Smooth Doom [WIP 2.0 TEST? WOWIE ZOWIE]

Projects that alter game functions but do not include new maps belong here.
Forum rules
The Projects forums are ONLY for YOUR PROJECTS! If you are asking questions about a project, either find that project's thread, or start a thread in the General section instead.

Got a cool project idea but nothing else? Put it in the project ideas thread instead!

Projects for any Doom-based engine (especially 3DGE) are perfectly acceptable here too.

Please read the full rules for more details.

Re: Smooth Doom [UPDATE 9/25/19]

Postby Gifty » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:39 pm

Asais10 wrote:This is a very cool mod, but I think it shouldn't add extra frames to the monster attack animations (including Shotgunguy pumping, Revenant/Cacodemon melee, Arch-Vile healing and Pinky/Spectre biting) because as Civvie-11 said, the monsters in Doom telegraph their attacks, and your muscle memory kicks in to dodge them, which doesn't really happen because of those extra firing frames. I don't really know about the directional attack frames, because if the enemies are not looking at you then they're obviously not attacking you but infighting.

With all respect to Civvie, I think it's kind of inarguable that enhancing every aspect of the game except the attack animations would look like total shit. Right now I'm in the middle of giving all the monster sprites a second pass, as most of the assets currently in the mod were done a long time ago when I had basically no experience or powerful tools. I think the ideal solution is to pull everything up to a higher standard of quality, which would include more clearly telegraphed monster attacks. The animation below is an example of the sort of quality I'm shooting for:

ATTACK.gif


It's going to take a while because I'm basically doing all this by myself, but fortunately with the tools and experience I have now I can operate at a much higher level of quality and efficiency than would ever have been possible at the start of this mod. Currently I'm about halfway through a complete overhaul of the imp, hopefully the jankier-looking monsters can follow suit soon after.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Gifty
Recon'ize that smell?
 
Joined: 16 Jun 2013

Re: Smooth Doom [UPDATE 9/25/19]

Postby Kazudra » Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:37 pm

Gifty wrote:
Asais10 wrote:This is a very cool mod, but I think it shouldn't add extra frames to the monster attack animations (including Shotgunguy pumping, Revenant/Cacodemon melee, Arch-Vile healing and Pinky/Spectre biting) because as Civvie-11 said, the monsters in Doom telegraph their attacks, and your muscle memory kicks in to dodge them, which doesn't really happen because of those extra firing frames. I don't really know about the directional attack frames, because if the enemies are not looking at you then they're obviously not attacking you but infighting.

With all respect to Civvie, I think it's kind of inarguable that enhancing every aspect of the game except the attack animations would look like total shit. Right now I'm in the middle of giving all the monster sprites a second pass, as most of the assets currently in the mod were done a long time ago when I had basically no experience or powerful tools. I think the ideal solution is to pull everything up to a higher standard of quality, which would include more clearly telegraphed monster attacks. The animation below is an example of the sort of quality I'm shooting for:

ATTACK.gif


It's going to take a while because I'm basically doing all this by myself, but fortunately with the tools and experience I have now I can operate at a much higher level of quality and efficiency than would ever have been possible at the start of this mod. Currently I'm about halfway through a complete overhaul of the imp, hopefully the jankier-looking monsters can follow suit soon after.


This is good... this is also bad... This means I have more work ahead...
Then again, upscaling isn't my only go-to
sexyeye.gif

What do you think?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Kazudra
 
Joined: 25 May 2015

Re: Smooth Doom [UPDATE 9/25/19]

Postby acridAxid » Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:21 am

Asais10 wrote:the monsters in Doom telegraph their attacks, and your muscle memory kicks in to dodge them, which doesn't really happen because of those extra firing frames.


Completely disagree; just checked the scripts and can say that the single frame added to the aim-to-fire animation does not appear to be defeating my muscle memory at all.
acridAxid
 
Joined: 23 Oct 2017

Re: Smooth Doom [UPDATE 9/25/19]

Postby Lagi » Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:30 am

Gifty wrote:more clearly telegraphed monster attacks.

I agree.

I think its "cinematic" cool, when you notice, chaingunner start spinning his barrels, and you run for cover.
User avatar
Lagi
 
Joined: 23 Jun 2018
Location: Thou shalt alter thy beliefs with new evidence

Re: Smooth Doom [UPDATE 9/25/19]

Postby Gifty » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:44 am

Kazudra wrote:*Evil eye*
What do you think?

