[Add-On] Extra Badass Monster Pack for Project MSX [v 1.7]

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VICE
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Re: [Add-On] Extra Badass Monster Pack for Project MSX [v 1.

Post by VICE »

I only did the decorate for the skull wizard, the sprites are by Ghastly_dragon, I believe.

Feel free to use the Widowmaker if you like - just keep in mind that it inherits some projectiles and effects from MSX monsters and items (revenant missiles, autocannon slugs, grenade explosions, possibly more), so you'll have to replace those with your own versions.
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MagSigmaX
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Re: [Add-On] Extra Badass Monster Pack for Project MSX [v 1.

Post by MagSigmaX »

Alright... After playing several maps with these new enemies this is my opinion of it...

I like the Plasma Grunt he has a nice recolor that makes him distinguishable, however his attacks do way too much damage.

I like the Stealth Grunt, for the most part, but something I did not like was the fact he can do a high damaging melee attack, the reason is mostly because of the unreleased background lore of Project MSX that only exists in my head right now, none of the human enemies have the same suit the player has, their melee attacks would never do that much damage.

Shock Trooper: He kinda seems too big to me. But other than that he is a good enemy, his minigun really can cream the player in seconds, but thankfully he is very slow and very noticeable.

Grenadier/Warden: Alright I have a major problem with these two. Reason: That freaking shield they have. When they raise it, they invulnerable... A Warden with their shield raised survived a level 3 power punch... and that's bullshit. A a Warden with its charge attack is unstoppable, I tried to shot him with the Nailshotgun with no effect, and they slow down the pace of the game to a sudden halt. The grenadier is more tolerable, due to the fact that their attacks are more easier to avoid. But the Warden just annoys me a lot. I think instead of making them invulnerable when they raise their shields, their damagefactor should change to make them highly resistant only to the hitscan weapons (honestly I don't know how to this, maybe giving them a special armor?)

Dark Cacodemon/Rapid FIre Revenant: They are ok. Nothing much to add.

Widowmaker: He is ok too. Although I like the way he shots those 3 seeking missiles upwards and how they start seeking the player afterwards.

Skull Wizard: Very powerful. I got my ass handed to them several times, but I think they are way too powerful for being just a Kabro replacement.


Overall I think this is a pretty good add-on for Project MSX, it needs a little more work, but I enjoyed fighting against those new enemies most of the times (except those annoying Wardens) Keep up the good work!
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-Ghost-
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Re: [Add-On] Extra Badass Monster Pack for Project MSX [v 1.

Post by -Ghost- »

Yeah, the Wizard feels like he should be a Hell Knight or Baron replacement or something. He's not that bad if you've got a nail shotgun or another powerful weapon, but a lot of levels aren't afraid to throw big groups of imps at you early in before you can get those guns.
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Valherran
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Re: [Add-On] Extra Badass Monster Pack for Project MSX [v 1.

Post by Valherran »

You would have hated that Warden more if you fought him before the nerf. lol

Only way I can dispatch him on a timely manner, is to whoop out that Raptor Shotgun and make him eat it when he ain't blocking. Though I do agree with your suggestion to nerf him again, he does slow the pace down quite a bit. That's on Megaherz though. heh
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Re: [Add-On] Extra Badass Monster Pack for Project MSX [v 1.

Post by Captain J »

Great Scott indeed, those monster's design is more beautifuler then i thought! i love MSX for this reason.
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VICE
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Re: [Add-On] Extra Badass Monster Pack for Project MSX [v 1.

Post by VICE »

