XRe-GEN aka Crazy Doom (Beta 3)

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Re: Crazy Doom (Beta v0.95 Rev 2)

Postby Endless123 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:06 pm

Well what a night lol

I spent the last hours trying to fix things in my mod and here is the results :

1 - SoulSphere and MegaSphere returned

2 - Completely redone skill difficulties, now each skills has 2 mod, normal and challenge where monsters are faster

Normal Hell : Same as "Hit Me Plenty" difficulty
Normal Hell - Challenge : Same as "Hit Me Plenty" but with + FastMonsters enabled

Hard As Hell : Same as the UV difficulty except monsters have double hit points
Hard As Hell - Challenge : UV difficulty + monsters have double hit points and the +FastMonsters is enabled

Nightmare In Hell : Well, it's Nightmare difficulty with monsters hp doubled, damage doubled and +FastMonsters enabled
Ultimate Nightmare : Same as Nightmare but monsters have 3 times their normal hit points.

Note that like Doom without mod the cheats are enabled except for the Nightmare difficulty as usual

3 - All weapons are back to a more reasonable attack damage, no more 9999 for the BFG as well. - It's normal damage with a little boost nothing too high.

4 - I removed the invisibility perk

5 - Jump is back to default, no more mega-jump

6 - I finally solved the oversized sprite problem with candles and shells

7 - Minors adjustments to some animations like the exploding barrels

8 - Normal shotgun has the pumping sound at the right place

9 - No more unlimited ammo for the shotgun, ssg and chaingun( it wasn't intended to have those weapons unlimited ammo, i forgot to add an A_TakeInventory line for those weapons. Now it's fixed)

I kept the hp/armor regeneration because i think it's part of the identity of my mod. For me it's like removing the gore out of Brutal Doom, makes no sense and Brutal Doom wouldn't be the same without gore.

That's all i did so far. In case someone is interested here is the link to the latest update

http://www.mediafire.com/download/qqo6k ... 95Rev2.pk3

Till next time, have a nice day :) (or night or both :p )
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Re: Crazy Doom (Beta v0.9)

Postby scroton » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:40 pm

I like the regenerating health and armor and health and armor received from monsters, that can work as a potential base to crank the Crazy in Crazy Doom up to 11.

First give more ammo, both from drops from ALL monsters as well as map-placed pickups, and make guns more consistent in their alt/primary fire behavior.

Then make enemies summon more enemies as part of their attacks. Lesser tier as well as occasionally higher tier. Make them respawn after death at all difficulty levels, probably through a_spawnitemex rather than the normal respawn route so you have more control over what they do. Make certain ones (or all of them) create more copies of themselves when they resurrect. After 5 minutes in a map there should be at least 4x more active monsters than the map started with. All monsters should have a random chance to turn into other monsters on death rather than simply dying, with "other monsters" including cyberdemon tier enemies.

Since you increased every monster's health, increase the player's health too. Then you can give all projectile attacks massive explosive damage in amounts that will toss the player and enemies around the map like popcorn in a kettle. Make sure to give everything +PUSHABLE for this to work. This will also cause more infighting among monsters which is always a plus and won't make it too much easier for the player since they will end up spawning new monsters as they infight. Have summoned monsters clear their target in a dummy see state they only enter when first spawn so they attack the player rather than their owner's target and will still do stuff before seeing the player. You could also decrease everything's mass instead or in conjunction with high explosive damage to have more motion.

In fact, go ahead and add masses and +PUSHABLE to all decorations as well, there should be candelabras and tech torches and guys on spikes flying all over the place as well. Consider giving the decorations large amounts of speed (>20) and having them a_wander around the map as well. Maybe give them the ability to spawn additional candelabras that +NOCLIP and have a limited ability to attack the player.

Some monsters should use variable sprites. Have an imp that randomly cycles through all the imp variants on realm 667 as it moves around. It's attack depends on what imp variant it happens to be when it decides to attack. Do similar things for other enemies that have variants up on realm667 or elsewhere. Maybe have projectiles that do the same thing; a cyberdemon rocket could end up as an imp fireball or a bfg shot when it finally hits something, or rarely spawn a spider mastermind.

Maybe switch out some of the powerups that aren't that useful now like the radiation suit (since floors don't damage) and the invisibility sphere for other ones; there are a number of predefined ones you could use but there are other hacky ways to make additional ones if those don't suit your needs. Make sure to make whatever powerups you use have a variable length with no warning as to when they'll cut out (like the screen flashing.) Off the top of my head you could accomplish this by having the powerups themselves have a long duration but also put a_jumpifinventory jumps in the player actor states when they have the powerup that lead to a 0 tic state with a small chance to have to the powerup removed. Experiment with how often the initial jump is called and the chance to have the powerup removed each time that state is entered until you have a roughly equal chance to have a powerup last 5 seconds or a full minute. Players should have no ability to accurately gauge how long any particular powerup will last.

