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Biosyn wrote:Hexercise is being worked on? Sounds cool. And the above sprites look pretty darn good too.
But would this be workable with new map sets though? I've tried hexercise before but not Wrath of Cronos so if it has new maps, that'd be great.
keep in mind this is just a weapons set, though im with you on the map thing. also, this isn't an official collaboration with lloyd or thetis, though hopefully they'll both jump in to it too eventually.
Greetings, gentlemen.
Regarding your interest on maps for the game, please, allow me to point you to this post of mine in the Project Ideas forum in the hopes it may whet your interest. I have spoilered it because it is rather massive.
Resuming it to its key points, in case you lack the time to read through, it's a suggestion for a compatibility patch between Wrath of Cronos (with or without Hexercise) and Serpent Resurrection. As I explain in the aforementioned post, WoC/H has the most excellent gameplay among Hexen mods, while Serpent Resurrection has hands down the best maps made for the game (it helps that's a whopping megawad with lots of exploration.)
And it is my belief that making both mods work together would make a terrific gameplay experience: The best maps, with the best gameplay available. I also provide a link to Serpent Resurrection, in case you haven't heard of it.
Spoiler:
SallazarSpellcaster wrote:I would like to voice a mod idea that has been lurking within my thoughts for over a year now. This is a plea to modders, fans of Hexen, and fans of fantasy RPGs, with the hopes that it may pique your interest and, through your talent, become a reality.
Serpent Resurrection: Wrathful Edition!
Now, allow me to clarify: This is not so much a wholly new modification as it is a compatibility patch for two of the best mods ever created for the game Hexen. One of these being Serpent Resurrection, by TheUltimateDoomer and his crew; the other being Wrath of Cronos, by Thetis and his team.
About the mods (Spoilered to avoid clutter, and possible spoilers too)
In case you haven't played these two mods alone, I highly recommend you do so. They're both excellent staples of what can be accomplished with the GZDoom engine, and both are lots of fun to play through in their own way, plus a boon for any fantasy fans.
Created by TheUltimateDoomer, this mod has everything an awesome fantasy game should have: Dark caves, grim castles, terrifying bosses, awesome music. Just as Hexen was, SR is tailored to give the player freedom of exploration; being a non-linear adventure, you can go wherever you like whenever you like collecting keys, items, treasure and solving puzzles to advance through the story. The game implements an RPG system, making each character unique and every playthrough different. Gold dropped by monsters allows you to purchase items fit for your character and your own playstyle, allowing for a myriad of strategies and ways to tackle your opponents. You can waddle through watery caves, explore ancient temples, storm a castle and more.
The problem: Serpent Resurrection truly shines on the map design and monster placement departments, however its gameplay can become rather dull. The RPG system works really well, however some of its features make the game quite slow at times; since the monsters scale together with the player, whose level is capped at 20, even by the end of the game you don't feel like you have actually grown any stronger. Lowly enemies can kill you as easily at level 20 as they could at level one. Other features also make playing through this mod feel sluggish. Any character with a low Dexterity stat (and all characters start this way) can't jump. Quite literally, they can't jump; at most they can manage a wimpy 2 inches off the ground, a barely noticeable height. While this plays with an in-game mechanic (namely, Boots of Jumping) it feels forced on the player and turns navigating certain areas a chore, and that can drive players away from this mod. Another issue, is that spellcasting, which is done via scrolls, is limited to the players; the Mage class can cast every spell, while the Fighter can only cast two at most. A final problem: Firepower; towards the later areas of the game, only the Mage, Assassin and Cleric characters have any chance of survival, the Fighter's lack of ranged weapons make him unable to fight the hordes of flying opponents that he must face. While the weapon distinctions and magic restrictions work towards further differentiating characters, they feel, at times, more like punishment for picking a certain class rather than a distinction.
Whatever its shortcomings, this is quite easily the best map pack ever created for Hexen. It's large, architecturally impressive, and with awesome (and oftentimes deadly) surprises around every corner.
Created by Thetis, Wrath of Cronos is one of the best gameplay mods created for Hexen, and for any Doom game. Based on, and improving Serpent Resurrection's RPG system, Wrath of Cronos brings back the feel of empowerment and growth from RPGs such as Diablo.
