Dark Forces

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Re: Dark Forces

Postby Valherran » Sat May 30, 2015 2:30 pm

Balancing - how do you balance from the previous version? Too soft or normal? At that stage, I copied the value of damage \ lives from the original game.
Needless to spread fashion now?)
Does anyone have a desire to see an additional pack with additional enemies?


Ohhh yes, I've been waiting for this part more than ever! :D

Suggestions:

1. Since this is going the classic/enhanced route, I recommend additional options in the main menu when starting a new game:

-Classic Mode: Dark Forces content with original weapons, gear, enemies, and statistics.
-Enhanced Mode: Dark Forces content with altered weapons, gear, enemies, and statistics.
-Monster Mode: Dark Forces weapons and gear with default IWAD enemies.

2. I would also add a menu inside the options menu to change variables like:

-Enable enhanced weapons for Classic Mode
-Enable enhanced enemies for Classic Mode
(Only one of the above options can be picked)
-Enable enhanced weapons for Monster Mode (this is on by default)
-Enable classic weapons for Monster Mode

3. The weapon balance for enhanced mode will definitely need to altered. We would also need to find a median to where the weapons can work effectively against the enhanced enemies, and the Doom/Heretic/Hexen enemies without altering them. Here is a list of things I recommend you change:

-Slot 1 Weapon - I would modify this to use both fists when attacking at double the speed.

-Slot 2 Weapon - Could use a small damage increase and double the RoF to make some map starters more viable. I would also recommend adding in its charged shot feature used in the later games as an alt-fire.

-Slot 3 Weapon - Primary fire could use a small ROF reduction, but with a slightly tighter spread. Alt-Fire would be the weapon's default ROF, but with slightly more spread.

-Slot 4 Weapon - Timer throw alt-fire could use additional damage to be more useful. In Monster mode, this should kill a Pinkie and Sabreclaw in 1 direct hit.

-Slot 5 Weapon - Needs double the ROF increase and some spread. Alt-fire could use a ricochet effect instead of a tri-shot.

-Slot 6 Weapon - Could use more damage, but at the cost of more ammunition consumed.

-Slot 7 Weapon - Needs a damage increase. In monster mode this should kill a Revenant, Ophidian, and Slaughtaur in 1 hit. I would also add a hotkey to detonate all mines placed with the alt-fire.

-Slot 8 Weapon - Blast radius damage should be equal to impact damage, and I would modify the projectile arc to make it travel twice as far. For the alt-fire, it should allow the mortars to bounce on surfaces, after the first bounce it should detonate automatically. In monster mode this gun should kill a Revenant, Ophidian, and Slaughter in 1 hit.

-Slot 9 Weapon - This gun needs to consume at least 25 ammo per shot to prevent spamming it. The alt-fire could use its railgun-like attack used in later games.

-Slot 10 Weapon - Primary fire ROF should be doubled, and the damage should be able to 1 shot any low tier enemies in monster mode. Missile alt-fire needs a faster travel speed, and in monster mode this should be able to 1 shot a Hell Knight, Ophidian, and Serpents.

4. The game could use more enemies, such as the Hoth Trooper armed with a repeater rifle that was used in other MODs (would make a good Chaingun Zombie spawn). I would also nerf some enemies to preserve balance, here is some ideas I can suggest for balance changes in enhanced mode:

-Hoth Trooper - If added, they should only deal 3 damage per bolt and have the same ROF as the default Repeater Rifle.
-Imperial Officer - Should do half the damage, but have pin-point accuracy.
-Imperial Commando - Should have more movement speed.
-Gamorrean - Should have the same speed as a Pinkie.
-Gran - Should be removed from the Baron of Hell spawn points.
-Exoskeleton - Should also spawn in the place of Pinkies and removed from all ranged enemy spawns. Also increase movement speed.
-Interrogation Droid - Should have more movement speed.
-Probe Droid - Add the explosion on death. (Currently missing from MOD)
-Kell Dragon - Should have more movement speed.
-Mandolorian - Fix his attack so that he is not spamming rockets when up close.
-Dark Trooper - Fix it so that they only take flight when they see you.
-General Mohc - Significantly lower his pain chance and speed up his explosive orb wave attack. Fix him so that he does not fly unless he sees you.

