GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, UPDATE 12/4/2019 [V1.4]

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Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, UPDATE 11/15/2019 [V1.3]

Postby Ivory Duke » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:15 pm

Congratulations on the release, I just started playing and am having a good time.

I'd like to report a couple issues I ran into in the few maps I have played so far:
- the "WHOA BIG" sound from Metal Slug is so much louder than any other sound so far it made it instinctively lower the volume of my speaker;
- if you press reload when using Kustan's staff and have no potions yet the sprite jitters for a split second (recorded video https://streamable.com/niv0b);
- not sure if intended but heat was not building up when using Kustan's staff while under the effect of the cloack potion.

Not issue but suggestion:
I know this mod targets older GZDoom versions such as 1.9.6 but I wish the main menu was tweaked to make the mod options accessible even to those of us that use more recent GZDoom versions.
I have edited the menu strictly for personal use to add a Mod Options so that it works universally with all GZDoom versions (see attached picture).
That said I do understand if there is no interest in doing this.
Regardless it would be nice if the custom controls options also included the binds for the weapons as well.

Question:
I did go through the guide but I still feel somewhat lost on some things, specifically the powerups.
I am glad what they do is printed to console so that I can review them but I still do not understand if they stack up, replace each other, or whatever else.
Is there a written guide I may consult? If such a thing exists already I apologize for not noticing it.
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Edited GMOTA menu.PNG
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Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, UPDATE 11/15/2019 [V1.3]

Postby Combine_Kegan » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:45 pm

Ivory Duke wrote:Congratulations on the release, I just started playing and am having a good time.

I'd like to report a couple issues I ran into in the few maps I have played so far:
- the "WHOA BIG" sound from Metal Slug is so much louder than any other sound so far it made it instinctively lower the volume of my speaker;
- if you press reload when using Kustan's staff and have no potions yet the sprite jitters for a split second (recorded video https://streamable.com/niv0b);
- not sure if intended but heat was not building up when using Kustan's staff while under the effect of the cloack potion.

Not issue but suggestion:
I know this mod targets older GZDoom versions such as 1.9.6 but I wish the main menu was tweaked to make the mod options accessible even to those of us that use more recent GZDoom versions.
I have edited the menu strictly for personal use to add a Mod Options so that it works universally with all GZDoom versions (see attached picture).
That said I do understand if there is no interest in doing this.
Regardless it would be nice if the custom controls options also included the binds for the weapons as well.

Question:
I did go through the guide but I still feel somewhat lost on some things, specifically the powerups.
I am glad what they do is printed to console so that I can review them but I still do not understand if they stack up, replace each other, or whatever else.
Is there a written guide I may consult? If such a thing exists already I apologize for not noticing it.


odd, I don't get the jitters with the older versions of GZDoom when pressing reload, I assume that might be the single tic frame I have at the start of the reload state being caught with the newer versions of GZDoom, I'll add an additional a_weaponready (WRF_NOFIRE) and that should help address that. I'll also lower the volume of the super burger announcer.
As for the mod options thing, does that even apply to GMOTA? I mean I don't have any special options for the mod itself. I'm also not sure what happens if you add that menu choice and then play on older versions of GZdoom or Zandronum, if that causes any sort of errors or conflicts then I'm afraid I won't be doing such things, I've been putting a lot of effort into keeping GMOTA Zandronum compatible.

Finally, about the powerups, are we talking the subweapons and such that pop out of chests? They work like most subweapons from arcade games and the like: the new replaces the old, and getting duplicates just gives you extra ammo.
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Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, UPDATE 11/15/2019 [V1.3]

Postby Ivory Duke » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:53 pm

Jitters: the video was recorded using Zandronum, so it does apply to older GZDoom versions as well.

