DoomRL Arsenal - [1.1.2] [MP-B7.2]

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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Tanksy » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:18 am

Drone Launcher is glorious, but that's why it costs 10 rockets for a drone.

On the topic of balancing Master Assemblies and what-not; Remember that weapon mods aren't a garuntee'd item. There's a chance that (And I've had this before) for most of the wad you're running around with 7 Bulk Mods and a Bulletstorm chaingun because the RNG Gods have no favor for you that day. It's hard to balance something when on one hand you can build it within a couple of maps whilst on the other hand you might never be able to build it in your life, ever.

I also like that some weapons, in certain classes hands, are really good. It helps to make that class shine just a little more by providing them a "niche arsenal" of sorts. That high powered Minigun with the Firestorm and Sniper mod might be the best friend of a marine - But in a Scout's hand? It won't be as effective, and definitely not a replacement for some of the pistol builds that can do devastating damage. (Looking at you, Plasma Uzi.)

If a weapon mod combo ends up being better than some of the master assemblies, then so what? You should feel even more attached, really. Considering it's not a Master Assembly, but instead -- a regular assembly that you've finely tweaked with the Exotic mods (Which, by the way, having two exotic assemblies on one gun should - by rights - make it better than most of the other master assemblies that only have one.)
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby ErrantMasa » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:09 pm

Tanksy wrote:Drone Launcher is glorious, but that's why it costs 10 rockets for a drone.


Yep, small price to pay for flanking fire in a can :rock: Hell, I almost exclusively use the alt-fire whenever I build one
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Princess Viscra Maelstrom » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:14 pm

i like the laser minigun. it has roughly 4 times the amount of ammo the high power minigun has and is close to perfectly accurate. the hp minigun might be "stronger", but bullets are almost nonexistent on later levels in harder mapsets, so you're eventually going to run out. and the super machinegun is a much better fit for a marine anyway (i always make hp minigun for renegade though).

the conqueror shotgun is also a really nice master assembly. much easier to make than megaton, and much more utility usage for renegade and technician. megaton is a bit too clunky in comparison, even though it is about twice as powerful, and for renegade, i find that a f-modded quad shotgun beats it in terms of damage output.

a demolition ammo uzi is also incredibly overpowered and can clear walls of enemies due to how obscene the damage output it.

but yeah, some of the master assemblies gets squashed due to little versatility in usage (biggest fucking gun is the most powerful gun in the game, but it's not as powerful it could be, for example. and the plasma cannon feels a bit wimpy, also). things are going to be balanced in the upcoming version, though, so i'm hoping that means more of the dead-weight items in the game feels more impactful.
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby 4thcharacter » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:26 pm

Biggest Fucking Gun is not as powerful? I dunno, I had a fun time with that beast because it heavily damages bosses and because of that it's a great crowd and boss killer in Colorful Hell. Even if it's slow, it doesn't matter if you know how to time yourself. Gibs and baddies, big and small dying everywhere. I was playing as a scout at that time too. Imagine if I made that as a tech.
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Princess Viscra Maelstrom » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:57 am

it pales in comparison to how things like the AMR is so much more useful than it, because it's much faster, has perfect accuracy, uses way less ammo per shot, uses a much more common rare mod spawn, isn't resisted by anything and pierces enemies. in contrast, the biggest fucking gun has a significant charge-up period, needs to be close to a boss for the most damage, uses an entire cellpack per shot (unless it's the nuclear variant, which takes ages to charge unless you're demolitionist, and demolitionist gets benefits from the AMR anyway), needs the rarer firestorm mods and a BFG to make it, i think is resisted by anything that uses plasma which means certain armageddon enemies are immune to it, and while it does pierce through enemies, it's the explosion you'd want to use on enemies anyway.

in short, it is the most powerful gun in the game, yes, but it's not very versatile compared to other guns, so it's a bit worse in that regard, especially compared to the effort required to make it.
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Machine-Reaper » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:21 am

The most powerful gun in the game is the Unmaker, fully powered, its railgun like fat lightning beams can kill rows upon rows of cyberdemons in seconds.

BGFG is more of time bomb like weapon, its hard to manage but effective compared to other BFGs and yes finding firestorm mods is hard.

Also what do you guys think about Suss gun?
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Tranthula » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:10 am

Suss gun I feel could make do with a smaller spread, but I find the gun pretty strong up-close. Coupled with Marine, it's good as is.
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby 4thcharacter » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:18 am

Machine-Reaper wrote:Also what do you guys think about Suss gun?


I usually ditch it because of it's random recoil and it fires projectiles to boot. Can't trust it being too random with a bunch of deadly hitscanners or enemies that can kill you after seconds of eye contact can we? And if you're playing against some group of tame hitscanners where's the fun in that? If it's sniper modded then it's kinda okay, that way it seems like a fat, drunk cousin of the Bulletstorm weapons.

