XRe-GEN aka Crazy Doom (Beta 3)

[edward850]

So we have a short list short video 1 hour long video of grievances with your mod.

[TheDarkArchon]

Goddamn, I wish I could say I was drunk when we recorded this. My commentary is seriously awful and I apologise to anyone who had to listen to it.

[TheMightyHeracross]

Credits?

[Ethril]

*snip for rudeness*

[wildweasel]

(Eh, since Ethril removed his comment, I don't feel it's fair to leave it quoted here. Problem solved, I figure.)

[Ethril]

This comment...miiiight be going a bit far.

Ach, you're right. My thought process is a bit screwy right now. Should I delete it, or...?

edit: i keep trying to correct it but it's just turning into a mess so i'm just gonna nuke it now

[Endless123]

So we have a short list short video 1 hour long video of grievances with your mod.

Well i'm honored someone wasted time recording a co-op game for a mod that wasn't whatsoever created for a co-op game.

And let me enlighten you for the few things you missed in my precious posts.

First, i already mentioned in my previous posts(that you clearly haven't bothered to read obviously) that the is a regeneration of both hp and armor for EACH ACTION YOU MAKE. Meaning when you walk/run/shoot/stop shooting etc.

Second, I also clearly mentioned in my previous posts all about the secondary attack i put for each weapon but again since you didn't bothered to read them you don't know.

Third, I know it's far from perfect but it's so easy to make critics about a mod and NOT proposing solutions or suggestions about what should be done and what should be left behind.

Fourth, I also mentioned in my previous posts i needed help to balance my mod ... and what did you do ? You made a video playing a co-op game for a mod that was created FOR SINGLE GAME ONLY and even worse, you didn't make any suggestions about how to correct things you don't like.

Fifth, you mentioned many times in your video that you didn't see why i called it Crazy Doom. Here is why, it's because of all the secondary attacks that aren't supposed to be present on those weapons and that's why i called it Crazy Doom. Again if you had bother to read my previous post you will have easily guessed but again you didn't so...

Sixth, the jump ... it's an other reason why i called it Crazy Doom, if you don't like to jump that high why don't just disabling the jump?

Seventh, the shotgun shells ... first of all they aren't mine, i haven't created those shells and i don't understand why it's displaying like that, why do you think i said i needed help with my mod? I'm trying to solve this but you are not helping if you don't tell me HOW to solve this. If you don't know then we are 2 with that lack of knowledge.

8th, the powerups missing ... THEY ARE NOT MISSING i removed them because of the hp/armor regeneration, once again if you had read my previous post you would know that already but. again, you didn't so ...

9th, The invisibility perk, every time you enter in pain state you automaticly triggers it as i mentioned in my previous posts, and once more you'd know if you had read them but, again, you didn't so ...

10th, why do you think it's for single player only? it's because of the invisibility perk. if you can't see others or they can't see you there is a high possibility they'll kill you by accident.

In conclusion you played my mod in the worse conditions ever and recorded a video with your friends to show the world how bad my mod is ... well that really kind of you really lol Looks like only a handful of guys on this forum willing to help the new modders and on the other hand(as i suspected) their is a lot more more than happy to bash any new mods they haven't created. Honestly i find it childish and it show how some people can be immature.

Do you know why i think your video hilarious? it's because you are not only showing how bad you think my mod is but you suck at playing it. I mean how could you die with my mod? I made it in a way you can't die if you are smart enough to take advantage of the hp/armor regen and even with that you died so many times it's telling me one thing ... you are as bad as me when it comes to play Doom lol

By the way i disabled the cheats for all difficulties but since you didn't know it means you didn't even bother to read the whole first post .

I know your advice to me will probably be "Quit modding you suck" but let me give you an advice of my own - "Before you critic a mod BE SURE TO READ ALL THE RELATED POSTS before doing so"

[torridgristle]

Third, I know it's far from perfect but it's so easy to make critics about a mod and NOT proposing solutions or suggestions about what should be done and what should be left behind.

Are you suggesting that people abstain from critiques if they can't solve a problem for you?

[Endless123]

Of course not lol

I'm just pointing out critics are fine, bad or good does not matters to me, but it has to be constructive. If critics are made just to demolish someone's work well those critics should not be considered unless they give me a damn good reason to consider them credible , like suggestions or solutions to problems in the mod.

Besides people has the absolute right to dislike my mod, i created this mod for fun not to be the best of the best of the best mod ever because i don't have the knowledge to make it a special mod. I just made this mod with the little knowledge i have about modding Doom (i know it's very little lol) but like any modders i want to improve my work and make it better and bug-free.

What i don't like is the way some people are making critics, most of the time it's rude, pointless and just a spam post to increase to post total, in other word, trolls.

[Triple S]

Third, I know it's far from perfect but it's so easy to make critics about a mod and NOT proposing solutions or suggestions about what should be done and what should be left behind.