I think it looks great! Will definitely throw that into the next update if it's alright with you.

Hope I didn't come off a little harsh before, I do appreciate every bit of feedback the mod gets. Being a mostly solo effort can make it feel a little high-pressure sometimes! I have some neat things coming hopefully in a not-too-distant timeframe.
User avatar
Gifty
Recon'ize that smell?
 
Joined: 16 Jun 2013

Re: Smooth Doom [UPDATE 9/25/19]

Postby acridAxid » Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:56 am

Gifty, is it intentional that Monster Rebalanced imp never melees?
acridAxid
 
Joined: 23 Oct 2017

Re: Smooth Doom [UPDATE 9/25/19]

Postby GreenDoomguy1999 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:26 am

Looks like I found new bug:
-Cacodemon's attack animation ends after cacodemon starts moving,resulting this
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
GreenDoomguy1999
 
Joined: 07 Aug 2014

Re: Smooth Doom [UPDATE 9/25/19]

Postby Kazudra » Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:21 am

GreenDoomguy1999 wrote:Looks like I found new bug:
-Cacodemon's attack animation ends after cacodemon starts moving,resulting this

Interestingly enough, the last frame isn't even being used; I think this'll fix it.

Code: Select allExpand view
See:
      HEAD A 3 A_Chase
      loop
      HEMI FEDCB 2 A_Chase
      goto see
Missile:
      HEMI BC 2 A_FaceTarget
      HEMI DE 3 A_FaceTarget
      
      //normal attack
      TNT1 a 0 a_jumpif(CallACS("PinkyToggle")==1,"+2")      
      HEMI F 3 Bright A_HeadAttack
      HEMI G 2 A_FaceTarget
      //fast attack
      TNT1 a 0 a_jumpif(CallACS("PinkyToggle")==0,"+2")      
      HEMI F 3 Bright a_custommissile("fastcacoball")
      HEMI G 2 A_FaceTarget
      TNT1 a 0
      goto see+2
Kazudra
 
Joined: 25 May 2015

Re: Smooth Doom [UPDATE 9/25/19]

Postby Kazudra » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:01 am

Kazudra wrote:
GreenDoomguy1999 wrote:Looks like I found new bug:
-Cacodemon's attack animation ends after cacodemon starts moving,resulting this

Interestingly enough, the last frame isn't even being used; I think this'll fix it.

Code: Select allExpand view
See:
      HEAD A 3 A_Chase
      loop
      HEMI FEDCB 2 A_Chase
      goto see
Missile:
      HEMI BC 2 A_FaceTarget
      HEMI DE 3 A_FaceTarget
      
      //normal attack
      TNT1 a 0 a_jumpif(CallACS("PinkyToggle")==1,"+2")      
      HEMI F 3 Bright A_HeadAttack
      HEMI G 2 A_FaceTarget
      //fast attack
      TNT1 a 0 a_jumpif(CallACS("PinkyToggle")==0,"+2")      
      HEMI F 3 Bright a_custommissile("fastcacoball")
      HEMI G 2 A_FaceTarget
      TNT1 a 0
      goto see+2



Lagi wrote:
Gifty wrote:more clearly telegraphed monster attacks.

I agree.

I think its "cinematic" cool, when you notice, chaingunner start spinning his barrels, and you run for cover.

I think a sound queue would be more fitting; it lets the player know who's attacking and which frames are to focus on.
Kazudra
 
Joined: 25 May 2015

Re: Smooth Doom [UPDATE 9/25/19]

Postby Lagi » Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:13 am

Kazudra wrote:
Lagi wrote:
Gifty wrote:more clearly telegraphed monster attacks.

I agree.

I think its "cinematic" cool, when you notice, chaingunner start spinning his barrels, and you run for cover.

I think a sound queue would be more fitting; it lets the player know who's attacking and which frames are to focus on.

I support that. The more player senses involved the better. Just someone need to do it :)
User avatar
Lagi
 
Joined: 23 Jun 2018
Location: Thou shalt alter thy beliefs with new evidence

Re: Smooth Doom [UPDATE 9/25/19]

Postby GreenDoomguy1999 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:08 pm

Kazudra wrote:
GreenDoomguy1999 wrote:Looks like I found new bug:
-Cacodemon's attack animation ends after cacodemon starts moving,resulting this

Interestingly enough, the last frame isn't even being used; I think this'll fix it.

