The Guncaster - 3.888b

[KeksDose]

Pillow will fix bugs and take suggestions, but will not bother with suggestions that turn the mod on its head.

Furthermore, letters are lazy, they will not enter people's head easily. Entire paragraphs are a huge conundrum of laziness and we may be able to get five or six into our heads. A whole text wall, though, actually needs to pay rent and find a job. It has to get to the point, yet your alphabetic masonry runs tirelessly as it expends feels-cement. Though you are not expecting to actually pay up, are you?

I did not bother reading either of your rude text walls even half, Tommy. I am part of the development team and maintain certain ACS gimmicks and, for cheesecake's sake, keep your bug reports and suggestions clear.

Tell us what happens, in which version of zdoom, what additional files you load and how to reproduce it. Concise input, not ranting and certainly not shifting the focus to yourself and your idea of magic. Indulge in inspiration here.

As a developer, not a publisher, allow me to criticise your novels for you calling attention to yourself and your special friend. We are convinced your obnoxious, vast text presence served its purpose to hijack the thread and discourage anybody else from even considering to discuss here. Knowing that, demonstrate to us why your audacity to expect us to consider your uncouthly input seriously is even half-justifiable, would you gladly?

[MaxRideWizardLord]

Jenkins, look at the new trailer of Guncaster. They introduced new "OP" suit that it seems spawns instead of bfg that have nice attacks build in and very slowly regenerate hp. The fire modes are not as powerful as old dreadful, but it's bfg replacement so you can hope it stays in your inventory for good and you can use it anytime you want and you it still saves in your backpack after changing the map just like in demonsteel.

By the way, I want to say that I'm one of those guys from youtube that drop PillowBlaster some suggestions, and I'm that guy who personally help jenkins build that huge message, didn't knew it will be this big but it end up pretty big at end. But if you say something the rest of people don't like, you'd get flamed a lot, so I try to avoid forums too. :/ In zandronum I made only one post\thread about my little script for turbo buttons, and then I already get plenty of hateful PMs by demonsteel fans. -.-

So yeah, I'm one of those guys who wish to see the spells be as equal and balanced just like guns were not just a support element, and that means I wish magic could be used offensively just like guns do, not just persis as support. I'm not saying magic are weak by itself, its just when you compare them to guns overall. And I'm honestly careless if the guns are too overpowered or not, it wouldn't be PillowBlaster mod if they weren't, and I loved Russian Overkill too even though it didn't had much of magical weapons, or any. It's not like there lots of decent pure "magical" mods for any of the heretic\hexen\doom games, if there is at least one.

I'd even go as far and say that pulverizer feels a bit weak, for assault cannon that does that shots too many bullets it doesn't kill as fast, but that is my opinion. I'm not the guy who demands nerfs in PB's mods.

[Arctangent]

Honestly, this isn't helpful at all.

If you want to put a lot of effort into your feedback, put that effort into brevity. There are times where a lengthy discourse is appropriate, but when it comes to most situations you're just going to end up with a giant post that goes mostly ignored because nobody wants to read all that, like, seriously, nobody wants to read what is an essentially a thesis paper on what could be improved in a hobby project. Being concise lets you get straight to the point, it lets the developer get straight to your point, and something actually might get done.

Really, keep that part in mind: it lets the developer get straight to your point. If what you're trying to say is buried under twenty miles of irrelevant fluff, even if the dev reads all that chances are they might misinterpret what you were getting at entirely and nobody ends up satisfied.

[DoomRater]

In other words: more meaningful posts. Suggestions about what to do with magic (already suggested more clues that a monster is immune/resistant/weak to a magic spell, like a puff when a monster is hit)

[DoomKrakken]

Pulverizer and Strucker are definitely weak. In my version, I modified them so that the Strucker fires 20 pellet projectiles dealing 5*(random(1,3)) damage each, and the Pulverizer fires tracer projectiles dealing 8*(random(1,3)) each. I also felt I was carrying too much ammo, so I changed ammo caps to 100 shells max. (200 shells backpack max.) and 300 Pulverizer cartridges max. (600 backpack max.).

Still against magic being equal to guns. There's always that "just another bazooka" feeling that will kill it. There are advantages and disadvantages to using one or the other, and that's the beauty of the mod. There are many applications to magic, albeit most of them are for killing, but that's what makes it fun... however, there's only one purpose to the guns: to kill.

[MaxRideWizardLord]

I never found strucker to be any weak in the slightest, considering that with stratocaster it's basically more superiour minigun than double pulverizer and default mode is just vanila autossg.