Are you suggesting that people abstain from critiques if they can't solve a problem for you?

While I think his post is way too defensive and etc etc, he's actually right about this and you're pretty off-base (welcome to the doom community, amirite). He's saying that saying something sucks is pointless unless you at least say why it sucks. You don't have to fix the problem for him, but you damn well better give him more information than "this is wrong" because it basically becomes luck at that point as to where to take it. At the very least, say "this is bad for x reason," where the reason is something like "the content of the mod clashes with itself in terms of gameplay and/or aesthetics" or "this movement feature is bad because it feels clunky/slippery/out-of-place and as such I don't want to use it." If you just say "this sucks, fix it" then the mod author basically has to guess as to why it sucks, or scrap entirely what could develop into a good feature. The biggest help is to give suggestions of how something should be, or point toward other mods that have done similar things the right way. That way, the author improves their mod and learns for the future.

Of course, this only works if the author is receptive of criticism and able to press for more information without being a total cuntmuffin toward everyone. That last hyper-ranty post the OP made is pretty much what not to do. It could have been solved easier with "Could I get some suggestions on how to improve stuff? Also the mod is designed for single player, please don't play coop with it because it messes things up" rather than the frothing mess of a post we got.


tl;dr Criticism is useless without details, you don't have to fix problems but stating that something is problematic without saying why accomplishes nothing. On the other hand completely losing your shit over criticism makes people not want to help you in any way so try asking nicely next time.

[edward850]

Post

I myself don't normally respond to the authors of whom we (the usual group on Teamspeak. It’s not a solo thing) review mods of, however after internal discussion we have decided that you had some points worth addressing that was otherwise nor clearly or correctly stated in our initial review, and feel I owe it to you to clarify the points you have presented to us.

I would like to address the claims about your mods alleged cooperative compatibility. I normally review mods this way if said mod meets such requirements (player starts, no obvious oversight in code, etc). With your mod, I found no such issues in place, and found no such comment in your original post implying that your mod was intended for singleplayer. I have re-read your post and indeed there is no such comment. I apologize if this was not your recommended format, but it can’t be expected for myself to automatically know this. In such a scenario, it would have be done in a race format or otherwise, to meet specifications of a mod our group would like to review or critique.

The features you pointed out that I noticed while playing, (regenerating Health/Armour, invisibility on damage, etc) were indeed things I didn't notice when downloading the mod, however it doesn't change how well-designed these features are. They were rather un-obvious and disruptive, and my critique on these features wouldn't change had I known about them.

I am unsure what you mean by your fourth point:

Fourth, I also mentioned in my previous posts i needed help to balance my mod ... and what did you do ? You made a video playing a co-op game for a mod that was created FOR SINGLE GAME ONLY and even worse, you didn't make any suggestions about how to correct things you don't like.

Unfortunately, the only reason why you should be releasing a mod is if you are happy with its current content. You should be welcoming feedback, rather the actively rejecting it if it’s not the feedback you wanted. There is a difference between critique and suggestions, however. This point implies you wanted suggestions. You shouldn't expect a critique to have suggestions.

If you called your mod Crazy Doom, “crazy” does not automatically excuse every design methodology. Your weapons absurd alt-fires starts making the primary of others redundant, or in other case the weapons don't need to exist at all (the shotgun has no point if the SSG fires at the same speed). It’s not a good idea to make features in your own mod pointless to use. See KrazyKate for example. The mod is “off-the-walls”, but the features still compliment each other.
And seeing as you brought it up, the jumping itself is nonsense. It made the jump pointless or exploitable to a pointless degree, rather than “crazy”.

You make another point on how the only reason why I should be critiquing your mod is if I’m helping you fix it. This is not how a critique works. Yes, it’s a fault, and yes, I will point this out if I didn't know it was going to occur. However, that's the thing; none of us knew what we were going to expect with your mod when we started playing it. Of course it’s going to get commented on. That’s kind of the point.

Footnote: Insulting myself and the entire play-through of your mod and writing it off as invalid because said players died, blatantly ignoring the friendly fire and/or cross-country latency or actual skill (which can’t be adequately judged because of said friendly fire and latency) isn't particularly sporting. You also cannot expect people to play your mod the way you want them to (Doom’s level design isn't made for cover mechanics, just fyi).
At no point did any of us imply that you couldn't make better. Of course I want you to make better content and I’m not sure why you would want me to suggest otherwise.

Try better, but don’t ever write off criticism due to “skill” or “you are playing it wrong”. You won’t be able to improve anything if you ignore everything.

[twinkieman93]

I like lists, so here's a short list of the things wrong with this mod, and how to fix them or otherwise make it better. It's going to be on the long side despite being a short list, for obvious reasons.

