The Guncaster - 3.777a

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Re: [Update] The Guncaster - 2.8, coming sometime.

Postby Jeimuzu73 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:56 pm

@MaxRideWizardLord & DoomKrakken

In good faith to defuse this situation, I recommend just making a simple add-on patch that fixes whatever issues you have with the base mod. I learnt the hard way that it's generally not a good idea to edit the main mod itself to suit my tastes.
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Re: [Update] The Guncaster - 2.8, coming sometime.

Postby DoomKrakken » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:26 pm

A simple add-on doesn't work with what I do to my version of the mod. Once I post a video, you'll probably see.

I find it easier to edit the main mod myself than to constantly complain about problems and stuff.
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Re: [Update] The Guncaster - 2.8, coming sometime.

Postby Zhs2 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:44 pm

And once you've made all of the changes you desire, you can copy over the files to a new wad (read:pk3) in the same exact locations as the files they're meant to replace in memory - a by-design feature of resource loading for idTech1. Easy-peasy patching.
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Re: [Update] The Guncaster - 2.8, coming sometime.

Postby wildweasel » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:11 pm

Zhs2 wrote:And once you've made all of the changes you desire, you can copy over the files to a new wad (read:pk3) in the same exact locations as the files they're meant to replace in memory - a by-design feature of resource loading for idTech1. Easy-peasy patching.

I imagine what he's trying to say is that the changes he's trying to make happen a lot easier when he doesn't have to specifically override parts of the mod, so he's altering the mod directly instead.
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Re: [Update] The Guncaster - 2.8, coming sometime.

Postby DoomKrakken » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:29 pm

Nailed it right on the head, WW!

If I wanted to, I could make a patch... but I find it to be so much easier to just change the core mod itself rather than create a separate patch. I'd make it into a patch if I were to release my changes publicly.
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Re: [Update] The Guncaster - 2.8, coming sometime.

Postby Zhs2 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:27 pm

Just don't forget which files you've edited if or when you do. :P
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Re: [Update] The Guncaster - 2.8, coming sometime.

Postby MaxRideWizardLord » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:52 am

DoomKrakken wrote:and yet even moar pushy message about what I already said countless of times earlier, now in CAPSLOCK

Oh boy… And I thought I was annoying. :D

>Dude... THIS IS A DRAGON.

Yes... We all know he is a "dragon".

>WHO HAPPENS TO BE HUMAN-SIZED AND HUMAN-SHAPED.

That’s the definition of word humanoid btw.

>WHO HAPPENS TO BE ABLE TO USE MAGIC. Not sure if you noticed... but this guy isn't primarily a magic user. He's a dragon first and foremost, a gunslinger second, and a magic user third.

no shit.

>If you want a pure magic user, go ask Daedelon... see if he's up for hire.

In all honesty, I wish it was possible. Since his "magic" was inferior to warrior and cleric in vanila hexen.

>Else, don't object to a dragon who can use other techniques besides purely magic.

I believe no one asked him to rely purely on magic, so far I saw there been only debates for magic to be as power and as often used as guns, but not excess that.

>Quote the post where I explicitly said that dragons have metal talons. What I really said was that their claws are nearly indestructible... therefore, it's harder than the metal, so therefore, they can break the Iron Lich's shell.

In previous message you said "He can break a tank. Because HE'S A DRAGON. Crows don't have metal talons, so of course they're not going to do anything to the Iron Lich", it seemed like you implied that this dragon have “metal” talons, or have talons as powerful as metal. I come to that conclusion because you seem to used it as excuse of why you assume dragons can damage iron and crows can't. Talons of all alive being have similar composition, they all made of keratin which is merely a hard protein, be that raptor or a bird and it's not stronger than metal in the slightest and actually more fragile. Even most myths and folklore about dragons try to stick to reality, so they never protray them as "nearly indestructible". Anything that goes beyond that is made up and fiction that is impossible to reproduce in physical world. But since dragons are fiction characters that never existed and only appears in a fantasy world, so if you really want to suggest them to have indestructible extremity that contradicts any common sense, it's more rational to assume they are made of magic.

So if dragons for no reason and with no foundation have almost "indestructible" claws, why can't crows that are created by using magic have same similar indestructible talons to harm their victims, or even ethereal one since they pass through enemies?? That's exactly what I was trying saying, if you want more realism in a fantasy world then a lot of things will not work either. But since it's a fantasy world you can create whatever laws of physics you want, but you seems completely missed the point I made.

>And if you ACTUALLY look into Trailblazer's code... the Fleshrends, Leadspitters, Cradle & Grave, Sidekick, FMG, and the Chrome Justice's Alt-fire ALL have those "boring" hitscans.