Menu: the way I implemented the menu is Zandronum compatible, again that picture was taken in Zandronum. D4T used the same method to create their MOD OPTIONS added in 2.5 (which was suggested and coded by me as well).
I do understand you may feel resilient to add it since yes GMOTA does not have anything crazy bind wise going on. I guess it is really just a matter of personal preference, I personally much prefer it when I am being clearly told at a glance where I need to look to find all the necessary binds instead of roaming above and below through the default ZDoom menus
Code: Select allExpand view
Listmenu "MainMenu"
{
   position 96,37
   Selector "M_SKULL1",-42,0
   Linespacing 19
   StaticPatch 90, 5, "M_GMOTA"   
   PatchItem "M_NGAME", "n", "PlayerclassMenu"
   PatchItem "M_RDTHIS","r", "ReadThisMenu"
   PatchItem "M_MODOP", "c", "GMOTAOptions"
   PatchItem "M_OPTION","o", "OptionsMenu"
   PatchItem "M_LOADG", "l", "LoadGameMenu"
   PatchItem "M_SAVEG", "s", "SaveGameMenu"
   PatchItem "M_QUITG", "q", "QuitMenu"

    Font "SMALLFONT", WHITE
    StaticText 0, 211, "$VERSION"
}

OptionMenu "GMOTAOptions"
{
     [...]
}


Powerups: I eventually figured it out on my own but some kind of reference material would be nice, even a quick overview in a spoiler in the post.
Last edited by Ivory Duke on Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, UPDATE 11/15/2019 [V1.3]

Postby Combine_Kegan » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:06 pm

Ivory Duke wrote:Jitters: the video was recorded using Zandronum, so it does apply to older GZDoom versions as well.

Menu: the way I implemented the menu is Zandronum compatible, again that picture was taken in Zandronum. D4T used the same method to create their MOD OPTIONS added in 2.5 (which was suggested and coded by me as well).
I do understand you may feel resilient to add it since yes GMOTA does not have anything crazy bind wise going on. I guess it is really just a matter of personal preference, I personally much prefer it when I am being clearly told at a glance where I need to look to find all the necessary binds instead of roaming above and below through the default ZDoom menus
Code: Select allExpand view
Listmenu "MainMenu"
{
   position 96,37
   Selector "M_SKULL1",-42,0
   Linespacing 19
   StaticPatch 90, 5, "M_GMOTA"   
   PatchItem "M_NGAME", "n", "PlayerclassMenu"
   PatchItem "M_RDTHIS","r", "ReadThisMenu"
   PatchItem "M_MODOP", "c", "GMOTAOptions"
   PatchItem "M_OPTION","o", "OptionsMenu"
   PatchItem "M_LOADG", "l", "LoadGameMenu"
   PatchItem "M_SAVEG", "s", "SaveGameMenu"
   PatchItem "M_QUITG", "q", "QuitMenu"

    Font "SMALLFONT", WHITE
    StaticText 0, 211, "$VERSION"
}

OptionMenu "GMOTAOptions"
{
     [...]
}


Powerups: I eventually figured it out on my own but a reference manual of sort would be very nice for new users.


Weird that the jittering thing slipped past me this long, still, adding an a_weaponready (WRF_NOFIRE) fixed it right up for Zandronum. I'll at least consider the mod options thing, though I won't make any promises just yet. Regarding the powerups I realized you might have been talking about the upgrade items for the heroes, like the ones on the flashing pedestals that replace weapon spawns. I thought about adding those to the F1 screens but I figured I'd leave things as is and just encourage players to see new weird items, grab them and see what happens, they all provide tool tips when you get them, and I think it's nice when games give the player a bit of stuff they need to feel out for themselves.
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Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, UPDATE 11/15/2019 [V1.3]

Postby Ivory Duke » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:11 pm

I'll at least consider the mod options thing, though I won't make any promises just yet.

Totally, do what you think is right.
I have added on my personal copy of GMOTA just because that is something I feel very strongly about having for any mod I play, but you are of course 100% free to do as you wish.
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Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, UPDATE 12/4/2019 [V1.4]

Postby Combine_Kegan » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:47 am

Phew, okay so that "Small" update I had planned got a lot bigger than anticipated, but v1.4's out now, grab it and have fun.
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Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, UPDATE 12/4/2019 [V1.4]

Postby Asenji » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:58 am

Been meaning to hold off a review of the newest update until v1.4 rolled out so here we are.