Every character class is completely unique and wildly different from another. Each class has its own set of skills related to his abilities. The Mage wields arcane magicks and devastating spells to wreak havoc; the Cleric can heal and shield himself from damage, and invoke holy might to smite his foes; the Fighter can rush into the heart of battle and pummel everything to a pulp, soaking damage like a sponge; the Hunter is a master of traps, stealth and skillful shots, and the Necromancer can decimate his enemies with his undead pets and powerful curses.
As you level up, you feel progressively more powerful, as your stats increase and your skills become more powerful. Monsters grow with you as well, but even then, they are barely a match for a Meteor strike or a well placed hammer to the head. Strategy is still necessary, however: If you go into a room, spells blazing, you'll die. Become overwhelmed by enemies and you die. Things can kill you almost as easily as you can kill them, if you let them do so, making for a hectic, frantic and fast-paced killfest.
The problem: Lack of maps. As simple as that, many fans of the Doom games are turned away by the comparatively stale environments of Hexen. Even though map packs have been released, such as Scourge of Viserus, or Tower of Chaos, they do not make use of the full potential of Wrath of Cronos' RPG system; either they are too short (only one hub long) or do not possess any secret area markers. And while the mod has been made compatible for Strife, Doom and Heretic, even the best maps for these games fail to capture the eerie, gothic charm Hexen has.
Why should this be done
If you know about both Serpent Resurrection and Wrath of Cronos, fantastic! If not, please do read the description above.
Spoiler:
With that out of the way, I hope you can see why making both these mods work together would make for an incredible experience. The intricate and exciting maps of Serpent Resurrection offer plenty in the ways of challenge, puzzle solving and item hunting. Its architecture make for excellent fantasy landscapes and interesting places to explore, and its tight corridors, large open fields, caves etc. are the perfect setting for lots of awesome spellcasting. Wrath of Cronos' fast paced gameplay, its feeling of empowerment as you level up, the joy of finding an artifact to make you stronger, and the excitement of seeing your character grow stronger with every level make for incredible RPG gameplay, offering a ton of possibilities to make your character unique.
Combine excellent map design, with terrific gameplay, and you get what could possibly be one of the most entertaining mods ever.
The assets are done, the monsters are done, the coding is done. What is left, is to make these mods work together. What I am suggesting, is not a full merge of both games' features (more on that later, though) but a patch that overrides the RPG and weapons system in Serpent Resurrection and allows Wrath of Cronos to take precedence for leveling, monsters, spells and whatnot. Of course, such a patch would effectively negate certain elements of Serpent Resurrection, namely its spells and certain items, but from a gameplay perspective, it may be worth it. Unless a full merging is done.
A full merge would entail further coding, and possibly even some map editing. This would imply, as I envision it, implementing Serpent Resurrection's red and yellow mana into Wrath of Cronos so it used those types of ammo for its extra weapons. The spells from Serpent Resurrection could be used as really powerful spells (as they actually are) made to drain a large amount of Magick from WoC's system. 5 maps would have to be edited, the ones that have shops, to add one extra shop: An artifact shop; instead of having artifacts from Wrath of Cronos dropping randomly from boss monsters, let them be purchased with gold from Serpent Resurrection, that'd give further incentives for picking up and saving up the stuff, plus it'd allow players to play ahead. About the weapons, another addition could be made: A weapon shop; this would allow Serpent's weapons to stay in the game instead of being replaced with Wrath of Cronos' armament, WoC's weapons being sold in the weapons shop, restricted to the character that can wield them, as armor items are in Serpent Resurrection. A few other modifications may be required, but that's pretty much the gist of it.
The legalities on both mods do not state that they cannot be unmodified or unaltered, so this project should be feasible without explicit permission from the authors, with credit given where it is due of course.
Plus, the name "Serpent Resurrection: Wrathful Edition" is kind of catchy.
Why can't I do it
I have tried. Oh, believe me I have tried, but a mere look at Serpent Resurrection and Wrath of Cronos' scripting made me well aware of my inadequacy as anything related to mods. I lack the required skill, even the most basic notion about ACS and DECORATE that would be necessary to even think about making such a compatibility patch, and sadly, life outside of Cronos keeps me from having the time necessary to learn how to code.