Overall the spawn and respawn rate should be fast enough and the combined additional aspects should be weird and unpredictable enough that each medium-sized or larger map becomes a confusing speedrunning hell where you must continually push through the hordes of various monsters to get enough health and ammo to avoid death from the ones spawning behind you. God help you if you have to revisit areas, and if you have a slower computer you are as much racing against a crash as you are death through normal means.

I'm sure you can think of many other quirky things to add, but hopefully this will be a good start or at least help give you ideas that you think would fit.
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Re: Crazy Doom (Beta v0.9)

Postby scroton » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:00 pm

Two more quick ideas:

Have a certain monster that shoots revenant (or other tracing) projectiles that have both +NOCLIP and +RIPPER (untested if they will work in conjunction, but give it a go) so that they become a high priority monster for the player since their projectiles will remain on the map for the duration of the map (at least until they hit a +DONTRIP monster, if you decide to put one in) and will have to be continually dodged by the player without full knowledge of where they are or when they will come through the wall (or which wall) and have to be dodged yet again. This will allow for additional strategy since the player that can successfully dodge them continually could potentially lead them through other monsters and if there are enough of them the could be quite deadly even to higher tier monsters.

You could also have the player fire projectiles that do the same thing but will give the player immunity to their damage type. IF you want make them pass through the player with +THRUSPECIES so the player isn't thrown around by them when they hit him but that seems boring. The player having to lead their projectiles through enemies would be an interesting gameplay mechanic. EDIT: you could recreate the D2 Hammerdin this way.

The second idea is that you should endeavor to replace many of the monster sounds with completely random ones in no way related to Doom. British comedy (a la The Sky May Be) is a good start but you should go deeper and start getting stuff like people screaming and fighting on reality television, children's television speaking to the player in a baby voice and asking him to point to the one that's a circle and various fetish videos in different languages so baron recolors can scream about how they're about to cum from tickling as the player fires at them with a chaingun. There really is no limit to the sources you could use for sound.
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Re: Crazy Doom (Beta v0.9)

Postby Endless123 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:08 pm

That's some ... crazy ideas you have there lol. Good ones of course but maybe i forgot to mention i'm kinda noob at modding doom so most of those ideas will have to wait a bit because i'm not even close to have the knowledge to accomplished all of your ideas.

About the +THRUSPECIES, wasn't it the very thing that was a major problem with many mods using GZDoom and ZDoom? In some mods i'm playing the +THRUSPECIES is commented (like this "//+THRUSPECIES") meaning it has been disabled and each time i removed the // and played the mod with +THRUSPECIES enabled the game refused to start with an error message in the starting console. So i don't think i'll be using it until i know more about the usage of +THRUSPECIES.

Of course your ideas are very interesting but i have to keep in mind it's not every players that would like that kind of things in a mod. I'd like to keep it balanced and i'm still not sure how to get it done without changing too many things. About the sounds, i'm not really equipped to take simples and then process them. Too bad i don't have a studio at my disposal lol.

The idea of enemies summoning other enemies is a really good idea in theory but beyond my limited skills at the moment. No to mention it could seriously make even the easiest difficulty level a real mess and overwhelmed the player as if he was playing at nightmare and i don't think most players would like it. However it's a good idea and i'll keep it in mind.

Now for monsters transforming into other monsters or cloning themselves, well as for the previous idea it's great in theory but in practice things could go really wrong specially because as i said above i still don't have the knowledge and if i try without knowing what i'm doing it will ends up to become a garbage mod and of course i don't want that. But again, i'll keep this idea in mind.

Variable powerups duration, that's definitively an idea i will dig, i'm not sure however of the code lines for that one. The artifacts lump will surely have to be modified but i will try this one. If it works you'll be in the credits :D

Thanks for bringing those ideas and suggestions. I appreciate it :)
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Re: Crazy Doom (Beta v0.9)

Postby scroton » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:58 pm

Endless123 wrote:That's some ... crazy ideas you have there lol. Good ones of course but maybe i forgot to mention i'm kinda noob at modding doom so most of those ideas will have to wait a bit because i'm not even close to have the knowledge to accomplished all of your ideas.

...


The idea of enemies summoning other enemies is a really good idea in theory but beyond my limited skills at the moment. No to mention it could seriously make even the easiest difficulty level a real mess and overwhelmed the player as if he was playing at nightmare and i don't think most players would like it. However it's a good idea and i'll keep it in mind.

Now for monsters transforming into other monsters or cloning themselves, well as for the previous idea it's great in theory but in practice things could go really wrong specially because as i said above i still don't have the knowledge and if i try without knowing what i'm doing it will ends up to become a garbage mod and of course i don't want that. But again, i'll keep this idea in mind.