Additional Changes:

-Add footsteps and/or banter to all enemies when they are awakened.
-Reduce ammo gained from Concussion Rifle drops on Trandoshans to 25 ammo.
-Reduce ammo gained from E-11 Blaster pickups from imperials to 8-15 ammo.
-Reduce Energy Cell Pickups from Officers to a 25% chance.
-Remove Missile Pack drops from Dark Troopers.
-Increase ammo gained from Cell pickups to 50 ammo.
-Increase non-enemy dropped Power Cells to 50 ammo on pickup.
-If Hoth Trooper is added, set Repeater Rifle ammo pickups to 10 ammo.
-Allow Mandolorians a 25% chance to drop a shield booster on death.
-Imperials should be removed from all Pinkie spawn points.
-Gamorrean, Kell Dragon, and Exoskeleton melee attacks should pierce armor. (Currently missing from MOD.)
-Remove Exoskeleton's ability to reflect explosives. (Thermal Detonators, Mortars, and Missiles.)
-Allow Mouse Droids a 25% chance to spawn in place of stimpack spawn points.
-Add a new item to take place of the Megasphere.
-Allow Interrogation Droids a 25% chance to drop a battery on death.

5. If you get around to modifying all of the monster spawn locations for Heretic and Hexen compatibility, I recommend the following list:

Heretic:

Gargoyle - Imperial Officer/Storm Trooper/Remote/Interrogation Droid
Fire Gargoyle - Imperial Officer/Storm Trooper/Imperial Commando/Hoth Trooper/Remote/Interrogation Droid
Golem - Gammorean
Ghost - Gran
Undead Warrior - Probe Droid
Sabreclaw - Endoskeleton
Ophidian - Trandoshan, Dark Trooper
Disciple - Mandolorian
Weredragon - Kell Dragon, Dark Trooper
Iron Lich - General Mohc
Maulotaur - General Mohc
D'sparil - General Mohc

Hexen: (May have to spawn enemies in clusters to compensate for poor mob density)

Ettin - Imperial Officer/Storm Trooper/Imperial Commando/Gran
Centaur - Imperial Commando/Gran
Afrit - Remote/Interrogation Droid/Probe Droid
Wendigo - Gamorrean/Endoskeleton
Stalker - Dianoga
Green Chaos Serpent - Kell Dragon
Brown Chaos Serpent - Kell Dragon
Slaughtar - Hoth Trooper
Dark Bishop - Trandoshan
Reiver - Remote/Interrogation Droid/Probe Droid
Maulotaur - Dark Trooper
Death Wyvern - Dark Trooper x5
Zedek - Mandolorian x3
Menelkir - Mandolorian x3
Traductus - Mandolorian x3
Herisiarch - Dark Trooper x 10
Korax - General Mohc x 10
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Re: Dark Forces

Postby Lex Safonov » Sun May 31, 2015 2:19 am

After some thought, I decided to release this release.
I present to you a new assembly Dark Forses!
Recent changes:
- Starting from the original video game.
- The balance is shifted in a more complex way (mainly increase in the lives of the enemies. In the future, try to make a menu where you can choose the balance).
- Of course as he wrote earlier - a nice pack of music from the PSX game.
Music plays every level in random order and will not be repeated)
- Numbers for Doom Builder. If you want to do to modify the maps - no problem! Now you can put numbers of actors modification)
Numbers list:
Spoiler:

The following plans:
- ACC Bobstyle imitation. To support Zandronom
- More monsters on the subject of modification.
- It is likely the maps (but very probably because I mapper very bad, unless there are people who will make the maps under my modification).
- Heretic \ Hexen support. Are Debuging.