The problems I see with the coding, are the scripted events in Serpent Resurrection that depend on a certain character class; for instance, a Fighter would be able to do one thing because he's strong but the Mage wouldn't because he's weak. I believe this can be surmounted by adding an extra "class" dummy to the scripted events, that was usable with the WoC characters. Again, unless a full merging is done and SR's assets completely replaced or merged with those in WoC.
Tl;dr
Serpent Resurrection has incredible maps but its gameplay can feel dull at times.
Wrath of Cronos has fantastic gameplay but lacks interesting Hexen maps to play it with.
Making them work together would make one of the most awesome mods, ever. Alas, I cannot do it because I lack any modding skills whatsoever.
And this is my mod idea. I hope you find it to be interesting and worthy of seeing the light of day, and if anything, do try both Serpent Resurrection and Wrath of Cronos. You'll have fun with them.
Returning to the topic at hand: The Vorpal Sword sprites are plain awesome, especially the hand; it is terrifically well done, the way it holds the sword and the gauntlet overlapping.
Regarding the Necromancer, a dagger is a neat idea. Personally however, I find the scythe to be more fitting for the character, since in Hexen II's words, he may use it to "reap" his foes, and perhaps that could play on Hexercise's mechanics.
UNLESS! The dagger had a chance to spawn life-giving hearts a la Blood. You know, tearing them off of enemies, like a sacrificial dagger. Now that'd be bloody rad.
Biosyn wrote:Hexercise is being worked on? Sounds cool. And the above sprites look pretty darn good too.
But would this be workable with new map sets though? I've tried hexercise before but not Wrath of Cronos so if it has new maps, that'd be great.
keep in mind this is just a weapons set, though im with you on the map thing. also, this isn't an official collaboration with lloyd or thetis, though hopefully they'll both jump in to it too eventually.
Greetings, gentlemen.
Regarding your interest on maps for the game, please, allow me to point you to this post of mine in the Project Ideas forum in the hopes it may whet your interest. I have spoilered it because it is rather massive.
Resuming it to its key points, in case you lack the time to read through, it's a suggestion for a compatibility patch between Wrath of Cronos (with or without Hexercise) and Serpent Resurrection. As I explain in the aforementioned post, WoC/H has the most excellent gameplay among Hexen mods, while Serpent Resurrection has hands down the best maps made for the game (it helps that's a whopping megawad with lots of exploration.)
And it is my belief that making both mods work together would make a terrific gameplay experience: The best maps, with the best gameplay available. I also provide a link to Serpent Resurrection, in case you haven't heard of it.
Spoiler:
SallazarSpellcaster wrote:I would like to voice a mod idea that has been lurking within my thoughts for over a year now. This is a plea to modders, fans of Hexen, and fans of fantasy RPGs, with the hopes that it may pique your interest and, through your talent, become a reality.
Serpent Resurrection: Wrathful Edition!
Now, allow me to clarify: This is not so much a wholly new modification as it is a compatibility patch for two of the best mods ever created for the game Hexen. One of these being Serpent Resurrection, by TheUltimateDoomer and his crew; the other being Wrath of Cronos, by Thetis and his team.
About the mods (Spoilered to avoid clutter, and possible spoilers too)
In case you haven't played these two mods alone, I highly recommend you do so. They're both excellent staples of what can be accomplished with the GZDoom engine, and both are lots of fun to play through in their own way, plus a boon for any fantasy fans.
Created by TheUltimateDoomer, this mod has everything an awesome fantasy game should have: Dark caves, grim castles, terrifying bosses, awesome music. Just as Hexen was, SR is tailored to give the player freedom of exploration; being a non-linear adventure, you can go wherever you like whenever you like collecting keys, items, treasure and solving puzzles to advance through the story. The game implements an RPG system, making each character unique and every playthrough different. Gold dropped by monsters allows you to purchase items fit for your character and your own playstyle, allowing for a myriad of strategies and ways to tackle your opponents. You can waddle through watery caves, explore ancient temples, storm a castle and more.