Haha, so I just got back to playing after a long break, and having 'forgotten' the flow of combat, it turns out my mod makes the game ridiculously hard. I can't even play on UV anymore. :o
I'm going to do some rebalancing for the next update, particularly the spawns and the damage that some of these guys can do.
MagSigmaX wrote:I like the Plasma Grunt he has a nice recolor that makes him distinguishable, however his attacks do way too much damage.
He's meant to be deadlier than other grunts, but not excessively. I'll check this out.
Perhaps I'll make his attacks do only splash damage and no direct damage.
MagSigmaX wrote:none of the human enemies have the same suit the player has, their melee attacks would never do that much damage.
I didn't assume the grunts have suits, just that the stealth grunts are very well trained and know where to hit (and maybe they have a bayonet or some kind of striking attachment on their weapon).
Perhaps a slight nerf is in order, though. Half-a-shield bar can spell doom in some circumstances.
MagSigmaX wrote:Shock Trooper: He kinda seems too big to me. But other than that he is a good enemy, his minigun really can cream the player in seconds, but thankfully he is very slow and very noticeable.
Exactly what I was aiming for. He's supposed to be "the heavy" enemy you commonly see in video games (with the Grenadier and Warden representing other related "mini-minibosses").
MagSigmaX wrote:Grenadier/Warden: Alright I have a major problem with these two. Reason: That freaking shield they have. When they raise it, they invulnerable... A Warden with their shield raised survived a level 3 power punch... and that's bullshit. A a Warden with its charge attack is unstoppable, I tried to shot him with the Nailshotgun with no effect, and they slow down the pace of the game to a sudden halt. The grenadier is more tolerable, due to the fact that their attacks are more easier to avoid. But the Warden just annoys me a lot. I think instead of making them invulnerable when they raise their shields, their damagefactor should change to make them highly resistant only to the hitscan weapons (honestly I don't know how to this, maybe giving them a special armor?)
Well, they are meant to slow down the pace of combat a bit and breifly change it from having the player mowing down hordes of grunts to a duel between the player and a single badass grunt.
To that end, I think I made them spawn too often for that particular role (the warden in particular, esp. for maps with lot's of zombies, probably going to move him into a different spawn group altogether). What I'm going to do initially is make them rarer, but increase their health slightly.

Following your suggestion I will also look into giving them a finite amount of armor that activates when they guard and, once depleted, prevents them from attempting to block for a while, so that the player can brute-force them if they needed to, but still leaving strong well-timed attacks as the optimal means of defeating them.
Skull Wizard: Very powerful. I got my ass handed to them several times, but I think they are way too powerful for being just a Kabro replacement.
I think I'll scrap this guy for the next version. I don't particularly like the way combat against it takes place in closed spaces (in open areas with ledges etc. it's pretty fun, though).
Perhaps later once I've given it a unique sprite (I'm thinking black robes with techno glowy bits on the back, and a nasty mechanical eye) and rebalanced its behavior, I'll add it back as a Hellknight spawn variant.
Overall I think this is a pretty good add-on for Project MSX, it needs a little more work, but I enjoyed fighting against those new enemies most of the times (except those annoying Wardens) Keep up the good work!
Thanks. I'm glad that people seem to like it. I'll be adding more monsters slowly over time (but not as rapidly as I've done last month, I'm afraid).
Since you have all the unwritten Project MSX lore in your head, it would be nice to have your input from time to time, particulalry for the monsters in the to-do list.

For example, for the machinist and his drones, I was thinking of giving the player the ability to "reboot" disabled drones by supercharging them (like they might supercharge a fist), making them fight for the player until they are destroyed. What's your opinion on this mechanic?

I would also like to have some "heavy" weapons that the player can pick up (the Shock Trooper's minigun), and use for a while until it's depleted. It would essentially become like a brief vehicle segment where the player moves slowly due to the weight of the weapon, but has amazing firepower to compensate (switching weapons would cause the player to put the heavy weapon down instead of adding it to their inventory).
I had done something like this on an old version of Project MSX when I was just learning how to mod, and it was pretty fun to kill a heavy, grab his minigun and then walk into a room and mow down half-a-dozen barons with it.
I should make a video of that, I believe I still have the files for it.
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Re: [Add-On] Extra Badass Monster Pack for Project MSX [v 1.

Post by -Ghost- »

More items/weapons sounds good to me. I think limited armor would be good for the shield enemies, that way if you have a strong enough weapon you can just power through, but earlier encounters still require some tactics.

What other monster ideas are on the table right now?
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Re: [Add-On] Extra Badass Monster Pack for Project MSX [v 1.

Post by VICE »

-Ghost- wrote:What other monster ideas are on the table right now?
Check the "To-Do" spoiler in the first post of this thread.


Anyway, here's a basic proof-of-concept demo for how using a heavy weapon might look and feel like, if I were to implement it. The player can pick up a dead Shock Trooper's minigun and use it briefly.



Some notes:
The player has to 'use' (open key) the weapon on the ground to pick it up - it will not be picked up automatically.
The player slows down to about a third of his speed, and is unable to sprint.
Dodging with a heavy weapon in hand is possible, but consumes all stamina.
Switching away to a different weapon causes the player to drop the heavy weapon first.
Grenades will still be available, but it will take longer to use them with a heavy weapon in hand.
Melee attacks will result in the player throwing the heavy weapon forward instead of striking with it, crushing monsters in its way. The player will then switch to his fists.