Links!!!!!:
Dark Forces:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/as7ha ... Forces.pk3
Dark Forces Music Pack (I'm recomended it):
http://www.mediafire.com/download/k5mq5 ... sMusic.pk3

And in the end - have fun! Write error and wishes)

Valherran - Ok, but at the expense of animation \ velocity weapons - they will not change, just original animations)
Last edited by Lex Safonov on Sun May 31, 2015 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dark Forces

Postby Captain J » Sun May 31, 2015 3:08 am

for now, everything is not bad at all to me. but it's kinda awkward that weak remote sometimes replaces the bit stronger interrogation droid and hell knight one is boba fett, because he floats. not like the vanilla doom one.

and if i can have an another question, is there will be custom skill texts?
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Re: Dark Forces

Postby Lex Safonov » Sun May 31, 2015 5:57 am

Captain J wrote:and if i can have an another question, is there will be custom skill texts?

Next time my friend. Later I will try to do something with a choice of difficulty. Some people like the last balance with the original damage \ lives enemies. However, many notice that with the balance on maps played DOOM 2 easily.
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Re: Dark Forces

Postby Valherran » Sun May 31, 2015 2:03 pm

- The balance is shifted in a more complex way (mainly increase in the lives of the enemies. In the future, try to make a menu where you can choose the balance).


What did you change?
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Re: Dark Forces

Postby TheBeardedJedi » Sun May 31, 2015 9:54 pm

This is awesome! Do you plan to make the dark forces levels from the original game too?
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Re: Dark Forces

Postby armymen12002003 » Sun May 31, 2015 11:13 pm

gave this a quick try i like everything i see, are you gonna add a custom player sprite to replace doomguy? if so i suggest this one https://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1668 i hope in your next version your gonna add in the atst, scout troopers and snow troopers.
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Re: Dark Forces

Postby Captain J » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:02 am

Since kyle was not a stormtrooper anymore, i beg to differ on that one.
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Re: Dark Forces

Postby armymen12002003 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:04 am

Oh ok lol never really played dark forces tho lol
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Re: Dark Forces

Postby Lex Safonov » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:05 am

TheBeardedJedi wrote:This is awesome! Do you plan to make the dark forces levels from the original game too?

Tupical situation)
The geometry of the levels you can try to copy, but I note that Dark Forсes has more advanced engine, such as Build. There is a moving sector and are often used portals. (You can see it right on the very first map). Also there are a lot of types of non-standard doors - for example spinning as in Blood on the first map. All this is quite difficult to achieve.
The geometry of the level of simple, but tricked a lot)
Of course I'll try to do something)
Valherran wrote:What did you change?

"Oh come on man, give me a chance!" :)
With the change in the menu, I do know that the surface, and to study the lamp MenuDefs will leave a lot of time. I just do not want to condemn you to an even greater expectation that kills the already meager interest in this modification. I'd rather be doing by a few, but specific)
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Re: Dark Forces

Postby BloodShot » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:46 pm

This is excellent. Dark Forces always had really enjoyable weapons.

Do you plan to implement the force thermal detonators/mines had? in DF classic, a grenade next to an enemy would send his body into the air and away from the explosion and it made them extremely fun.

Also you might want to consider a straight up star wars texture replacement for the doom levels, maybe even just swap out similar Doom textures with ones from Dark Forces
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Re: Dark Forces

Postby Valherran » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:15 pm

Forgot to ask:

Valherran - Ok, but at the expense of animation \ velocity weapons - they will not change, just original animations)


Why won't they change? What is the barrier you are hitting?

With the change in the menu, I do know that the surface, and to study the lamp MenuDefs will leave a lot of time. I just do not want to condemn you to an even greater expectation that kills the already meager interest in this modification. I'd rather be doing by a few, but specific


I was basically asking for a changelog.
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Re: Dark Forces

Postby Lex Safonov » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:55 am

Valherran wrote:Why won't they change? What is the barrier you are hitting?

The initial emphasis is on up these elements from the original game. If I change the animation - I lost all sense of this modification.
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Re: Dark Forces

Postby Valherran » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:05 pm

Lex Safonov wrote:
Valherran wrote:Why won't they change? What is the barrier you are hitting?

The initial emphasis is on up these elements from the original game. If I change the animation - I lost all sense of this modification.


So you are saying you don't know how? If that's the case, i'd get someone to help you with that.
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Re: Dark Forces

Postby jdredalert » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:09 pm

No, he is saying that he wants to re-create the weapons as they were in the original game. If he changes the animations, the sense of authenticity is lost.
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