The problem: Serpent Resurrection truly shines on the map design and monster placement departments, however its gameplay can become rather dull. The RPG system works really well, however some of its features make the game quite slow at times; since the monsters scale together with the player, whose level is capped at 20, even by the end of the game you don't feel like you have actually grown any stronger. Lowly enemies can kill you as easily at level 20 as they could at level one. Other features also make playing through this mod feel sluggish. Any character with a low Dexterity stat (and all characters start this way) can't jump. Quite literally, they can't jump; at most they can manage a wimpy 2 inches off the ground, a barely noticeable height. While this plays with an in-game mechanic (namely, Boots of Jumping) it feels forced on the player and turns navigating certain areas a chore, and that can drive players away from this mod. Another issue, is that spellcasting, which is done via scrolls, is limited to the players; the Mage class can cast every spell, while the Fighter can only cast two at most. A final problem: Firepower; towards the later areas of the game, only the Mage, Assassin and Cleric characters have any chance of survival, the Fighter's lack of ranged weapons make him unable to fight the hordes of flying opponents that he must face. While the weapon distinctions and magic restrictions work towards further differentiating characters, they feel, at times, more like punishment for picking a certain class rather than a distinction.
Whatever its shortcomings, this is quite easily the best map pack ever created for Hexen. It's large, architecturally impressive, and with awesome (and oftentimes deadly) surprises around every corner.
Created by Thetis, Wrath of Cronos is one of the best gameplay mods created for Hexen, and for any Doom game. Based on, and improving Serpent Resurrection's RPG system, Wrath of Cronos brings back the feel of empowerment and growth from RPGs such as Diablo.
Every character class is completely unique and wildly different from another. Each class has its own set of skills related to his abilities. The Mage wields arcane magicks and devastating spells to wreak havoc; the Cleric can heal and shield himself from damage, and invoke holy might to smite his foes; the Fighter can rush into the heart of battle and pummel everything to a pulp, soaking damage like a sponge; the Hunter is a master of traps, stealth and skillful shots, and the Necromancer can decimate his enemies with his undead pets and powerful curses.
As you level up, you feel progressively more powerful, as your stats increase and your skills become more powerful. Monsters grow with you as well, but even then, they are barely a match for a Meteor strike or a well placed hammer to the head. Strategy is still necessary, however: If you go into a room, spells blazing, you'll die. Become overwhelmed by enemies and you die. Things can kill you almost as easily as you can kill them, if you let them do so, making for a hectic, frantic and fast-paced killfest.
The problem: Lack of maps. As simple as that, many fans of the Doom games are turned away by the comparatively stale environments of Hexen. Even though map packs have been released, such as Scourge of Viserus, or Tower of Chaos, they do not make use of the full potential of Wrath of Cronos' RPG system; either they are too short (only one hub long) or do not possess any secret area markers. And while the mod has been made compatible for Strife, Doom and Heretic, even the best maps for these games fail to capture the eerie, gothic charm Hexen has.
Why should this be done
If you know about both Serpent Resurrection and Wrath of Cronos, fantastic! If not, please do read the description above.
Spoiler:
With that out of the way, I hope you can see why making both these mods work together would make for an incredible experience. The intricate and exciting maps of Serpent Resurrection offer plenty in the ways of challenge, puzzle solving and item hunting. Its architecture make for excellent fantasy landscapes and interesting places to explore, and its tight corridors, large open fields, caves etc. are the perfect setting for lots of awesome spellcasting. Wrath of Cronos' fast paced gameplay, its feeling of empowerment as you level up, the joy of finding an artifact to make you stronger, and the excitement of seeing your character grow stronger with every level make for incredible RPG gameplay, offering a ton of possibilities to make your character unique.
Combine excellent map design, with terrific gameplay, and you get what could possibly be one of the most entertaining mods ever.
The assets are done, the monsters are done, the coding is done. What is left, is to make these mods work together. What I am suggesting, is not a full merge of both games' features (more on that later, though) but a patch that overrides the RPG and weapons system in Serpent Resurrection and allows Wrath of Cronos to take precedence for leveling, monsters, spells and whatnot. Of course, such a patch would effectively negate certain elements of Serpent Resurrection, namely its spells and certain items, but from a gameplay perspective, it may be worth it. Unless a full merging is done.
