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Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, [V0.9.7]

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:11 am
by Hetdegon
Noooo I loved the shield ;_; But well at least the psycho cannon looks fancy, but I haven't ever found it in a regular playthrough, so not sure what to say.

Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, [V0.9.7]

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:15 pm
by Triple S
Yeah, the shield was a little good. Will we still have a way to dash around like a moron? I think we all like to go fast.

Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, [V0.9.7]

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:03 pm
by Combine_Kegan
Triple S wrote:Yeah, the shield was a little good. Will we still have a way to dash around like a moron? I think we all like to go fast.


I definitely need to keep that in somewhere. Not sure WHERE though... I need to think it over

Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, [V0.9.7]

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:08 pm
by Cryomundus
Combine_Kegan wrote:
Triple S wrote:Yeah, the shield was a little good. Will we still have a way to dash around like a moron? I think we all like to go fast.


I definitely need to keep that in somewhere. Not sure WHERE though... I need to think it over


Wait, didn't enabling Shining Knight gave you the shield dash/bash (sans invincibility)? Or did you remove that at some point?

Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, [V0.9.7]

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:25 pm
by Triple S
Combine_Kegan wrote:
Triple S wrote:Yeah, the shield was a little good. Will we still have a way to dash around like a moron? I think we all like to go fast.


I definitely need to keep that in somewhere. Not sure WHERE though... I need to think it over


Well, since holding Fire down doesn't do anything now (since the wimpy throw is removed and the power throw was moved to the Power Sword's utility key function), perhaps it could be a quick-charging "slash-dash" attack that can be spammed? A single slash-dash wouldn't be terribly strong, but the hitbox could be far enough out that you'd "cut through" anything that'd die to it. However, because it's not that strong, any decent enemy (maybe Demons and up) will stop you in your tracks, and because you don't have a shield, you're still vulnerable to attacks while dashing.

The powered sword could just be one powerful, continuous thrust attack (with copious amounts of energy making you a living "Arcane Arrow"), AKA "Let's just Shinespark through everything!" It'd use a fair bit of energy per second, though. It'd be cool if it'd pierce anything the "outer hitbox" kills, but if it doesn't kill something (like, you find a Hell Knight), you collide with it and bounce off of them Pegasus Boots style, dealing an additional burst of damage to the enemy you hit. This impact would be accompanied by appropriate arcane energy effects and draining an extra chunk of meter, of course.


These are just ideas of course, and probably not balanced really. And well, you might have wanted to make the sword's attacks autofire, which I can definitely see and would put a dent in this plan.

Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, [V0.9.7]

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:23 am
by Combine_Kegan
Cryomundus wrote:
Combine_Kegan wrote:
Triple S wrote:Yeah, the shield was a little good. Will we still have a way to dash around like a moron? I think we all like to go fast.


I definitely need to keep that in somewhere. Not sure WHERE though... I need to think it over


Wait, didn't enabling Shining Knight gave you the shield dash/bash (sans invincibility)? Or did you remove that at some point?


It's still there, but Shining Knight is going to become a BFG Pickup. But I might change that out because...


Triple S wrote:
Combine_Kegan wrote:
Triple S wrote:The powered sword could just be one powerful, continuous thrust attack (with copious amounts of energy making you a living "Arcane Arrow"), AKA"Let's just Shinespark through everything!" It'd use a fair bit of energy per second, though. It'd be cool if it'd pierce anything the "outer hitbox" kills, but if it doesn't kill something (like, you find a Hell Knight), you collide with it and bounce off of them Pegasus Boots style, dealing an additional burst of damage to the enemy you hit. This impact would be accompanied by appropriate arcane energy effects and draining an extra chunk of meter, of course.


That is an excellent idea.

Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, [V0.9.7]

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:52 pm
by twinkieman93
Triple S wrote:
Combine_Kegan wrote:
Triple S wrote:The powered sword could just be one powerful, continuous thrust attack (with copious amounts of energy making you a living "Arcane Arrow"), AKA"Let's just Shinespark through everything!" It'd use a fair bit of energy per second, though. It'd be cool if it'd pierce anything the "outer hitbox" kills, but if it doesn't kill something (like, you find a Hell Knight), you collide with it and bounce off of them Pegasus Boots style, dealing an additional burst of damage to the enemy you hit. This impact would be accompanied by appropriate arcane energy effects and draining an extra chunk of meter, of course.