Kustam is pretty amazing, honestly! He just might be my favorite of the bunch (yet, perhaps, can't rule out Samson, right?). Quite like how he was designed to be more methodical than the others and it shows- what with knowing which of your tools is most beneficial to whatever you come across. His weapon, staff, kicking, and Sentinel Arms all look, sound, and, of course, feel superb and stellar. Zero complaints there. I'm very pleased with his implementation! The only problem I have with his arrival is towards one of his support potions, the Cloak potion. It may just be that I've been playing Kustam in primarily Very Hard/Nightmare! mode so hitscanners become present and common but I typically found myself passing it up in favor of the other potions or typically the Invincibility potion which not only, well, makes you invulnerable but also plays quite nicely with the heat venter upgrades. Also, does the Power potion have any other effect on the staff and kicks (i.e. innate damage boost or the like) besides supply Might Ring on command? Same with the Cloak and Invul. potion situation I brought up, I would pass up Power potion on mapsets where I had already obtained a Might Ring.

Kustam is a lovely addition and its gotten to the point where I feel a bit guilty leaving Blaz and Doomslayer in the dust but I have been testing out their new changes, too! Doomslayer definitely feels much better and I especially like the changes to the Sapphire Beretta, Mourning Star, and Sunder. I originally said in my 1.0 review that I had a visual distaste for the Mourning Star and man, I have *no* idea what was wrong with me at the time but the opposite is true today: it looks pretty damn cool and I love the idea behind it. I do think however Rend still needs some further work to make it more impactful (I'd say this even extends to the Berserk Mode alt-fire). Mechanically, its great but its the oddball when it comes to weight in DS' arsenal. One more thing, the audio cues for the bombs and daggers are a very welcome QoL improvement (especially for someone like me) but is it possible to also add in cues for Sunder? Can't remember if Berserk had its own cue off the top of my head but I might as well mention it. One other thing, the ability to use bombs and daggers during Bersek yay or nay? Lastly, small nitpick but potential fix nonetheless: holding down the fire key and switching between any of Doomslayer's weapons still has him fire his on-hand weapon but Rend is the only exception. I've had several encounters where this was a problem.

There is not much for me to address towards the Blaz changes (you hit the nail on the head with him in my opinion) but I've actually been clamoring for these ammo changes. Before, it was way too easy to carry large amounts and not really manage ammo types but I'm glad this is now just a problem from yesteryear and I can have fun managing ammo once more. The new Fatal Draw idle frame and powered up backhand swipe are neat, too.

Nightmare! is also actually fun now so congratulations on that. I admire that you went through the trouble of giving a variant to the entire beastiary just for this mode. One other thing I commend you for is changing said beastiary in a logical but not unfun way (i.e. Shroud Gunners and Emerald Cobras may be hitscan but they are no where near Chaingunner hell if you play your cards right). Special mentions go to the Living Armor change (always had a thing for Pinky buffs in any mod) and the boss demon additions. Love this mode so much. Might as well mention it now but the barrel interactions are quite wonderful. Always fun chucking those things even if it may hurt me in the process.

In summary, V1.4 is all in all a great update. Kustam rocks, new buffs and nerfs were definitely warranted but logical and needed, and Nightmare! is a whole heap of fun if you're experienced with the mod and the intricacies in it. Cannot wait to see Samson get added in but I'm well aware you're soon to work on a new Combined Arms update (which I am also very excited for, not even nostalgically speaking about it either) so good luck with that as well. It is all worth the wait!
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Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, UPDATE 12/4/2019 [V1.4]

Postby Combine_Kegan » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:53 am

Dang, that's a lot of feedback, lemme address a few things for you there

Asenji wrote:The only problem I have with his arrival is towards one of his support potions, the Cloak potion.

While it's true the cloak potion has a limited effect in Knightmare mode overall, it does carry an additional benefit, you cool off at an extremely fast rate under the effects of the potion, meaning you can spam special staff moves as much as you want while you have the cloak potion effect. Though I might slow it down a little in a future update so it's not as strong right now, but it still has its uses.