---

1. The weapons are... well, they're not very good. And that's putting it politely. The weapon graphics you've used are a greatest hits collection of popular mod's resources, and they're used nonsensically in some cases, owing to their altfires. An SSG that fires BFG blasts? A chaingun which fires rockets out of the same barrels it fires bullets? A rocket launcher which just fires rockets... faster? What is the point of all these altfires? I can't tell you what exactly to change, because I'd be here all day, but a general guideline is that these weapons all seem to be treading on each other's toes and there needs to be some separation here! Also, get some graphics that aren't immediately recognizable, because I could tell all of those sprites were lifted rather unceremoniously from Accessories to Murder and the test versions of Brutal Doom v19. Get something more... unique. Although I hesitate to say that because finding unique weapon sprites without having them drawn for you is nigh impossible. Just get something... less used. That's it.

2. The regenerating health and armor needs to go. You mentioned that they'd have a better time if they used the health and armor regeneration to their advantage... I read this as "sit on your ass and twiddle your thumbs for a while until the health fairy makes it all better", and sighed. This is Doom, spunkgargleweewee mechanics have their place and it's not here. And reinstate the powerups you removed while you're at it, because the disappointment of some secrets now being an empty closet of sadness is too much for my poor lil' ol' heart to bear. Not really, of course, but it's still kinda bad.

3. The invisibility on hit DEFINITELY needs to exit the building. This is the biggest gripe with this mod, seriously. Blurspheres are, in my mind, a powerDOWN rather than a powerup. As expanded upon in the video, for super old school play the boon granted by the sphere was good, because people didn't quite have dodging down yet. Once we as a community got better at the game, though, the randomization afforded by it became a curse rather than a boon. Why would I need to have a powerup that makes monsters miss randomly when I can make monsters miss 100% of the time* while dodging? It's pointless.

4. I lied. The super jumping is the one thing that definitely needs to be removed, if you don't take any of my other advice. I'm not entirely sure why it was added in the first place, its one and only purpose is to break maps, whether it be for better or for worse. As the video demonstrated, you can fly through certain levels like you're Superman, and as it also demonstrated it would make jumping puzzles designed for a normal jump height a fool's errand. The invisibility is just frustrating; this could make a mapset literally impossible to beat. This has GOT to go.

5. Clean up your attitude. This of course isn't a mod improvement so much as it is a self-improvement. Yelling at one person, even if you feel like it's justified, makes EVERYONE want to help you less. I almost didn't want to reply because I didn't want to help someone who was being so nasty, but you're new around here so I cut you some slack. Just cool your jets and next time, act a bit more level-headed, alright? I don't wanna see you slip into madness like some of the others...

*Result may vary depending on your personal skill at dodging, of course.

EDIT: Ed actually said most of what I just said. Heh.

[edward850]

I blinked, and noticed you mentioned we should have done a "post gameplay breakdown". That is usually the expectation, however BouncyTEM by the end of it was just past it. I have never seen him so worn out by a mod before, which says a lot, really.

[Endless123]

Maybe i should had put in my mod the mention "WIP" because you seems to think it's a complete mod while it's not even close to be completed. Besides this mod isn't meant to be realistic. If you think a SSG shooting BFG shots is a weird thing well you're right but you are also missing the point. I'm not the first one to make a mod with this kind of weirdness and i'm sure i'm not the last one either.

I can see why purist doom players don't like it because there is so many things that look out of place and twinkieman93 i appreciate your honesty in your list and at least you said what should be and not be on the mod and that's exactly what i was looking for to improve my mod and make it better.

Well the i added the superjump because i got tired to open the console and cheat my way back up a pit or die trying, that's the only reason why i added it. Of course it can be used to "jump" to the end of a map which is i confess can break the gamplay. The default high is 7 and even a 4yo kid can jump higher than that. In my mod it's set to 50 so what could be an acceptable jump high?

The invisibility perk is indeed more annoying than i though so it will be removed in the next update

The regen is there to stay but i could place the usual powerups back if needed. Since it's only effective when the player moves and take actions i don't see why it should be removed. Besides, a very good mod has armor regen (in the form of a regenerative shield which is a great idea) - Project MSX - and it's really fun to play to my opinion.

As for the sprites, well i could take other's sprites but i'm really noob as for making them work without breaking the animations sequence and each time i tried it turned out to be worse than the actual set i choose and i definitively don't want to use the default sprites because they look a bit weird with this mod

As for my attitude ... well what can i say lol I speak what i think just like you and just like you i'm not taking 100 paths to do so. I must admit however sometimes i over-react to some comments that hurt me more than the usual and for that i apologize. I promise i will be more careful.

That's all for now.

BTW If you know how to fix that shell problem let me know, i'll be more than happy to solve this one.

[wildweasel]

Maybe i should had put in my mod the mention "WIP" because you seems to think it's a complete mod while it's not even close to be completed.

I don't see where Edward and company ever made that assumption. Besides, you've already labeled it "Beta."