I'm fully against reducing the max ammo limit either for any of the weapon even a tiny bit, because I like that you almost never out of ammo in Guncaster, no matter how much you miss or how much you careless to use any of the weapons.

I'm not even sure if I want to buff pulverizer, since it's the best weapon to farm most coins off enemies with loadsamoney mode activated.

Maybe enemies should just drop gold considering the damage you deal to them, not how much you hit them. Would as well make it be more fair to magic. Only if it's possible to do on gzdoom engine, of course.

In other words: more meaningful posts. Suggestions about what to do with magic (already suggested more clues that a monster is immune/resistant/weak to a magic spell, like a puff when a monster is hit)

No, I completely against it. I rather remove any resistance that still persist, it makes no sense why would some enemies take 0 damage from explosion damage by let's say skullfire while being gibbed by sovereign. I would only like it if some of the enemies could have resistances, including immunity against ironblast, sovereign and old dreadful. That will make things fair.

[Zhs2]

including immunity against ironblast

Lead is my bread...

sovereign

... explosions replace emotions.

and old dreadful.

Infantry die when exposed to tiberium.

In all seriousness, there's only one true immunity left in the whole game: Wendigos, ice. Guns follow a generic damagetype that are usually always effective no matter what, just in case you need a backup plan and your current spell selection doesn't work out in a given situation. Feedback has been increased and resistances around the board have been decreased as a whole due to the difficulty in finding that good balance that just tells you "this spell doesn't work against x creature". I'm not sure how much further it will go than that, at any rate - in this mod, it's all about determination. How badly do you want to kill that Wizard with lightning? It will happen. Just persevere.

[DoomKrakken]

I apologize for this slight wall of text... but here we go.

I never found strucker to be any weak in the slightest, considering that with stratocaster it's basically more superiour minigun than double pulverizer and default mode is just vanila autossg.

That's the only advantage. A stunlocker. But it deals very low damage. I modified it so that it had the same amount of pellets and damage per pellet as Vanilla Doom's Super Shotgun.

I'm fully against reducing the max ammo limit either for any of the weapon even a tiny bit, because I like that you almost never out of ammo in Guncaster, no matter how much you miss or how much you careless to use any of the weapons.

Which is exactly the problem. I use the Ironblast, Strucker, and Pulverizer waaaaaay too much, since I almost never run out of ammo as it is right now. Regardless, I still pick up enough backpacks to have an overabundance of cartridges and shells.

I'm not even sure if I want to buff pulverizer, since it's the best weapon to farm most coins off enemies with loadsamoney mode activated.

I love the dosh system, but I'm more into actually killing the monsters rather than picking their pockets. If you're into that, you can go and nerf the Pulverizer so that they stay alive longer to drop more coins... XD

Maybe enemies should just drop gold considering the damage you deal to them, not how much you hit them. Would as well make it be more fair to magic. Only if it's possible to do on gzdoom engine, of course.

The way it works right now, it applies to the amount of blood you draw. So, the more blood you draw, the more dosh you'll get. From what I know, if there was a way to do that, it'd be 1) really hard to do, and 2) not worth the time and effort.

No, I completely against it. I rather remove any resistance that still persist, it makes no sense why would some enemies take 0 damage from explosion damage by let's say skullfire while being gibbed by sovereign. I would only like it if some of the enemies could have resistances, including immunity against ironblast, sovereign and old dreadful. That will make things fair.

It makes total sense to me. Think of Skullfire as an incendiary grenade... if people are wearing something fireproof, then it will have little to no effect on them. That's what a damagefactor is like. However, a volatile explosive such as a Sovereign slug will surely bypass that kind of protection. Think of trying to take down a tank with incendiary grenades or some explosive HEAT/HEAP slugs. Take the Iron Lich for example... it's a pretty good example, considering the amount of damagefactors it has. What's it made of? Iron. Metal. What are metal's strengths? It's fairly weather resistant... which means it has significant resistance to things like fire and ice (though it will still break if said elements are applied in extreme quantities). Look at its damagefactors again... what do you see?

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	DamageFactor Fire3, 0.35
	DamageFactor Ice, 0.25

It's very hard and durable, which means bird talons at most can probably scratch it, which won't do so much. Other metal may have a good chance of inflicting some damage... but only if its hard enough. The knives from Threadcutter deal severe damage to fleshed folk because they're made to pierce flesh... but not metal. He's even resistant to some of your guns. Then there's your own dragon strength... you can eventually break through that shell, but it may take a little longer than you'd want...