Asenji wrote:Also, does the Power potion have any other effect on the staff and kicks (i.e. innate damage boost or the like) besides supply Might Ring on command? Same with the Cloak and Invul. potion situation I brought up, I would pass up Power potion on mapsets where I had already obtained a Might Ring

Actually the Power potion has a unique effect separate from the might ring, you can just hold down the attack button and deal out a steady string of power staff attacks, and you can shoot special explosive shots with the hand cannon, it actually doesn't effect the kick in any way at the moment, though I might do something about that later on.

Asenji wrote:I do think however Rend still needs some further work to make it more impactful (I'd say this even extends to the Berserk Mode alt-fire). Mechanically, its great but its the oddball when it comes to weight in DS' arsenal.

This'll be something I'll poke at in the next update as well, I'm not perfectly happy with its current heft either, though I don't want to slow it down too much, as Kustam is supposed to be the slow heavy hitter, adjusting the projectile slash move while berserking isn't a bad idea though.

Asenji wrote:One more thing, the audio cues for the bombs and daggers are a very welcome QoL improvement (especially for someone like me) but is it possible to also add in cues for Sunder? Can't remember if Berserk had its own cue off the top of my head but I might as well mention it.

Sunder and Berserk currently don't have audio cues for being charged up, I can easily add one for Sunder in the future, and I'll need to figure out a smooth way to do it for Berserk, though that shouldn't be too much of a hassle, I'll add these to the todo list.

Asenji wrote:One other thing, the ability to use bombs and daggers during Bersek yay or nay?

I've thought about this but I don't think it's necessary, seeing as you have crazy lifesteal on melee, damage resistance, AoE punches, and a pretty potent ranged shot during the berserk phase, plus I picture Doomslayer has worked himself up so much during this that he's really only focused on clobbering things with his bare hands or swinging his sword.

Asenji wrote:Lastly, small nitpick but potential fix nonetheless: holding down the fire key and switching between any of Doomslayer's weapons still has him fire his on-hand weapon but Rend is the only exception. I've had several encounters where this was a problem.

Woops, added this one for the todo list too.

Thanks again for all of your indepth feedback and thoughts, glad to see you're liking v1.4 so much, I'll keep workin hard for you guys.
and yeah I'm looking forward to getting Samson in too, he's gonna be a fun one
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Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, UPDATE 12/4/2019 [V1.4]

Postby Asenji » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:29 pm

Combine_Kegan wrote:While it's true the cloak potion has a limited effect in Knightmare mode overall, it does carry an additional benefit, you cool off at an extremely fast rate under the effects of the potion, meaning you can spam special staff moves as much as you want while you have the cloak potion effect. Though I might slow it down a little in a future update so it's not as strong right now, but it still has its uses.


Combine_Kegan wrote:Actually the Power potion has a unique effect separate from the might ring, you can just hold down the attack button and deal out a steady string of power staff attacks, and you can shoot special explosive shots with the hand cannon, it actually doesn't effect the kick in any way at the moment, though I might do something about that later on.

Did not know of those effects, especially the Cloak's. Will definitely stop passing those two up and start playing with those again.

Combine_Kegan wrote:I've thought about this but I don't think it's necessary, seeing as you have crazy lifesteal on melee, damage resistance, AoE punches, and a pretty potent ranged shot during the berserk phase, plus I picture Doomslayer has worked himself up so much during this that he's really only focused on clobbering things with his bare hands or swinging his sword.

Yeah it does make sense that way.

