Metroid: Dreadnought v1 - The Galaxy is Doomed

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Re: Metroid: Dreadnought v1 - The Galaxy is Doomed

Postby twinkieman93 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:52 am

Why do you say Samus isn't hot anymore after Fusion? Are you one of those people who thinks she got mutated by the vaccine?
Image
She looks fairly normal to me...
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Re: Metroid: Dreadnought v1 - The Galaxy is Doomed

Postby Hetdegon » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:44 pm

I stand corrected. Still, needs sequel.
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Re: Metroid: Dreadnought v1 - The Galaxy is Doomed

Postby Cryomundus » Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:25 pm

TehRealSalt wrote:I think there's a console command for changing what you start with; so if you want to start with absolutely nothing, you can.


That's not much of a solution tho. In fact, I'd say that's more like a cheat than anything(and it's just a bad suggestion). I'm more interested in if it's possible to have it as a pick-up, more like how the space jump boots give you double jump + wall-jump.
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Re: Metroid: Dreadnought v1 - The Galaxy is Doomed

Postby twinkieman93 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:01 pm

Hetdegon wrote:I stand corrected. Still, needs sequel.

It does, but it would have a very different plot to it compared to all the other Metroid games.
Spoiler: Discussion of Metroid Fusion's ending!
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Re: Metroid: Dreadnought v1 - The Galaxy is Doomed

Postby Infirnex » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:53 pm

Cryomundus wrote:
TehRealSalt wrote:I think there's a console command for changing what you start with; so if you want to start with absolutely nothing, you can.


That's not much of a solution tho. In fact, I'd say that's more like a cheat than anything(and it's just a bad suggestion). I'm more interested in if it's possible to have it as a pick-up, more like how the space jump boots give you double jump + wall-jump.


The morph ball is integral to Samus, and for the prime series she starts with it by default.
The mod does encourage sequence breaking, and that includes the ball. Jumping is also breaking.
My only suggestion is self limitations. There is no item I can see he could replace to give you a morph ball.

Be glad he didn't introduce the spiderball. That would have loads of sequence breaking potential.
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Re: Metroid: Dreadnought v1 - The Galaxy is Doomed

Postby Princess Viscra Maelstrom » Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:00 pm

Infirnex wrote:The morph ball is integral to Samus, and for the prime series she starts with it by default.

no she doesn't. unless you're referring to the very beginning of Prime, then yes, she does start out with it, but loses shortly after defeating the first boss. she does have it at the start of the second game, though, and i haven't played the third, but i'm sure she'd have it there too.
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Re: Metroid: Dreadnought v1 - The Galaxy is Doomed

Postby Cryomundus » Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:07 pm

Infirnex wrote:
Cryomundus wrote:
TehRealSalt wrote:I think there's a console command for changing what you start with; so if you want to start with absolutely nothing, you can.


That's not much of a solution tho. In fact, I'd say that's more like a cheat than anything(and it's just a bad suggestion). I'm more interested in if it's possible to have it as a pick-up, more like how the space jump boots give you double jump + wall-jump.


The morph ball is integral to Samus, and for the prime series she starts with it by default.
The mod does encourage sequence breaking, and that includes the ball. Jumping is also breaking.
My only suggestion is self limitations. There is no item I can see he could replace to give you a morph ball.

Be glad he didn't introduce the spiderball. That would have loads of sequence breaking potential.


Actually, after the tutorial area, Samus loses the Morphball, and has to find it again. So that's a moot point. Also, in pretty much every other Metroid game, as in the 5 other games that exist, she never starts with the Morphball. To be honest, I wouldn't mind if the railgun was replaced with the Morphball as a pick-up, since there already is the long-beam, which is pretty much rail-gun's equivalent. No need to have 2 rail-guns.
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Re: Metroid: Dreadnought v1 - The Galaxy is Doomed

Postby Ijon Tichy » Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Morph Ball is always the very first thing you get in a Metroid game if you don't start with it. More recent games just start you off with it to cut out the bullshit.

The railgun isn't even in most maps. Those it is in, it's plasma+ tier, and is placed accordingly.

this might be bad
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Re: Metroid: Dreadnought v1 - The Galaxy is Doomed

Postby Cryomundus » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:00 am

Ijon Tichy wrote:Morph Ball is always the very first thing you get in a Metroid game if you don't start with it. More recent games just start you off with it to cut out the bullshit.

The railgun isn't even in most maps. Those it is in, it's plasma+ tier, and is placed accordingly.

this might be bad


And?

All it's used for is breaking maps. It's not actually vital for progression. Currently there's not a single map made that actually uses it for its intended use (traveling through small tunnels).

Honestly I'm thinking for things more in-line with a Single-Player Experience, rather than Multiplayer. Metroid as a concept was always that, a Single-Player game. As neat as it is for Multi, the more players there are the easier it is, really, since you never run out of ammo for your main beams. I'd love it if there was a version developed specifically for multi-player and one that took advantage of Zdoom/GZdoom's power for single-player.

Though, that may not occur until after the project as a whole is done, and then can be taken and modified for a proper SP experience. With permission, of course.
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Re: Metroid: Dreadnought v1 - The Galaxy is Doomed

Postby Sgt. Shivers » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:09 am

Without the morph ball how would you place superbombs?
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Re: Metroid: Dreadnought v1 - The Galaxy is Doomed

Postby Cryomundus » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:34 am

Sgt. Shivers wrote:Without the morph ball how would you place superbombs?