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	DamageFactor Normal, 0.5
	DamageFactor CloseCombat, 0.75
	DamageFactor Shoelaces, 0.75
	DamageFactor SuperCloseCombat, 0.75
	DamageFactor SuperShoelaces, 0.75
	DamageFactor Crow, 0.0
	DamageFactor Crow2, 0.0
	DamageFactor Manuel, 0.5

What are the weaknesses of metal? Acid. It can eat through a lot of stuff, even metal. Gumpop acid acts strangely with organic material, but it acts the same as any other highly potent acid with inorganic material. Then there's lightning, a form of electricity... and metals like iron are known to conduct electricity effectively.

Code: Select all

	DamageFactor Lightning, 1.33
	DamageFactor Acid, 2.0 //Yes that's right - Gumpop rapes Ironlich. Hell, if I could, I'd just make an death anim of him - melting.

The beauty of this is that it forces you to change strategies, instead of relying totally on one thing. It has you to switch things up.

I say keep all of the DamageFactors. They make total sense. As a matter of fact, I'd say to introduce some PainChances there (such as PainChance "Fire" 0 for the Iron Lich).

[PillowBlaster]

Christ, I am away for a week or two to take a break from this, and suddenly I see a gigantic wall of text with a hefty premise for a shitstorm? Way to keep me motivated.

Kay, so I took a moment to read it through somehow (never again), and... how about you let me do things my way and let me figured them out, instead of being so hellbent on demonizing weapons and resists, or taking the whole joke plot about hating the magic literally? If that'd the case, I wouldn't make this mod in the first place. Calling that I am spewing unreasonable fallacy and trying to champion some magic-loving rebellion totally makes me want to support your ideas and suggestions. You tell me what you want in a polite and non-invasive way, and then I consider them. Not the other way around, where you construct a literal wall of text, expecting things to change and get angry at everyone getting suspicious that "huh, someone might be taking this whole feedback-giving a bit too seriously! Moreover, he literally tries to push for it with copious amounts of whining!". And afer that, going like "I HEARD THAT PEOPLE ARE ASSHOLES HERE AND YOUR REACTION IS MY PROOF" won't make you absolved from the exact behaviour you were so afraid of from the zdf - you basically triggered it. In fact, I tried to listen to you before, else I wouldn't respond back then in the yt comments in the first place. But then, after this whole passive-aggressive mudslinging and repeating same stuff over and over again, just to whore for my attention - I gave up on that idea.

And no, changing the battleground won't make me change my mind. I'd rather hear about feedback how to make the resists more obvious without extensive line of effort as Doomrater suggested, as it's an integral part of the gameplay (I am out of ideas here, so I wouldn't mind something easy to do and easy to wrap one's head around that this monster isn't as responsive or completely untouchable by selected element - I thought of simply making it give out a glow of it's own with a corresponding color to the element, but not sure if it wouldn't be confused with gumpop's damage bonus now). For once I try to make things demand from player just a bit of thinking, as it doesn't take a genius to figure out that "oh, this huge skull that's launching elemental-based attacks is encased in metal and doesn't even release a single howl of pain! It might be immune to this particular spell! Maybe I should try something else instead!", and suddenly someone loses their mind. I'll admit that Lich wasn't that obvious with it's pain state in the first place. Still, why that burning skull can't be quite scratched by a ball of fire - even Krakken got the idea right. If you don't have a spell to counter that monster - plink away at it with a weapon. And there were like maybe five, truly immune to certain damagetypes monsters in total in the mod, so you literally made from it a bigger evil than it really was. It's not like I didn't listen at all - until I'll figure it out, resists were considerably toned down, and there's like only one immunity left, as mentioned by Zhs2.

Still, speaking of that, lemme make this straight - Magic is not underpowered. Weapons are not overpowered. And they are equally important to me. Keeping on comparing magic to weapons mostly based on Dreadful, and that is a completely separate case, is plain wrong. It's as awkward as comparing it to the rest of the weapons - yes, it is my mod, so BFG is an opportunity for a class of its own - a superweapon, for how it's called by me and Keks ever since (and now with suit being a thing, there's like two of them now), and I am not gonna deviate from that just because here. Magic wasn't supposed to be spammable, because I wanted to make from it a rewarding support for right usage. It's more powerful than the rest of the weapons, be it for resists or not. It also received most, if not all of the gimmicks, so I had to fix that by giving guns some upgrades to make them more interesting. Magic again also has supportive spells for the weapons that aren't meant to directly deal damage. But fine, I made it spammable to your hearts desire now, because it sure as hell doesn't lack in power - even when considering resists. It only needed some output bonus. If that won't satisfy you, I can already tell you I won't go out of my way any further than that.