(The minigun uses a hacked-up ammo indicator since I did not know how to modify the ACS-based hud at the time.)
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Re: [Add-On] Extra Badass Monster Pack for Project MSX

Post by VICE »

Version 1.5 is ready, with a new enemy - the berserker.
I will need your feedback on this guy, since I want him to be a rare "OH SHI-" kind of enemy, that you're supposed to run from when you first see him, but I don't want him to destroy the player too easily.
At any rate, if you encounter one, find some cover fast, and don't let him corner you.

Feedback re: the warden and grenadier would also be nice. They actually feel a little more difficult to kill now (for me at least), but combat itself should be less frustrating since they don't outright cancel your attacks anymore.

v 1.5 Changelog:
Spoiler:
The next enemy will be the machinist and his drones - lot's of DECORATE work waiting for me there.
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Valherran
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Re: [Add-On] Extra Badass Monster Pack for Project MSX [v 1.

Post by Valherran »

My feedback on the Berserker:

He's not too OP, but he isn't easy to kill either. Dodges like a meth addict on mushrooms, and that belt fed shotgun will turn you to Swiss cheese if you were unfortunate to aggro him at close range. Killing him at the very start of the game in a pistol fight is nearly impossible on the higher difficulties, you would have to pray that your charged punch hits him before you die if he is alert. The only things I think he could use as a fix, is maybe a slight wind-up time for that gun of his, and more spread so he can't riddle you from across the map (that's the Enforcer's job). It would make it more fair for the player and give time to react before taking a ton of damage in an instant since he dodges so much.
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Re: [Add-On] Extra Badass Monster Pack for Project MSX [v 1.

Post by Captain J »

lower the damages from his shotgun pellets, or slower the rate of fire maybe.

otherwise, thx for understood my words about berserker's sprite! i knew this day would be come! :D
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Re: [Add-On] Extra Badass Monster Pack for Project MSX [v 1.

Post by Mav3rick »

ok i did try and i must say... wtf!

that berserker is a human or a super robot? O.o for have a similiar look as the shock trooper this guys is sooooo damn annoying, geezzz too fast and i mean toooo fast :P, lol it become into a nightmare and lets face it, many of those guys will be on early levels and in close quarter, too deadly and more in those "surprice rooms" ;)

the warden is sooo annoying with the constant pushing and shield as the grenadier and now with more health and even having resistance to damage, making them more priority if you have time to kill them :P

to be honest nobody will miss the shield they have is very frustrating been on a fight with many enemies and those constantly making all go slow big time for those shields

eager to check the new content ;)
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Re: [Add-On] Extra Badass Monster Pack for Project MSX [v 1.

Post by Mav3rick »

well was checking and i must have to say....

"Shock Trooper"
health 180
Speed 16

"Berserker"
health 240
Speed 24

if both are heavy weapon enemies why is that the berserk move sooo damn fast and have too much health??

also the "warden" suffer from the same as the "berserker" too much health and he can bucher you if there is no space to maneuver :P

why no give the ability to destroy their shields? some damage and poof they lose it with out so much fight, giving more interation with they and no have to be waiting for they to lower it
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Re: [Add-On] Extra Badass Monster Pack for Project MSX [v 1.

Post by twinkieman93 »

Mav3rick wrote:why no give the ability to destroy their shields? some damage and poof they lose it with out so much fight, giving more interation with they and no have to be waiting for they to lower it
If I could do this to the Centaurs/Slaughtaurs in HeXen I'd like it even more than I already do. This is probably the best idea I've ever seen someone propose for any mod ever. Seriously. The best. Being able to just rip someone's shield out of their hands from the sheer force of the blow you deliver is a great, visceral, rewarding thing to do because suddenly what was once a man is now a boy, so to speak. Especially if it's coupled with the shield-using pansy panicking, maybe even with a voice clip of them going "Oh crap". That'd be awesome. Even if it just knocks the shield out of their hands without breaking it, and they end up scurrying to pick it up, that'd be awesome.
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Re: [Add-On] Extra Badass Monster Pack for Project MSX [v 1.

Post by Captain J »

then his walking to the sheild should be slow as hell, for make 'em real dead after closer to the sheild IMO. also he could be more swearing, rather then crap. 'shit' for an example.
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