Trying to do stuff you don't really know how is how you learn. Use the wiki, pay attention to errors at startup (even ones that don't prevent the mod from running), google "your problem" zdoom when stuff doesn't work if the wiki doesn't answer your question since most things have been answered once before in the forums somewhere. If there's stuff you're not sure will work, keep a separate file for working on that portion and only put it in the release when you are sure it works.

For the summoning other monsters bit having monsters drop ammo and health like you have some monsters already do would balance out additional summoned monsters (if that was a direction you wanted to take the mod.)

Endless123 wrote:About the +THRUSPECIES, wasn't it the very thing that was a major problem with many mods using GZDoom and ZDoom? In some mods i'm playing the +THRUSPECIES is commented (like this "//+THRUSPECIES") meaning it has been disabled and each time i removed the // and played the mod with +THRUSPECIES enabled the game refused to start with an error message in the starting console. So i don't think i'll be using it until i know more about the usage of +THRUSPECIES.


AFAIK there are no outstanding issues with +THRUSPECIES, and I've never had any issues with it, but there could be issues when combined with other things. It's pretty simple though; just put the +THRUSPECIES flag on the thing you want to be able to move through species. Species are any actor involved with inheritance to all other such actors (eg ACTOR 1 : ACTOR2, ACTOR3 : ACTOR1, ACTOR 4: ACTOR 3, all actors are considered the same species) or through use of the Species property (Species "SpeciesName" is the nomenclature.) For dissimilar actors like a projectile and a monster you will want to use the Species property. If you want a monster without the thru species ability to be unaffected by monsters of the same species passing through it (since if another actor passes through such a monster it can cause the monster to get stuck temporarily) then give that monster the +THRUSPECIES tag as well as the +DONTOVERLAP tag.

I'd like to keep it balanced and i'm still not sure how to get it done without changing too many things.


It's always possible to balance stuff, even really off the wall stuff.

About the sounds, i'm not really equipped to take simples and then process them. Too bad i don't have a studio at my disposal lol.


Go download audacity here. Then you can get audio directly from youtube, probably the easiest way will be this.

To get audio from downloaded videos you will need a program to rip the audio file from the video file, but there are many such freeware programs out there.


Also I don't know if you have a credits section in the file itself or I've just missed it in the posts somewhere, but you will generally want to have a section with credits for the resources you use, preferably both in your forum post and in a text file inside the file itself. You'll have to read the credits sections for other projects to get the proper list of who to credit, because generally most authors will use at least some resources made by other people. So, for instance, if you used stuff from Brutal Doom, rather than just crediting Sgt. Mark IV you would go through the credits.txt provided with the mod to find the original authors of each specific resource you are using.

Spoiler: Brutal Doom Credits


One more thing, you can use spoilers as I have above to compress text under headers for ease of reading while still keeping all information. Most mod authors use them (I believe 5 is the limit per post) in the OP of a project thread to keep all relevant information within that post but still easy to read. Such things might include mod summaries, recent changes, past versions, credits lists, or anything else that would benefit from being in the OP post but might take up some space otherwise. The format for spoilers is as follows:

Code: Select allExpand view
[spoiler=SPOILER_TITLE]Text contained within spoiler[/spoiler]
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Re: Crazy Doom (Beta v0.9)

Postby Endless123 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:50 pm

Great thanks man that will really help me in the future :D I didn't know about extracting sounds out of youtube videos but i'll will try that's for sure :D Let's hope it will not trigger the damn content ID bot that screwing things all over the place since youtube added it.

Anyway enough babbling for me, time to learn stuff :p

Thanks again :)
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Re: Crazy Doom (Beta v0.9)

Postby Minigunner » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:01 pm

I think I'll address the underlying issue here: that you copied all the actor definitions over from zdoom.pk3 and directly modified them. While it still works (ZDoom just uses the class duplicate in the mod and throws an error stating that there is more than one actor using the name "DoomImp", for example), it's definitely not the best way to modify existing classes. What you do is you replace the actor with the keyword "replaces", which is used like this: "<Modified Actor> replaces <Original Actor>", or "<Modified Actor> : <Original Actor> replaces <Original Actor>" if you want to inherit from the replaced actor. If you use the latter, you can cut out the unmodified properties (and the DoomEdNum) and not only would ZDoom not spit out errors, editing would be a lot easier.

Also, if you're gonna stick with the Brutal Doom sprites, please edit the weapon DECORATE to suit the sprites and delete all the sprites you're not gonna use. At the moment, they're just shoehorned in, and that kinda makes the animations all derpy.