I thought it was obvious that I was talking about minigun. I was mostly careless about the rest of the guns tbh. Please don't hate me for that. D:

>I care about the lore. It helps to explain why some things are the way they are. It's the modder's thoughts, ideas, and intentions, translated into story format.

I know that you do, but please accept people who do not and care more about gameplay. Gameplay is always more important for me in a video game. Look, even PB said it's a joke plot anyway, so why be so madly picky about it??

>It seems like the only one who actually wants any of these changes is you. Why not implement all of these changes in your personal copy of the mod?

I'm not the only one, just like my *cough* friends that told me about this mod mostly were a "magic lovers". If we are talking about the topic of resistances and immunities, I don't even ask much to change. I only wish the remain immunities were gone, especially against the sticky flames of skullfire, I feel like those aren't even intentional, because this issue happens in most doom mods some enemies have splash damage resistance. As for ice, I haven't found immunity yet against wendigo, at least against frostbite. But if there is immunity against something else that is ice like I assume chillgrasp, I wish there were not, because in vanila game I can kill wendigos with ice like anything else, although frost shards are the worst second weapon in the game anyway. Just get the point that I'm against the idea that any source of damage, be that guns or magic have any sort of immunity. I'm not asking anyone anything, but I genuinely don't like it. I hope we are done with this topic?

wildweasel wrote:A notice from the moderator: There is an Edit button! If you want to make changes to your posts, click the "EDIT" button at the top of your post. Please DO NOT delete the post and re-post it, as that not only resets the post's "unread" flag (irritating for those of us who use the "View Unread Posts" button on the front page), it also clutters up the Moderator Log with entries of "MaxRideWizardLord deleted post in topic."

Oh, sorry about that. I just don't like edit my message after 5 min after I found out silly mistake that could completely alter the meaning of word I used and have this ugly tag "post is edited". It would confuse people and make them assume I changed the meaning of things previously, or just wonder what the text was before the edit. :P But sure, will do now.
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Re: [Update] The Guncaster - 2.8, coming sometime.

Postby DoomKrakken » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:32 pm

MaxRideWizardLord wrote:I believe no one asked him to rely purely on magic, so far I saw there been only debates for magic to be as power and as often used as guns, but not excess that.


It was the "foot to the face" remark. You said that it was insulting for a magic user such as Cygnis to be using his own feet to beat up ghosts.

MaxRideWizardLord wrote:In previous message you said "He can break a tank. Because HE'S A DRAGON. Crows don't have metal talons, so of course they're not going to do anything to the Iron Lich", it seemed like you implied that this dragon have “metal” talons, or have talons as powerful as metal. I come to that conclusion because you seem to used it as excuse of why you assume dragons can damage iron and crows can't. Talons of all alive being have similar composition, they all made of keratin which is merely a hard protein, be that raptor or a bird and it's not stronger than metal in the slightest and actually more fragile.


My fault for miswording. When I said that, I meant that crow talons are nowhere near as hard as metal, like you said. Granted, they're sharp, but they can only cut if they're harder than metal. Cygnis's claws, however, are nearly indestructible, which should lead one to assume that they're much harder than the Iron Lich's metal, and so therefore can tear through it.

MaxRideWizardLord wrote:Even most myths and folklore about dragons try to stick to reality, so they never protray them as "nearly indestructible". Anything that goes beyond that is made up and fiction that is impossible to reproduce in physical world. But since dragons are fiction characters that never existed and only appears in a fantasy world, so if you really want to suggest them to have indestructible extremity that contradicts any common sense, it's more rational to assume they are made of magic.


I'm guessing you've never read stories like Saint George and the Dragon or The Hobbit... right?

MaxRideWizardLord wrote:So if dragons for no reason and with no foundation have almost "indestructible" claws, why can't crows that are created by using magic have same similar indestructible talons to harm their victims, or even ethereal one since they pass through enemies?? That's exactly what I was trying saying, if you want more realism in a fantasy world then a lot of things will not work either. But since it's a fantasy world you can create whatever laws of physics you want, but you seems completely missed the point I made.


Obviously because the spell isn't powerful enough to do that. All it does is summon ravenous crows who fly fast and eat stuff up super fast. To be able to summon something like that with those enhancements would justify the usage of that mana.

MaxRideWizardLord wrote:I thought it was obvious that I was talking about minigun. I was mostly careless about the rest of the guns tbh. Please don't hate me for that. D:


It wasn't obvious... but no, I won't hate you for that.

That's another thing I did in my version, actually... I made the Strucker and Pulverizer fire tracers now. Strucker tracers are invisible, since no one can really see the shot flying.