A full merge would entail further coding, and possibly even some map editing. This would imply, as I envision it, implementing Serpent Resurrection's red and yellow mana into Wrath of Cronos so it used those types of ammo for its extra weapons. The spells from Serpent Resurrection could be used as really powerful spells (as they actually are) made to drain a large amount of Magick from WoC's system. 5 maps would have to be edited, the ones that have shops, to add one extra shop: An artifact shop; instead of having artifacts from Wrath of Cronos dropping randomly from boss monsters, let them be purchased with gold from Serpent Resurrection, that'd give further incentives for picking up and saving up the stuff, plus it'd allow players to play ahead. About the weapons, another addition could be made: A weapon shop; this would allow Serpent's weapons to stay in the game instead of being replaced with Wrath of Cronos' armament, WoC's weapons being sold in the weapons shop, restricted to the character that can wield them, as armor items are in Serpent Resurrection. A few other modifications may be required, but that's pretty much the gist of it.
The legalities on both mods do not state that they cannot be unmodified or unaltered, so this project should be feasible without explicit permission from the authors, with credit given where it is due of course.
Plus, the name "Serpent Resurrection: Wrathful Edition" is kind of catchy.
Why can't I do it
I have tried. Oh, believe me I have tried, but a mere look at Serpent Resurrection and Wrath of Cronos' scripting made me well aware of my inadequacy as anything related to mods. I lack the required skill, even the most basic notion about ACS and DECORATE that would be necessary to even think about making such a compatibility patch, and sadly, life outside of Cronos keeps me from having the time necessary to learn how to code.
The problems I see with the coding, are the scripted events in Serpent Resurrection that depend on a certain character class; for instance, a Fighter would be able to do one thing because he's strong but the Mage wouldn't because he's weak. I believe this can be surmounted by adding an extra "class" dummy to the scripted events, that was usable with the WoC characters. Again, unless a full merging is done and SR's assets completely replaced or merged with those in WoC.
Tl;dr
Serpent Resurrection has incredible maps but its gameplay can feel dull at times.
Wrath of Cronos has fantastic gameplay but lacks interesting Hexen maps to play it with.
Making them work together would make one of the most awesome mods, ever. Alas, I cannot do it because I lack any modding skills whatsoever.
And this is my mod idea. I hope you find it to be interesting and worthy of seeing the light of day, and if anything, do try both Serpent Resurrection and Wrath of Cronos. You'll have fun with them.
Returning to the topic at hand: The Vorpal Sword sprites are plain awesome, especially the hand; it is terrifically well done, the way it holds the sword and the gauntlet overlapping.
Regarding the Necromancer, a dagger is a neat idea. Personally however, I find the scythe to be more fitting for the character, since in Hexen II's words, he may use it to "reap" his foes, and perhaps that could play on Hexercise's mechanics.
UNLESS! The dagger had a chance to spawn life-giving hearts a la Blood. You know, tearing them off of enemies, like a sacrificial dagger. Now that'd be bloody rad.
Firstly, i strongly approve of the merging of the projects into a mega hexen wad. Secondly... The scythe sucks health with each attack, and if im right can suck mana too; my idea is that the dagger would be lighter damage, but faster and more characteristic of the mage, allowing for more rapid mana and health absorption. whether or not it becomes anything is up to Crazy, im just making this as a proposal of an idea. certainly noone will be changing anything on a whim. I also would love something like that, but its not my mod unfortunately.
Crudux Cruo
"It's howdy doody time kiddies, the bad man is here."
Beat the game with the Mage today, some things I saw:
1. Arc of Death Alt-Fire does not get buffed by stat points, needs to be fixed.
2. An existing bug with WoC involving the Fade skill, it does not work in the Doom IWADs. It turns on and off right away on use, maybe you can fix this for this version of the MOD?
3. The Slot 6 staff weapon could use a small buff to it's alt-fire damage.
by SallazarSpellcaster » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:21 pm 