Edit: Also, This screenshot alone addresses two problems with the fullscreen HUD, namely that 1) it doesn't scale (this oughta help you with that), and 2) you're using a HUD weapon sprite for an icon (HUD weapons have a different offset than pickups do).
Last edited by Minigunner on Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crazy Doom (Beta v0.9)

Postby TheMightyHeracross » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:05 pm

And you haven't responded to my question about credits because...? :?
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Re: Crazy Doom (Beta v0.9)

Postby Endless123 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:44 pm

@Minigunner : I'm well aware of my lack of knowledge for modding doom via gzdoom/zdoom port. The only experiences i had before doing this was modding games like Diablo 2, Sacred(not really successful), NWN and Doom 3. I have to admit i overestimated my ability to mod the old doom. When i started my mod i didn't know what DECORATE was doing and the coding i know is really different from the coding for doom. I'm still in the process of learning how to get the things done the right way.

Thanks for your advises i will follow them :)

@ TheMightyHeracross : Forgive my question but what part of my mod belongs to you? I based my mod from Brutal Doom for sprites and sounds but all the rest is basic codes in the gzdoom.pk3 file i modified. Of course i'm not aware of every authors in the credits for Brutal Doom but you are not on the list scroton provided but of course if any part(s) of my mod belongs to you tell me which one and i'll be more than happy to give you credits for it :)
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Re: Crazy Doom (Beta v0.9)

Postby TheMightyHeracross » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:42 am

I myself have nothing in your wad. However, for example, DoomNukem is not credited for his sprites, and who made the shotgun shells? People put work into their sprites, you know. They'd appreciate being recognized for it.
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Re: Crazy Doom (Beta v0.9)

Postby Endless123 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:32 am

Which sprites belong to DoomNukem? The only thing i could see that might belong to him is one of the sprites i used from SigFloyd's Brutal Doom version - i'm not aware of every authors of every particles of the game and i must admit i should have done a better search for the credits and be assure i will put a full credit list for the next update.
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Re: Crazy Doom (Beta v0.9)

Postby Toberone » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:41 am

Both of the shotguns are dooks. They have made a lot of recent appearances.
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Re: Crazy Doom (Beta v0.9)

Postby Endless123 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:42 am

Thanks for the info, i will add DoomNukem in the credits along with those scroton provided me. Be assure they will all appear on the tittle page of my mod.

Let me know if there is anyone else's work in my mod, i don't want to forget anyone in the credits.

@Minigunner : The instructions for the HUD aren't working with forcescale neither than with fullscreenoffsets. Obviously i'm doing something wrong. Is there another way to do this?

EDIT : Credits list added to first post

EDIT2 : It looks like the HUD is only working at a resolution of 1024x768@60 refresh rate and with "stretch fullscreen hud" is enabled in the hud menu options. I don't know for widescreen though since i don't have a widescreen monitor to do tests.
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Re: Crazy Doom (Beta v0.9)

Postby Master of Disasters » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:26 pm

Some of you guys are being a bit antagonistic, and The Masters of Insanity shouldn't have been so harsh, though I can see how constructive criticism can be difficult when there isn't much of a constructed product, I know I wouldn't have been able to do it, it's just so dumbfounding that it leaves you speechless. I in no way think this is a good mod, but that does not mean that it's impossible to salvage.

Endless123, it's obvious that you don't know what you're doing; the sprite offsets are wrong, the wrong sprites are being used, and the coding is all wrong. It is also very easy to miss your blurb about needing help, I know I missed it the first time. You should try looking through the Zdoom Wiki if you haven't done so yet, and download a mod (preferably not Brutal Doom as Sargent Mark is terrible at making legible code), and experiment with it, look at it, tweak it, and see what happens, it's quite fun when you make something act so wrong it's funny.

Criticisms I have with the weapons are that they feel like they've been duct taped together, the shotgun can fire bfg balls, why? Think of Russian Overkill (I'm not expecting you to pull something like that off mind you), those weapons are crazy in a way that makes sense, the shotgun can fire spent shells as an altfire. It also feels pointless, why grab the BFG when the shotgun can do that, why get the rocket launcher when the minigun can fire rockets. The code is also quite butchered.

If need be, I can help you learn how to make a proper wad, I may not be a big name guy here, but I am quite skilled at DECORATE. And if you do accept my help, I'm saying it right now, I will NOT make the mod for you.
Last edited by Master of Disasters on Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Crazy Doom (Beta v0.9)

Postby edward850 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:52 pm

Master of Disasters wrote:Some of you guys are being a bit antagonistic, and The Masters of Insanity shouldn't have been so harsh,

I'm starting to get really confused by this statement. As far as anybody will let on, we were harsh because we didn't tell the mod author that he is the best mod maker of all time and his mod is the pinnacle of mods.
Okay, tad exaggeration, but someone needs to fill me in as to what was actually harsh about said blind review of said mod.
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