I've yet to do that in Trailblazer...

MaxRideWizardLord wrote:I know that you do, but please accept people who do not and care more about gameplay. Gameplay is always more important for me in a video game. Look, even PB said it's a joke plot anyway, so why be so madly picky about it??


Well... there are times when I don't agree with lore (such as in Doom itself, or DemonSteele)...

MaxRideWizardLord wrote:I'm not the only one, just like my *cough* friends that told me about this mod mostly were a "magic lovers". If we are talking about the topic of resistances and immunities, I don't even ask much to change. I only wish the remain immunities were gone, especially against the sticky flames of skullfire, I feel like those aren't even intentional, because this issue happens in most doom mods some enemies have splash damage resistance. As for ice, I haven't found immunity yet against wendigo, at least against frostbite. But if there is immunity against something else that is ice like I assume chillgrasp, I wish there were not, because in vanila game I can kill wendigos with ice like anything else, although frost shards are the worst second weapon in the game anyway. Just get the point that I'm against the idea that any source of damage, be that guns or magic have any sort of immunity. I'm not asking anyone anything, but I genuinely don't like it. I hope we are done with this topic?


I love frost shards... :(

If you genuinely don't like what's here in Guncaster, then why not make changes yourself, to your own version? That's what I did, and now I don't complain anymore, since I can just make edits to my stuff now.
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Re: [Update] The Guncaster - 2.8, coming sometime.

Postby Cryomundus » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:28 pm

GUNS!
Image
Getting in fights! (technically not a gun, but better explain that one – combat capabilities of this guy may be slightly complicated.)
Image
Where lead can't make its way (or rather you somehow ran out of bullets), your fists can do the speaking part for you. After thousands of critters being bludeoned into submission, there was no other option than repair the shattered knuckles with metallic replacements, hence the loud thuds each time you pack a punch into one's face... but isn't that just satisfying?


Apparently no one can read properly. The bolded statement is precisely why Cygnis can rip Iron Liches a new one, and crows cannot. His fists are literally made of metal.

Also;

Ancient Amplifier
Image
The classics! Boosts and/or alters your spells behaviour at increased energy costs, and you can hold five of them anytime.

Go buy that thing (or a few) in the shop, use them, and then come back and tell me if spells are "underpowered".

Make sure to use the supernova too!

Oh, and the shop sells these things;
Image
Which will refill all your mana instantly, and you can carry up to 5 or so of them?

One last thing;

Medbag
Image
Standard-issue medkit, heals you instantly for all the amount of health you're missing, and as much as it can cover. You can hold up to five hundred units of it at any given moment. Each time you use it, you have a delay of 15 seconds before you can use it again.

You can, once again, BUY THESE IN THE SHOP, and use 'em whenever.
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Re: [Update] The Guncaster - 2.8, coming sometime.

Postby Redead-ITA » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:32 pm

Cryomundus wrote: A big realization for the people


*Slaps the Table so hard it did an earthquake* THANK YOU
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Re: [Update] The Guncaster - 2.8, coming sometime.

Postby MaxRideWizardLord » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:55 pm

DoomKrakken wrote:beating dead horse

okay then.

>It was the "foot to the face" remark. You said that it was insulting for a magic user such as Cygnis to be using his own feet to beat up ghosts.

It was direct reference to the player itself, not the “character” of vidya mod. You can play as samurai and be colt lover, so use colt all the time and hate the swords if you prefer.

Please cut the idea from your head that I have ever intentions to referencing to the “character” and “lore” in vidyas in the slightest, especially in a mod where the author himself said it’s a joke plot, I’m talking about the subjects, i.e. players and their preferences.

>My fault for miswording. When I said that, I meant that crow talons are nowhere near as hard as metal, like you said. Granted, they're sharp, but they can only cut if they're harder than metal. Cygnis's claws, however, are nearly indestructible, which should lead one to assume that they're much harder than the Iron Lich's metal, and so therefore can tear through it.

>Obviously because the spell isn't powerful enough to do that. All it does is summon ravenous crows who fly fast and eat stuff up super fast. To be able to summon something like that with those enhancements would justify the usage of that mana.

Already discussed countless times before... In the real world, all talons are the same. Be that birds\crows, raptor or even dragon from folklore. Dragons originally in most old myths didn't intended to have "nearly indestructible" talons for reason I just explained above. So if we assume that in this fictional world he got "nearly indestructible" extremity, namely some magical unrealistic otherwordly 'overpowered' "metal" he used to replaced his knuckles and it seems claws too since even with scratch can shred a thick metal enemies in a few tries, why can't we have fictional magical ethereal crows that pass through enemies and damage them regardless, just like they do in this mod? You seem to push on me your own self made bias too hard that are not based on anything while rejecting reality or even common sense, specifically with that "nearly indestructible" aspect, while not allowing me to put my two cents of my own perspective on how things could work in a fantasy world. I don't even want crows be changed in future versions tbh.