Code: Select allExpand view
See:
      HEAD A 3 A_Chase
      loop
      HEMI FEDCB 2 A_Chase
      goto see
Missile:
      HEMI BC 2 A_FaceTarget
      HEMI DE 3 A_FaceTarget
      
      //normal attack
      TNT1 a 0 a_jumpif(CallACS("PinkyToggle")==1,"+2")      
      HEMI F 3 Bright A_HeadAttack
      HEMI G 2 A_FaceTarget
      //fast attack
      TNT1 a 0 a_jumpif(CallACS("PinkyToggle")==0,"+2")      
      HEMI F 3 Bright a_custommissile("fastcacoball")
      HEMI G 2 A_FaceTarget
      TNT1 a 0
      goto see+2

The unused frame actually reveals another problem - its becames the SIXTH frame,while with used 5 frames it goes 15 tics(original cacodemon code uses 15 tics for 5 tics for all 3 frames)
The solution here is making frame HEMIB,HEMIC and HEMID being 2 tics long,it will be 6 tics in result + frame HEMIE,HEMIF and HEMIG being 3 tics long,it will be 9 tics in result,6 tics + 9 tics = 15 tics,just like the tics of original cacodemon

P.S.Found the reason of cacodemon moving before finishing attack :

HEMI FEDCB 2 A_Chase
Instead of A_Chase its supposted to be A_FaceTarget

P.P.S.After some pain and sudden appearence of r_opengl error(which dissapeared after rebooting)I tried to make cacodemons mouth open AND close animation to fit 15 tics(because above I did it only for cacos mouth opens),I just based it on cacodemons code from OLD versions of mod and result looks like this :

See:
HEAD A 3 A_Chase
loop
HEMI EDC 1 A_FaceTarget //(3 tics for cacodemons mouth closing)
goto see
Missile:
HEMI BBCD 1 A_FaceTarget //(4 tics total)

//normal attack
TNT1 a 0 a_jumpif(CallACS("PinkyToggle")==1,"+2")
HEMI E 2 Bright A_FaceTarget //(4 tics from above line + 2 tic = 6 tics)
HEMI F 3 Bright A_FaceTarget //(6 tics from above line + 3 tics = 9 tics)
HEMI G 3 Bright A_HeadAttack //(9 tics from above line + 3 tics = 12 tics + 3 tics for cacodemons mouth closing = 15 tics)
User avatar
GreenDoomguy1999
 
Joined: 07 Aug 2014

Re: Smooth Doom [UPDATE 9/25/19]

Postby Kazudra » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:57 am

Remember, this mod is more for animations; Caco still has to abide by it's Vanilla behavior, which is Attack 10 tics -> Chase.
The Wind-down being apart of chase doesn't change it's behavior and looks nice.
Kazudra
 
Joined: 25 May 2015

Re: Smooth Doom [UPDATE 9/25/19]

Postby Gifty » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:24 pm

The cacodemon wind-down was intentionally coded that way, I couldn't get the animation to flow how I wanted under the 15-tic limit, so some of it overlaps with the return to "SEE." For a monster that doesn't animate very much I thought the transition gave it some extra life.
User avatar
Gifty
Recon'ize that smell?
 
Joined: 16 Jun 2013

Re: Smooth Doom [UPDATE 9/25/19]

Postby GreenDoomguy1999 » Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:28 pm

Okay,but what about pain elemental,is he will have same change?
Also found another bug :
-FastCacodemonBall lacks dynamic light
User avatar
GreenDoomguy1999
 
Joined: 07 Aug 2014

Re: Smooth Doom [UPDATE 9/25/19]

Postby condor67 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:00 am

Kazudra wrote:You'll need a glowing Flats mod, Brightmaps, and generally tweaking the settings.
Personally I dislike the filtering, but for the sake of replication...


Your screenshot looks really interesting, what mods are you using exactly? Specially for the beautiful bloom effect on the ceiling :shock:

The blood on the floor looks more darker and realistic as well, are you using any mod to change it or just tweaked something manually?

I'm already using Brightmaps Plus v1.71 and enjoying it a lot, it makes the enviroments more realistic without messing up the vanilla aesthetics in my opinion.
Maybe I should have to tweak things on that mod to increase the bloom effect?

I just would like to improve the bloom a little bit, do you know how to do that?

And also increase the ambient occlusion if possible
User avatar
condor67
 
Joined: 15 Apr 2020

PreviousNext

Return to Gameplay Mods

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DrBusinessPhD, phantombeta and 7 guests