DoomRL Arsenal - [1.1.2] [MP-B7.2]

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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby 4thcharacter » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:50 pm

Agree with the previous two posts.

Apart from their reasons, the corrupted soldiers replacing monsters can sort of break maps that use stealth monsters if you don't have the main DRLA loaded alongside the monsterpack. And it looks like the DRLA monsterpack wasn't just made solely for DoomRLA in mind.
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Bubuche » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:01 pm

Hello.

(this message DOES contains a SPOILER on a recipe)

I should've poster this long time ago, and maybe the bug has already been fixed.
The "uber giga shotgun" (i don't remember the name), the one with a recipe like "bapf", the one which take a basic black shotgun (assault shotgun, if i remember well) has a bug with the "P" mod : if you finish the crafting with it, you'll not be able the assemble the uber giga shotgun.
And I can give you the exact code involved in this bug, at least I will be able to give it to you tomorrow.
I can even give the "fix", it's not hard, it's just a mistake which is there because the recipe has been modified.
I just came here when i saw gzdoom 3.2.3, to see if this version was working with rla.
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby wildweasel » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:34 pm

Your report might not still apply to the current version, as assemblies have changed in a number of ways since 1.05. But to make sure, I'm gonna need to know exactly which recipe you're talking about - did you mean the Conqueror?
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Bubuche » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:59 pm

YES
I really think that's the name.
And to explain the bug :
when you add a mod on a weapon, you have tests like "if the weapon does NOT have a mod, jump to do-nothing state" and "if the weapon does have too much of a mod, jump to do-nothing state". The bug occurs because the list of tests for the "power" mod is not correct. The "jump if inventory" test list could be statically detected as bugged, if you understand what I mean. I'll be able to give code tomorrow, but i don't have the mod nor a software to explore it on this computer (i don't have internet at home, only during the evening where i am not "at home").
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Bubuche » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:19 pm

Ok, sorry for double post.
I just downloaded slade3 and the mod in 1.05.
I thought it was "powermod", but ... well, i found this in
DEC_POWE lump
in doomrl_arsenal_1.05.wad

at line 694/695

TNT1 A 0 A_JumpIfInventory("RLCombatShotgunBulkMod",1,"RLCombatShotgunModding")
TNT1 A 0 A_JumpIfInventory("RLCombatShotgunBulkMod",1,1)


I especially want to point the ",1," in the first line.
And the same ",1," in the second line.

Where every other places like that are ",2," and ",1," or ",3," and ",2,".
You got the idea. I am not sure it is THE bug. I think yes (and it's the lump for power mod, so it's maybe why i remembered the powermod involved in that... )

I hope it helps.
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Yholl » Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:26 am

Viscra Maelstrom wrote:stealth monsters being possessed classes feels like a cruel joke, though. i'd rather have the "PlzNoStealth" patch be integrated into the monster pack, and have stealth monsters being possessed classes being a separate addon.
but I like making you die

But yeah, it's not an issue, I replaced stealth monster stuff with a cvar with multiple options a fair while ago, so no worries there.

Bubuche wrote:I should've poster this long time ago, and maybe the bug has already been fixed.
It has. The Conqueror Shotgun has a different assembly combination in 1.1, and I actually already found and fixed this bug even before I did that. I will double check just to be absolutely sure, regardless.
Thanks for mentioning it though! A lot of stuff has changed since the last version, and the only way to make sure stuff got fixed is to bring it up, even if I constantly just say it's been fixed already, hehehehe.
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Machine-Reaper » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:06 am

A Minor report about a Certain weapon which can become more powerful then any other weapon.

A high-powered Minigun with Firestorm mod and Sniper mod can mow down enemies like paper and bosses hardly have a chance of surviving more then 70 bullets (needs citation).

Its more powerful then any other weapon I used in the entire game except for Unmaker at full power.
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Yholl » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:06 pm

Machine-Reaper wrote:high-powered Minigun
Yeah. I don't know what to do about it.

Any nerf I make to it, due to consistency, will affect every single High Power weapon. If I take off the damage randomization, it's no different from putting two Power mods on it, only it nuked it your magazine as well.
If I take off the base damage, then at the lowest randomization, it is no different from the gun it was made from. With a fast firing weapon, the average will still be noticeably higher. You'd still be sacrificing two mods, and a huge chunk of mag, to just have slightly higher random numbers.