You could feed it some Firestorm mod to alleviate the problem above but I think there are better uses for those things. Still, I can't deny that an Firestorm modded Suss Gun can be somewhat fun. It's more of a gimmick weapon for me.

Also, I like the faint soundbite of a guy saying "Suss Gun" once you bring it up, which reminds me... I've asked Yholl if he intended to be the pickup message to be "Suss Gun" only instead of "Picked up Suss Gun"
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Machine-Reaper » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:23 am

4thcharacter wrote:I like the faint soundbite of a guy saying "Suss Gun" once you bring it up,


the only reason why I like this gun,

its big, it shoots a lot everywhere, but harder to use then a Pistol...
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Princess Viscra Maelstrom » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:05 pm

it is pretty marvelous if you find one as a marine at the right time. it's terrifyingly powerful and doesn't have a clip, so you can just hold down fire and tear through everything. the recoil can be an issue, though if you have grappling boots, you're all set. it IS inaccurate though, but that's a small price to pay for the sheer amount of death the thing spews out (sniper mod helps with the projectile issue too, and it's not like the marine has much use for those things anyway...). it's also pretty good for other classes too, since Renegade and Scout doesn't have as much need for saving plasma ammo and their unique guns are pretty ammo conservative. i definitely find the Suss Gun to be a pretty useful unique.
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Trar » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:36 pm

The Suss Gun is from a PSX shooter called Forsaken. It's a good weapon and all but of all the games to reference I wonder why the weapon creator chose that one. Also, the pickup message for the Suss Gun in that game is simply "Suss Gun", so I imagine the message in DRLA was intentional.
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Yholl » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:09 am

Machine-Reaper wrote:The even bigger thing is that the MOST powerful rapid weapon in the game (Laser Minigun) seems completely useless
[ stares in immense disagreement ]

Kaeoschassis wrote:I remember Yholl saying the plasma infusion would require a sniper pack in future
ye. The only Master Assembly in 1.1 that doesn't need an exotic mod is the Ripper. And that's probably how I'll continue it.
Kaeoschassis wrote:I'd say it might be worth looking at making the master assembly applications more appealing, rather than nerfing the high-power minigun?
They reaaaaaaally don't need any buffs, Master Assemblies are amazing.

I do plan on massively expanding Master Assemblies in the future, but I don't ever want them to be the be-all-end all of weaponry. After all, you can't put a mod on a Master gnu, and a main part of the mod is modding your gnu, y'know?

Bubuche wrote:The bug : when you save and load, drone will ... shift. Like you can have evenly spaced drone, you save and load and boom, they are packed. I am not an expert in multiplayer, but I think that this is a sign of "deterministic behavior" breaking.
Sorry, can't do anything about that. That's an engine issue, not a mod issue.
Bubuche wrote:And, what I am not sure is a bug or not : the "Super Machinegun" consumes twice as much ammo when reloaded.
Intentional, it demolishes your ammo supply.

Princess Viscra Maelstrom wrote:megaton is a bit too clunky in comparison, even though it is about twice as powerful, and for renegade, i find that a f-modded quad shotgun beats it in terms of damage output.
I think I greatly improved the Megaton speed in 1.1. Should be much more fun.
Princess Viscra Maelstrom wrote:(biggest fucking gun is the most powerful gun in the game, but it's not as powerful it could be, for example. and the plasma cannon feels a bit wimpy, also)
brb buffing
also the Plasma Cannon is one of the best weapons in the game in 1.1, no need for me to touch that.
Ryan_Cordell massively improved it when The Great Prettying happened.

Trar wrote:The Suss Gun is from a PSX shooter called Forsaken. It's a good weapon and all but of all the games to reference I wonder why the weapon creator chose that one. Also, the pickup message for the Suss Gun in that game is simply "Suss Gun", so I imagine the message in DRLA was intentional.
ye
SUSS GUN

Can't hit the broad side of a barn from two meters
Will end anything it accidentally hits
Love it

...I am suddenly compelled to change the exotic mod effects to completely different things
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Machine-Reaper » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:07 am

Yholl wrote:ye
SUSS GUN

Can't hit the broad side of a barn from two meters
Will end anything it accidentally hits
Love it

...I am suddenly compelled to change the exotic mod effects to completely different things

Image
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby 4thcharacter » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:36 pm

Yholl wrote:The only Master Assembly in 1.1 that doesn't need an exotic mod is the Ripper. And that's probably how I'll continue it.



Versions beyond 1.1 won't have any master assembly that doesn't need any exotics? Didn't you said that there will be a high capacity blaster and that thing that pierces enemy defenses and those would not require exotics?
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby shadstarn » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:03 pm

how do we know when a new release is released ? i am new to zdlforum
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