I'll gladly listen to feedback and try to do something about the issues or try to explain from my point of view why X is done this way and not another, as long as they are legitimate and served in a way that won't make me want to toss it all into dustbin the very moment I start reading. Being so wordy and pushy about things will give quite the opposite effect of convincing me to your point. This whole mess is like I'd get offended if someone would make a game with some feature I love, but wasn't a self-sustained center of the gameplay, so I am gonna bother devs to death to change that, because it doesn't fit my subjective view on it. This mod is named Guncaster, not GunCASTER, and I am not bound to bend my vision to someone's desires.

Eitherway, the update got a little delayed thanks to this whole mess. Might need another day or two so I can concentrate on getting things actually done.

[dimfallen]

Pillow will the gore from 2,8 be in your other mods or will it stay a guncaster only thing?

[Redead-ITA]

Trust me pillow i seen a bigger wall of text if you count all the hate coments about the mod called grezzo 2 (o god i sayid that name) still in order to enjoy the mod was to LAUGHT and NOT TAKE IT SERIUSLY and yet some people dont get it. ITS JUST A MOD WHERE YOU CAN SHOOT THE CANCEROUS PART OF THE ITALIAN COMUNITY JUST LAUGHT AT IT (even if it as assets from a lot of other wads and i mean a lot hell there is even pillows one's too)

What im trying to say is dont worry pillow your not the only one who is suffers from big dunces like that guy

[MaxRideWizardLord]

I apologize for this slight wall of text... but here we go.

Aren't making strucker shot do same damage as ssg per pellet and shot same amount of pellets like ssg would make it really OP? From my view, ssg is already too op in vanila doom. I like that I never out of ammo as well so that's why I'd like it to stay, why punish you if you just like go full rambo? I still would like if dosh system could be altered a little, I think that would set things fair and less weird. Knights once throw their bloody axes summon lots of coins too.

But skullfire is a fireball, it's like rocket launcher that explodes and do explosive damage, just like sovereign. Fire does damage metal as well, the heat of flamethrower is around 2000 celsius and have sticky napalm, if used against tank it could start getting hot very hard to a point people in there will have to escape or they be cooked, so does some mechanism start melt as well. Iron does as well reflect all bullets you shoot, and seeing how smooth round and thick iron of ironlich is, it could reflect all of it without any scratch. if you really about to make to make effect of weapons be "realistic", you couldn't break ironlich with firsts and claws either, neither with pellets. They both would do scratches like crows do.

I don't like this idea as well because like zhs2 suggests, this mod imply that anything you wish to use all of the time against anything, you will still win if you trully persevere. I like the mike tyson aspect of the mods when even weakest things can be used to win. I still hope there would be no immunities at all, or at least they would be toggeble in options, as long as this possible to implement.

I'd rather see guns have more strategies than magic, as they already have more situational use while with guns you can pretty much use same strucker and beat whole game while using run n' gun gameplay. Because like you said already, you almost never run out of ammo. If you buff damage, you'd out of ammo even less tho.

[ThomasNoname]

Why so hostile about it anyway? Can't we just discuss these things as civilized people? Btw, love your mod Pillow, it's very impressive and it really shows that you care and try to make a mod that really is a blast to play. Something people like me only can dream about to create.

Pillow will fix bugs and take suggestions, but will not bother with suggestions that turn the mod on its head.

Furthermore, letters are lazy, they will not enter people's head easily. Entire paragraphs are a huge conundrum of laziness and we may be able to get five or six into our heads. A whole text wall, though, actually needs to pay rent and find a job. It has to get to the point, yet your alphabetic masonry runs tirelessly as it expends feels-cement. Though you are not expecting to actually pay up, are you?

I did not bother reading either of your rude text walls even half, Tommy. I am part of the development team and maintain certain ACS gimmicks and, for cheesecake's sake, keep your bug reports and suggestions clear.

Tell us what happens, in which version of zdoom, what additional files you load and how to reproduce it. Concise input, not ranting and certainly not shifting the focus to yourself and your idea of magic. Indulge in inspiration here.