If any of you have thoughts on this, please share them.
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Machine-Reaper » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:57 am

Yholl wrote:Any nerf I make to it, due to consistency, will affect every single High Power weapon. If I take off the damage randomization, it's no different from putting two Power mods on it, only it nuked it your magazine as well.
If I take off the base damage, then at the lowest randomization, it is no different from the gun it was made from. With a fast firing weapon, the average will still be noticeably higher. You'd still be sacrificing two mods, and a huge chunk of mag, to just have slightly higher random numbers.

If any of you have thoughts on this, please share them.


I used to think all of the weapons had special separate settings that you can edit anytime to make any specific weapon changes, either way yes it eats the magazine but not incase of the Marine class (I love Doomguy), The even bigger thing is that the MOST powerful rapid weapon in the game (Laser Minigun) seems completely useless with a massive delay in firing that can be hard to manage.
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Tanksy » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:31 am

Considering you've also bolted on a Firestorm and Sniper modpack, are you that surprised you're eating bosses for breakfast?
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Machine-Reaper » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:53 am

Tanksy wrote:Considering you've also bolted on a Firestorm and Sniper modpack, are you that surprised you're eating bosses for breakfast?


Yes, any other weapon can't be powered to such an extent that it can make anything for breakfast.
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Kaeoschassis » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:37 pm

Okay I think I'll weigh in here. The Laser Minigun is enormously easier to make than the weapon you're proposing, for a start, so I'd expect it to pale in comparison to something that requires two exotic mods. (Granted I believe I remember Yholl saying the plasma infusion would require a sniper pack in future, but still)

Moreover, the high-power minigun you're proposing will positively EAT ammo, there's no two ways about that. On a marine, absolutely, it'll be horrifying. On anybody else, not so much. Going back to the laser minigun you brought up again, if you're lucky enough to get a nuclear backpack, it'll have effectively infinite ammo - no such equivalent exists for a high power minigun.

I will agree that taking a good, high power weapon and strapping a couple exotic mods to it can sometimes be more effective than building an equivalent master assembly, and that is maybe a balance thing to be looked at, but frankly ANY case of taking an exotic weapon and strapping two exotic mods to it is going to give you something crazy good. And this is a mod with highly randomized loot. You may never even get those specific items (although miniguns are easier to find than some exotics, I'll admit).

If I had to suggest anything here, I'd say it might be worth looking at making the master assembly applications more appealing, rather than nerfing the high-power minigun? The laser minigun and super machinegun would both be equivalent options, off the top of my head - and I seem to be the only one on the entire forum who has any love for the latter of those, so perhaps it could use a boost?
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Funky Gnoll » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:58 pm

A laser shotgun wielded by a renegade or a technician is also super powerful, just perhaps not as easy to use as a minigun. I don't think HP minigun really needs that much attention
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Bubuche » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:46 pm

And the high power plasma rifle is also pretty powerfull, especially with the marine. But it's not a bad thing to have weapons better than others.
Spoiler:


I didn't find RLA 1.1, and they told me on discord it's not released yet. So I do bug report with the old version.

An other bug. But for this one, it's on a weapon i only met once. So I'll have to describe the weapon, I don't have its name.
The weapon use Missile ammunition. It shoots small drones which fly around you, in circle. When you press "fire" with any weapon (including fists) the shoot, like in a good old shmup game. They disappear when you change level. The weapon is green and consume more than one ammo when you use it. I think I was bomber when I used it, or something I don't play often (I mostly play marine, not the most powerfull class at all, but still one of the funniest) and it consumed 2 rocket per drone. I was playing the wad "JPCP". I also think (not sure) that the weapon didn't had a description.

This for the "situation". The bug : when you save and load, drone will ... shift. Like you can have evenly spaced drone, you save and load and boom, they are packed. I am not an expert in multiplayer, but I think that this is a sign of "deterministic behavior" breaking.

And, what I am not sure is a bug or not : the "Super Machinegun" consumes twice as much ammo when reloaded.

And if there is a better place to do bug report, just tell me :)
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Re: DoomRL Arsenal - [1.05] [MP-B6.2]

Postby Machine-Reaper » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:12 am

You are right, Master weapons should be made more....Masterish so that they can easily out class lower tier weapons.

I only consider these master weapons worth the salt, Zeus Cannon(Always), Mother in Law, Plasmacharge Launcher(Can damage monster thru walls), AM Sniper Rifle(True boss killer) and arguably Megaton Shotgun. all other weapons seem weird to use.

Also Drone Launcher is overkill by miles.
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