Thanks for the replies, Kegan!
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Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, UPDATE 12/4/2019 [V1.4]

Postby Meyers07 » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:59 am

While this is indeed a very fun and unique spin to the DOOM formula, not to mention complete removal of hitscan enemies, i would love to have some reviews and feedbacks:
-Not halfway to the map players are too easily overpowered (normal difficulty though)
-Add more enemy variety like putting different enemy types to replace a type of enemy (like, Project Brutality did)
-Make it so you can't replace powerup easily. It's a bit too easy to walk and replace a certain preferred weapon/item.
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Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, UPDATE 12/4/2019 [V1.4]

Postby Combine_Kegan » Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:17 pm

Meyers07 wrote:While this is indeed a very fun and unique spin to the DOOM formula, not to mention complete removal of hitscan enemies, i would love to have some reviews and feedbacks:
-Not halfway to the map players are too easily overpowered (normal difficulty though)
-Add more enemy variety like putting different enemy types to replace a type of enemy (like, Project Brutality did)
-Make it so you can't replace powerup easily. It's a bit too easy to walk and replace a certain preferred weapon/item.


I suggest cranking up the difficulty to knightmare mode if you're looking for a challenge, and I won't be implementing an enemy randomizer, sorry. I'm still considering adding a "Pistol start" CVAR that resets your inventory after every level, that'd be another method of making the game harder for folks. As for subweapons getting replaced too easily, your best bet will be to just avoid subweapon pickups.
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Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, UPDATE 12/4/2019 [V1.4]

Postby Meyers07 » Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:26 pm

Also i see:
-Intermissions and endings are not replaced (yet), maybe waiting Samson?
-The shadow version of the heroes should've randomizing the replacements of Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind, in event that the player encounter those, it will be an epic fight. Because as i unlock Sentinel Arms, the fight with them is too anticlimactic compared to the arms i wield, to compare, it's like playing Russian Overkill with normal monsters.
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Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, UPDATE 12/4/2019 [V1.4]

Postby Combine_Kegan » Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:23 pm

Meyers07 wrote:Also i see:
-Intermissions and endings are not replaced (yet), maybe waiting Samson?
-The shadow version of the heroes should've randomizing the replacements of Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind, in event that the player encounter those, it will be an epic fight. Because as i unlock Sentinel Arms, the fight with them is too anticlimactic compared to the arms i wield, to compare, it's like playing Russian Overkill with normal monsters.


By intermissions I assume you're talking about the little text crawls, which I'm not going to bother fiddling with as there's a LOT of .wads out there and that kinda stuff works on a .wad by .wad basis, same thing with endings.

and I'm not gonna have boss tier monsters summon hero shades or be replaced by them, sorry. Besides the sentinel arms would completely decimate the hero shades too, so I don't see any problem here.
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Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, UPDATE 12/4/2019 [V1.4]

Postby Fokias » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:51 am

Been playing this mod for a while now, absolutely loving Kustam and the additions of 1.4 to the point I felt like making an account just to thank you for making this mod!

Here's a bit of feedback and suggestions:

Doomslayer:
-How about allowing the player to use the Sapphire Beretta with Sunder the same way you can with Rend? Sunder has no alt-fire at the moment, so this looks like an easy fit.
-On the same note, how about allowing Sunder kills to refill the Beretta's ammo no matter what? From what I gathered, it refills from regular ammo pickups, but if all your ammo is full already, you're not getting any refills. Sure, there's no point using the pistol if all your other weapons are fully stock, unless you're looking for a challenge, but the option would be nice.
-Using Sunder for animation cancelling the Thunderbuss allows it to fire extremely fast, faster than the regular shotgun. Not sure if that's intentional? If not, I'd suggest having Sunder be out for a minimum amount of time on a whiff so it's on par with Rend's animation cancel?
-More grenade variety would be nice; How about some kind of "Thunderclap" bomb that'd act like a flashbang, stunning enemies caught in the blast like Kustam's Kick or Blaz' Boomerang subweapon? Or How about a smoke bomb that'd either cut off line of sight for enemies, or provide Doomslayer with temporary invisibility ala Shadow Warrior?