That is an excellent idea.[/quote]

Eh. I dunno. Unless he means "the powered sword's charge attack", I might just have misread it. But changing the powered sword form into a glorified extra attack rather than a true and separate form just kind of feels weird to me. :(

Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, [V0.9.7]

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:01 pm
by Hetdegon
Also its usefulness can be severely limited by certain maps, like getting stuck on detail geometry. Sounds like something that can only work as intended in some large open arena.

Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, [V0.9.7]

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:37 pm
by Triple S
twinkieman93 wrote:Eh. I dunno. Unless he means "the powered sword's charge attack", I might just have misread it. But changing the powered sword form into a glorified extra attack rather than a true and separate form just kind of feels weird to me. :(


Yeah, I meant the charge attack. It makes a bit more sense if you read the full post; the quoted text alone ends up a little garbled if you don't have the context, haha. I should have worded it better regardless.

Hetdegon wrote:Also its usefulness can be severely limited by certain maps, like getting stuck on detail geometry. Sounds like something that can only work as intended in some large open arena.


Yeah but the same goes for the shield charge, right? The invulnerability helped but you also could just keep the shield itself up. With good control you can steer it through hallways (especially since with my idea on how it'd handle collision, it wouldn't stop on walls, just tough enemies), or just use a quick burst of speed to plow through a group of enemies standing between you and a much better position to tackle enemies (it'd be real useful for escaping monster closet traps).

Shit, I could probably find some good uses for it. Oh hey, what if using it during Shining Knight would let you levitate if you held jump? Essentially letting you air-dash with it. That'd really be a shinespark, and since the mode is called "Shining Knight," it fits sorta!

Of course that'd break maps in so many fantastic ways. I'm basically just throwing random neat ideas out at this point, lol

Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, [V0.9.7]

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:27 pm
by Combine_Kegan
No levitation or flying. The super jump breaks enough maps as is.

Admittedly I've considered axing that jump too.

Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, [V0.9.7]

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:31 pm
by twinkieman93
Please don't axe things just because they're 2cool4school. Sequence breaking is part and parcel of some of the games this mod takes cues from(mostly Castlevania, of course), so much like how such mapbreaking functions were left in Metroid: Dreadnought I see no reason as to why you couldn't leave them in here. Let players decide whether they want to use them or not for nefarious purposes, I say.

Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, [V0.9.7]

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:44 pm
by Hetdegon
@Triple S :
Well, yeah, but the shield charge only consumed transient energy that's easy to recharge, unlike a whole special mode that you are probably going to need in a tight spot. I see your point, but I kinda feel it's a downgrade. Then again, despite my complaints, I trust Combine_Kegan to do it well, as he has proven to do with every change so far, just pointing out a possible downside to it.

@twinkieman93 and @Combine_Kegan:
I agree with what Twinkieman said, I play plenty of old maps with jump enabled just because I like to jump around and dodge stuff like that. My playstyle is kind of flashy, maybe I am too used to other games where such things are mandatory to progress. I already played Doom as intended for over 15 years, so it's not like I am robbing myself of the "real experience" at this point.
But even so, I always follow the intended path in maps because, honestly, what'd be the point otherwise? I don't get any fun or challenge if I just jump at the exit, if you get what I mean.

Of course that is, like, my opinion, so feel free to disregard at will. That said, I only use superjump as an evasive maneuver to draw enemy fire up high, so I won't miss it that much, but my point is that as a general thing you shouldn't axe features because people will cheat with them. That's on them, not you. It's not the same type of balance issue as "this weapon makes the game trivial" or so, you know.

Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, [V0.9.7]

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:43 pm
by Combine_Kegan
The shield may not be removed. Gauging the reaction of some folks and some mulling over, simply removing the shield is a horrible idea. So I'm going to be doing some heavy thinking and I'm fixing this shit

Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, [V0.9.7]

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:31 am
by Combine_Kegan
I'm not dead. Also yeah. the shield is staying, sorry for being such a pain in the ass about all this, have a screenshot and see how many new things you guys notice

Image

Re: GMOTA: Fantasy arcade action, [V0.9.7]

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:50 am
by Captain J
shield is now able to throw? now that's much overwhelming than infamous shield bashing.