As a developer, not a publisher, allow me to criticise your novels for you calling attention to yourself and your special friend. We are convinced your obnoxious, vast text presence served its purpose to hijack the thread and discourage anybody else from even considering to discuss here. Knowing that, demonstrate to us why your audacity to expect us to consider your uncouthly input seriously is even half-justifiable, would you gladly?

"Tommy"?... were you talking to me by any chance? Because, I don't remember being rude to anyone, I had no intentions of being rude whatsoever. Also, please call me Thomas or "Noname" if you prefer... just not Tommy.

[DoomKrakken]

Aren't making strucker shot do same damage as ssg per pellet and shot same amount of pellets like ssg would make it really OP? From my view, ssg is already too op in vanila doom. I like that I never out of ammo as well so that's why I'd like it to stay, why punish you if you just like go full rambo? I still would like if dosh system could be altered a little, I think that would set things fair and less weird. Knights once throw their bloody axes summon lots of coins too.

I think it makes the Strucker just as powerful as the Ironblast. It takes one shot to take out a Hellknight with an Ironblast, and with my buffs, it now takes 4 Strucker shots to take down a Hellknight.

But skullfire is a fireball, it's like rocket launcher that explodes and do explosive damage, just like sovereign.

Fireball does not equal rocket. A fireball is supposed to burn people, not blow them up. A rocket launcher is supposed to blow people up, not incinerate them.

Fire does damage metal as well, the heat of flamethrower is around 2000 celsius and have sticky napalm, if used against tank it could start getting hot very hard to a point people in there will have to escape or they be cooked, so does some mechanism start melt as well.

After how long? Remember that the Iron Lich is the prodigal tank here... but the point is to destroy the Lich, not cook it until something jumps ship from the shell. The tank is also a machine. The Iron Lich is not. It will function as long as its shell is intact.

Iron does as well reflect all bullets you shoot, and seeing how smooth round and thick iron of ironlich is, it could reflect all of it without any scratch. if you really about to make to make effect of weapons be "realistic", you couldn't break ironlich with firsts and claws either, neither with pellets. They both would do scratches like crows do.

Metal vs. metal? Not really. It depends on how soft your ammunition is. I highly doubt Cygnis would have gone for some cheap-ass buckshot. He could be using steel shot there, with a high-velocity charge. Also remember that this is a dragon we're talking about here. He can break a tank. Because HE'S A DRAGON. Crows don't have metal talons, so of course they're not going to do anything to the Iron Lich.

I don't like this idea as well because like zhs2 suggests, this mod imply that anything you wish to use all of the time against anything, you will still win if you trully persevere. I like the mike tyson aspect of the mods when even weakest things can be used to win. I still hope there would be no immunities at all, or at least they would be toggeble in options, as long as this possible to implement.

As far as I know, toggleable immunity is impossible. What Zhs2 meant by using anything you want to win... it will take longer some ways than other ways, but you can win whichever way you choose to go. I like it because it forces people to switch up the game... although not by much. I only saw two total immunities in Guncaster... Ice for the Wendigo, and Crows for the Iron Lich. Everything else seems to do a good job. Heck, I almost ignore it.

But hey, if damagefactors are removed, we'll probably wind up with gameplay that's not so varied... one where the guy only uses an Ironblast and Hitchcock's birds to do everything. Like many gameplay sessions I see where the supershotgun is used 90% of the time. I'm certain that they will most certainly not remove damagefactors.

I'd rather see guns have more strategies than magic, as they already have more situational use while with guns you can pretty much use same strucker and beat whole game while using run n' gun gameplay. Because like you said already, you almost never run out of ammo. If you buff damage, you'd out of ammo even less tho.

I buffed damage with my guns, and I changed functions of a couple of the Stratocasters. There isn't much more that really can be done with the guns. Guns are powerful and straightforward, but aren't too dynamic. That's just how it works. Magic is very dynamic and indirect (well... mostly). They do other stuff besides just damage and kill stuff. They have nearly limitless possibility and potential. That's the beauty of the magic... it adds more possibility... thereby increasing the scope and range of your strategy. Why look to give the guns more "strategy" when the magic provides that strategy?

Why so hostile about it anyway? Can't we just discuss these things as civilized people?

We're not being hostile, and we are discussing this like civilized people.

[TheRailgunner]

I don't know if someone has mentioned this before, but the item shop wheel no longer works (strat and spell wheels work fine) - nothing on it can be purchased. I also haven't seen the Ironblast strat in action despite engaging it.