>I'm guessing you've never read stories like Saint George and the Dragon or The Hobbit... right?

I was more referring about original dragon tales and folklore from the east, and from what I remember the “dragon” in saint george and the dragon narrative was far from “nearly indestructible”, as the “dragon” was killed with generic spear at the end. Funny, we have similar spin off with George the Victorious that is very similar lore to that one. In both, the “dragon” dies in just one stab of spear and was far more fragile from what you describe them to be.

The Hobbit is a pure fiction novel that are based on nothing and was meant mostly for young kids as fairy tale in their own fantasy world with their rules, so it’s irrelevant. Ironically, in elder scrolls games dragons described as pure magical creature but have really tough dense magical skin, just like you said. But they are somewhat half-gods so they just cannot live without magic as they are the magic, the whole “dragonborn” nonsense start somewhat from that.

>It wasn't obvious... but no, I won't hate you for that.

That's another thing I did in my version, actually... I made the Strucker and Pulverizer fire tracers now. Strucker tracers are invisible, since no one can really see the shot flying.

I've yet to do that in Trailblazer...

Good job mang, have a cookie.

>Well... there are times when I don't agree with lore (such as in Doom itself, or DemonSteele)...

Oh look, and I disagree with a "lore" of this mod, even though PB said it's a joke plot anyway. You going to hate me for that?

>I love frost shards... :(

We all may love them, but it doesn't change fact that it's statisitcally the worst second weapon in the game in comparison to other, and that's statement is objective. I'd even say it's least magical weapon of all the second weapons.

>If you genuinely don't like what's here in Guncaster, then why not make changes yourself, to your own version? That's what I did, and now I don't complain anymore, since I can just make edits to my stuff now.

I can't even get Slade 3 installed on my windows XP for it to work to even change lumps. :(

Cryomundus wrote:Apparently no one can read properly. The bolded statement is precisely why Cygnis can rip Iron Liches a new one, and crows cannot. His fists are literally made of metal.

Apparently you haven't read whole topic and yet still decided to jump in a bandvagon, hypocritically judge that no one can read properly. :V Fyi, we were talking about toughtness of actual dragons in tales, since he claim that dragon talons somehow differs from talons from other animals even though it's proven that even dinosaurs had talons made of keratin and it couldn't be possible made of anything else, not about his suit or "metallic replacements".

P.S. Even a metal claws and knuckles against a huge, thick smooth metal of iron lich, you couldn't do much no matter how long you try. Even if you got the biggest war hamer in the world with a pointed tip that is used by the strongest person in the world, be that dragon or not, and decided to penetrate old tank like Tiger II, that again have obviously much thiner than what Iron Lich seems to have according to his look, you hardly will do a few of scratches if you do it like 10 times in a row in the exact same spot against his 180 mm parts. Even the strongest, biggest and most powerful anti-tank rifles of it's time did nothing against them.

P.P.S. I'm the one who is against realism in a fantasy world actually, just like against any elemental attacks immunities. I'm long ago suggested to drop this pointless topic and just agree to disagree, but DoomKrakken seems can't live without another wall-o-text debate.

Are we still trying to apply realism in a joke, fantasy world of doom video game that didn't make any sense to begin with? :P
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Re: [Update] The Guncaster - 2.8, coming sometime.

Postby wildweasel » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:01 pm

MaxRide, at this point you're not even arguing about the mod anymore so much as contradicting everybody that says a word against you.
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Re: [Update] The Guncaster - 2.8, coming sometime.

Postby Cryomundus » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:34 pm

And for someone who states "I'm the one who is against realism in a fantasy world actually", you really like bringing in real world examples to counteract statements about creatures in a fantasy game.

Can ya chill with the arguements, or at least take it to the Off-topic section, becuase that's literally all you folks are doing, is arguing over semantics. .
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Re: [Update] The Guncaster - 2.8, coming sometime.

Postby DoomKrakken » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:23 pm

I forgot about the metal implants. But isn't metal much weaker than dragon bone? And isn't dragon bone supposed to be virtually indestructible?

That's besides the point. We're really beating a dead horse here.
Last edited by DoomKrakken on Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Update] The Guncaster - 2.8, coming sometime.

Postby DoomRater » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:26 pm

Aluminum, sure. Carbon steel? Pffft yeah right.
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