tranquility - An "Authentic" Weapons Mod

Postby Caligari87 » Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:47 pm

Okay, another update!

- Fixed a bug with the shotgun ammo
- Fixed some ammo types not being filled when cheating for weapons
- Tweaked and refactored idle weapon sway, this is NOT affected by speed, mostly aesthetic.
- Added an accuracy function that IS tied to player speed, causing shots while moving to be somewhat off-target
- Fancied up bullet puffs significantly
- Dropped player speed somewhat for "realism", but not by an extreme amount.
- Raised player viewheight

The main update here is the weapon sway and accuracy. The idle sway should be visually pleasing for most people, not too over-the-top, and makes landing longer shots (like across the courtyard windows in E1M1) more difficult. The other half is weapon accuracy while moving. Now, if you're walking or running, your shots will land off-target by some amount. Yes, it goes against my previously mentioned goal of "shots go where you put them", but it was honestly the best solution that doesn't cause motion sickness even to me (and I never get motion-sick). It's unobtrusive and mostly intuitive; you'll no longer be able to consistently single-shot enemies with the .300 Winchester rifle while circle-strafe-running unless you're right up in their faces.

On the subject of player height, I found that putting it up to 50 instead of 41 makes the player feel more comparable to the monsters, and lessens the speed-demon effect slightly. To that end, player speed was also lowered and tweaked until it felt "right" for a quick-moving trained soldier. Dodging projectiles is harder, but you'll just need to be more careful.

Download in OP updated!

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Re: [WIP] Tranquility - An "Authentic" Weapons Mod (2014-9-2

Postby Slax » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:06 pm

Neat.
Made me want to rip everything you've made here and build on it. :trippy:
Pretty much double the amount of guns and ammo (one caliber pickup for small ammo spawns, another for big ones), make you a lot faster in melee (so you can handle map obstacles which require speed) and just go crazy on tweaking and coming up with new arsenal ideas. Maybe add some rare weapon mod/technique as well. Mwehehehe...
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Re: [WIP] Tranquility - An "Authentic" Weapons Mod (2014-9-2

Postby Caligari87 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:27 pm

Hey thanks!

Any feedback on the weapon sway or accuracy? Not sure if people like it or if it needs further tweaking?.

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Re: [WIP] Tranquility - An "Authentic" Weapons Mod (2014-9-2

Postby Slax » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:44 pm

Barely noticed the sway after a little while. As for accuracy, that's up to you. Didn't have many problems running through TNT, blasting anything in sight.
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Re: [WIP] Tranquility - An "Authentic" Weapons Mod (2014-9-2

Postby Josh771 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:01 pm

The sway, while not particularly debilitating, feels exaggerated to me. It has admittedly been a while since I last fired a gun, but I keep a pretty tight grouping with a Colt .45 1911 just by letting the weapon fall back after each shot and pulling the trigger again. I certainly don't notice my arms drifting to and fro, just the subtle but constant application of fine muscle control keeping the arm relatively in-place.

Extending my arm in front of me holding something about as weighty as a pistol, I just don't see myself drifting off target by more than a degree. I dunno, I've always felt that many games that attempt to add realism end up making the player an incompetent gunslinger -- but it could be that I'm supposed to be simulating the fine corrections with my mouse instead of witnessing them on-screen.

My rant aside, whatever it's worth, I do have some questions about the future of the weapons here:
  1. Should we expect any form of aiming down sights?
  2. Will there be a reloading system put in place? If so, mag-based or round-based? (Please be mag-based! I might even help you script an inventory that keeps track of the mags with their separate bullet counts or something. But, eh, your mod, so do as you please. :D)

This is great stuff. It adds a little bit of "seasoning" to vanilla Doom without transforming it overmuch.
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Re: [WIP] Tranquility - An "Authentic" Weapons Mod (2014-9-2

Postby Caligari87 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:04 pm

I'd certainly like to implement both aim down sights and reloading. Mostly it's question of resources; I'm not skilled at spriting, so I've just made it work with the basics so far. If reload/aim frames are available, I can work with them. It'll just be some time since I'm so busy lately. Mag-based is definitely the way to go for realism mods, so if it reloading gets in at all you'll get that wish. On that front, what about the "shift down and move around with sounds"-style reloads? I can do that.

Thanks for the feedback on the sway. I think you're right that it's a bit exaggerated, so I'll work on tweaking that down a little, maybe tie it to the player's health so it's more jittery if you're hurt badly.

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Re: [WIP] Tranquility - An "Authentic" Weapons Mod (2014-9-2

Postby Caligari87 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:35 pm

Update!

  • Added built-in support for Nash'sQuakeTilt, Ral22's MouseTilt, and SidDoyle's RealAim from the linked thread.
  • Tweaked some movement speeds. Still not fully satisfied...
  • Added manual recocking to the Shotgun and .300 Rifle. Makes both a little harder to use on the move or rapidly, and you can drop eject unused ammo if not careful.
  • Tweaked shotgun sounds for new method.
  • Zombiemen have a (high) chance to drop carbines/ammo now. Consequently, ammo for the SMG is more rare.
  • Chaingunners likewise drop SMGs.
  • Zombiemen and Shotgunners, and Chaingunners use .223 carbine, 00 buckshot, and 9mm SMG respectively, same as you. Very damaging, be careful!
  • Zombiemen shoot (inaccurate) 3-round bursts.
  • Zombiemen, Shotgunners, and Chaingunners use different (more realistic?) accuracy method. Shotgunners are still practically useless at range, lol.
  • Added new difficulty levels. "Easy" roughly corresponds to HMP, "Normal" to UV, and "Realism" to NM, but without respawning. Warning, Realism will make you ragequit on E1M1.
  • Player's health and movement influences weapon sway. Your view will get quite jittery when you're low. Still not fully satisfied with how sway works, may completely rework the accuracy system in the future.
  • Added "No auto switch" to all weapons. Makes you pick what you want to use.
    EDIT:
  • Fixed too-slow chaingunner speed
  • Added wander states for all zombies, really changes up the level expectations.

Feedback appreciated! Sorry it's been a while; school's been kicking my trash.

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Re: [WIP] Tranquility - An "Authentic" Weapons Mod (2015-04-

Postby -Ghost- » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:22 pm

I'm okay with just basic lower and raise gun back up reloads for now, I think reloading with a mag based system would fit into this well.

I played through a little of Map01 of Doom 2 with this and the weapons feel pretty good. I've gotta say the run/walk speeds feel almost too slow, though. I could see that getting you killed if you get stuck in an acid floor trap or something, not to mention being frustrating in a large map.
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Re: [WIP] Tranquility - An "Authentic" Weapons Mod (2015-04-

Postby TheRailgunner » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:39 pm

The movement sway when playing with Quake tilt, mouse tilt, and Real Aim is incredibly erratic, making it difficult to consistently hit a target.
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Re: [WIP] Tranquility - An "Authentic" Weapons Mod (2015-04-

Postby Caligari87 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:40 am

For movement, I will probably increase it again next release. I've been trying to find a good realistic medium between "Ludicrous Cpeed!" and "OMG this is so slow!".

Regarding the sway, what could be done to make it better? I'm loathe to do anything besides "bullets land where you point", but that will always involve bouncing the view around somehow to balance the pinpoint accuracy. Does it need to be smoother? Smaller movements overall? Should I ditch view sway completely and go for a "fire cone" effect instead?

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