Re: Not. Vital. For. Progression.

Ya'll seem to be missing that bit. Also, the Wave combo is pretty much the replacement for it.

Also, you could probably have a script that runs a check to see if you have morphball item in your inventory, and if you don't, replace the Power-Bomb tank with a Morphball Pick-up. I think something like that has been done before.
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Re: Metroid: Dreadnought v1 - The Galaxy is Doomed

Postby twinkieman93 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:57 am

The Wave Missile is not nearly as powerful as a power bomb. A single power bomb, laid directly at the feet of a cyberdemon, will insta-gib it. And it does this without the crazy framerate drops the Wave Missile causes. You win twice.

Anyways, your suggestion that making the power bombs spawn a morph ball on their first encounter is flawed. You see, they replace berserk packs. A lot of map packs, and I mean a LOT of map packs, like to swarm you with a horde as soon as you pick one up, expecting you to rip and tear your way out. Samus cannot rip and tear*, so she needs something relatively equivalent to be able to escape the situation.

A room-clearing nuke is basically rip and tear on steroids. On extra steroids. The ability to simply curl into a ball would not save you. In fact, since you take more damage when in a ball, it could only hurt more than help.

That having been said... it's certainly possible. The mod already replaces instances of beams you've already acquired with missile tanks.
Spoiler: *
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Re: Metroid: Dreadnought v1 - The Galaxy is Doomed

Postby Valherran » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:44 am

If Item A doesn't exist in player's equipment, item B spawns instead. If item A is present, item A spawns. A few MODs use this method, it can work here too.
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Re: Metroid: Dreadnought v1 - The Galaxy is Doomed

Postby TerminusEst13 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:33 am

Cryomundus wrote:Also, would it be possible to have the morph ball and bombs be pickups and not default equips? The morph ball kinda breaks maps pretty hard. As in almost every map.

Possible, yes. I'm not terribly fond of the idea, though, sorry.
If I do it in the future, it would prolly be a subsidiary of metroid_nomorph--1 means no morphing at all, 2 means you have to pick it up first. And it wouldn't be a "mappers treat this as kind of optional" pickup such as Berserk. And it definitely wouldn't be an only-appears-on-multiplayer-maps pickup like Railgun.
If you don't want to use it to break maps, then, well, don't use it to break maps. Same with jumping, crouching, wall-jumping, and more. It has plenty of other uses, such as having an unbelievably powerful weapon from the start for early Cyber/Baron/etc encounters, a dramatically smaller hitbox to weave through/under fire, and more, and I am extremely loathe to take those away from players.

Cryomundus wrote:One last thing, could the grapple beam be put it, but with the ability to grab and throw enemies?

This might be interesting, though. I don't believe physically throwing enemies would be workable, but using a modified loreshot to yank enemies over to you for potent missile-ing and/or latching on to the environment to swing around might be fun.

Hetdegon wrote:Agh, not Zero Suit, Zero Suit Samus killed Metroid! (Do you wonder why there's no sequel to Fusion? Because Samus is not hot anymore, that's why, thus prequels and baby bottle ship happened. Hell, for all intents and purposes this mod is already more worthy than a game in the series nowadays...)

If I went through with this (a BIG if), there wouldn't be emphasis on "hotness". It's first-person, so it's not like there would be a ton of camera angles swooping around her bum, like in the other games. I'd probably go with a bit more practical of a Zero Suit design, or the gym ensemble from Super/Fusion.
...Mind, this is just theoretical. I might not even go with it at all. Between here and the other places I asked, it seems a lot of people want more equipment/enemies first!

twinkieman93 wrote:All of those ideas seem cool, Term, but I'm not sure how applicable a stealth-based playstyle would be without maps specifically built with it in mind, and with enemies custom-coded to work for it...

Speaking entirely theoretically? It'd probably be less "stealth" and more "agile trickery and fuckery". Open up the suit and step out, which operates autonomously as a stationary turret to tank/distract for you (taking a page from Retro Studio's ill-fated Metroid 1.5). Meleeing mooks from behind is an instant-kill, and even out in the open you'd have dashes, dodges, and while the plasma pistol would actually do damage, a fully-charged shot could stun.
...Like I said, though, entirely theoretical. :p

Sgt. Shivers wrote:[snip!]

Oh wow, there's some pretty clever ideas in here. It'd be really awesome to play as a Federation Trooper, too, not having them be useless or cannon fodder for once.



Spoiler:
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Re: Metroid: Dreadnought v1 - The Galaxy is Doomed

Postby Yholl » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:57 am

Personally, I'd like to see both the Federation trooper and Zero Suit Samus as classes. Sgt. Shivers's idea has the Trooper fill a brute-force kinda tank role, laying down non-stop firepower and absorbing tons of damage in his defensive mode. I'd like to think Zero Suit would be the other end of the spectrum there. I'd imagine Zero Suit's play style revolving around stunning single opponents with the charge shot of her pistol, before closing for a flurry of deadly melee attacks. For upgrades, you could have things that accentuate her agility, like a special dodge manuever that makes projectiles pass through her for a second, or various new attacks, like the energy whip from Smash Bros. or charge up melee strikes, or just flat upgrades like faster pistol charging, etc.

So, normal Samus is the middle of the road class, the Fed Trooper is the slow tough tank that excels against groups of enemies, and Zero Suit is the super fast melee attacker that demolishes single enemies.

Just my two cents, heh.
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