Kustam:
-I feel that the staff spinning has been nerfed a bit too hard with 1.4; How about making it faster to deploy to reward quick reflects instead of turtling as it used to in 1.3? Besides, Do you think it would be interesting to make it so that right click toggles the staff spinning, instead of just turning it on?
-The Rapid shot feels a bit overpowered; maybe it's just my playstyle, but I spent 90% of my time using it, and half of the remaining time wishing I had it. I'd suggest maybe bumping up the ammo cost ever so slightly to 4 or even 5 units per shot to make the other subweapons more competitive?
-This one's purely aesthetic, but please add more feedback to Kustam's kick. Would it be possible to add decals where the kicked enemies impact stuff? I think It'd be incredibly satisfying to see your enemies cratering into walls and disappearing into the sky with a twinkle as they blast off like Team Rocket!

That's all I have for now, thanks again for this wonderful mod!
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Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, UPDATE 12/4/2019 [V1.4]

Postby Combine_Kegan » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:31 am

Fokias wrote:Been playing this mod for a while now, absolutely loving Kustam and the additions of 1.4 to the point I felt like making an account just to thank you for making this mod!

Here's a bit of feedback and suggestions:

Doomslayer:
-How about allowing the player to use the Sapphire Beretta with Sunder the same way you can with Rend? Sunder has no alt-fire at the moment, so this looks like an easy fit.

At this point, I may as well add that, so I'll add that to the list

Fokias wrote:-On the same note, how about allowing Sunder kills to refill the Beretta's ammo no matter what? From what I gathered, it refills from regular ammo pickups, but if all your ammo is full already, you're not getting any refills. Sure, there's no point using the pistol if all your other weapons are fully stock, unless you're looking for a challenge, but the option would be nice.

Yeah, alright I'll make it so striking enemies with Sunder gives a handful of pistol shots


Fokias wrote:-Using Sunder for animation cancelling the Thunderbuss allows it to fire extremely fast, faster than the regular shotgun. Not sure if that's intentional? If not, I'd suggest having Sunder be out for a minimum amount of time on a whiff so it's on par with Rend's animation cancel?

That one's an oversight, I'll make sure to fix that for v1.5

Fokias wrote:-More grenade variety would be nice; How about some kind of "Thunderclap" bomb that'd act like a flashbang, stunning enemies caught in the blast like Kustam's Kick or Blaz' Boomerang subweapon? Or How about a smoke bomb that'd either cut off line of sight for enemies, or provide Doomslayer with temporary invisibility ala Shadow Warrior?

I'm pretty content with Doomslayer's current lineup of subweapons, he's got a full arsenal of primary weapons, and him having a low subweapon count is just a quirk with his character. There's a reason why his magic stat is the lowest.

Kustam:

Fokias wrote:-I feel that the staff spinning has been nerfed a bit too hard with 1.4; How about making it faster to deploy to reward quick reflects instead of turtling as it used to in 1.3? Besides, Do you think it would be interesting to make it so that right click toggles the staff spinning, instead of just turning it on?

I can most likely make him raise it faster on startup, but I don't want a toggle for it, that'd make it feel really cumbersome to me.

Fokias wrote:-The Rapid shot feels a bit overpowered; maybe it's just my playstyle, but I spent 90% of my time using it, and half of the remaining time wishing I had it. I'd suggest maybe bumping up the ammo cost ever so slightly to 4 or even 5 units per shot to make the other subweapons more competitive?

I'll consider this one. On a shot per shot basis it does less damage than normal shots and I'm not sure if I want to make it comparable in ammo consumption, I mean sure you could argue the faster fire rate is what makes it relevant but in my eyes, if it used the same ammo as the normal shot but did significantly less damage, I wouldn't bother with it.

Fokias wrote:-This one's purely aesthetic, but please add more feedback to Kustam's kick. Would it be possible to add decals where the kicked enemies impact stuff? I think It'd be incredibly satisfying to see your enemies cratering into walls and disappearing into the sky with a twinkle as they blast off like Team Rocket!

I don't think I can smoothly do this one unless I turn every killed monster into a unique projectile, add decals and all of that. The whole point of that super kick is to mimic how finishing enemies off with the super boot worked in Battletoads, so I'm not sure if I want to do anything there.

I appreciate the feedback, and I'm glad to see you're enjoying this
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