BorderDooM: Doom + Borderlands gameplay (1.0 released!)

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Re: BorderDooM: Doom + Borderlands gameplay (1.0 released!)

Postby theroguemonk » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:11 pm

i do some spriting i do not do coding

i would love to help you make more gun variants also .. i want to say the starting pistol is too strong you must give the player hte worst gun to begin with.
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Re: BorderDooM: Doom + Borderlands gameplay (1.0 released!)

Postby Sunbeam » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:28 pm

gunofdis wrote:Neat mod so far but the recoil is absurd.

Either try to get a weapon with less recoil or wait until the next version, where I'll probably lower the recoil.

Mech wrote:I meant just the appearance of the gun. Though the weapon itself is still looks out of the blue to me, because imho if player gets surrounded it's their problem and their only, for modders can't just foresee all the combinations their mod will be played with.

Yes it looks a bit out of place. But you see you pointed out the problem: I tried to make the mod playable on as many maps as possible. But now only the players can tell if that was the right decision. ;)

Mech wrote:
Sunbeam wrote:I tested the mod with GZDoom 4.2.1 but also with 3.1.0.

Phew. :-D

It seems you're lucky. :D Have you tried it already?

Mech wrote:Site refused to accept my email and had to google the right answer for captcha. :bang:

I'm glad you made it. ;)
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Re: BorderDooM: Doom + Borderlands gameplay (1.0 released!)

Postby Mech » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:34 am

Sunbeam wrote:Have you tried it already?

Yep. And I can say now that it is not compatible with this: you can neither pick up a weapon nor even see its stats.
Few more things:
  • Why only 3 slots for weapons? Is it level-dependent?
  • How about elemental weapons?
  • Have you thought about adding other equipment: class mods, grenade mods(or at least just grenades) and relics?
  • I think punching would be better as some sort of "quick melee" than as separate "weapon".
  • I think I found a bug: equip a weapon (mag is empty), load it, unequip, weapon unloads itself so when you equip it again, you have to load it again too. Do this few times and you'll drain your whole ammo without making even a single shot. I doubt it's an intended behavior.
  • I'm a bit confused about the staff: the only stat it has is "souls". This is the lowest amount of souls needed to fire it once aka consumption rate, am I correct? If yes, then replacing it with a higher level one is just pointless, since the higher the staff's level the higher "soul" stat is.
P.S.: now that I see people also making feature requests I think you should make some "todo\wontdo" list.
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Re: BorderDooM: Doom + Borderlands gameplay (1.0 released!)

Postby theroguemonk » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:16 am

Mech wrote:
Sunbeam wrote:Have you tried it already?

Yep. And I can say now that it is not compatible with this: you can neither pick up a weapon nor even see its stats.
Few more things:
  • Why only 3 slots for weapons? Is it level-dependent?
  • How about elemental weapons?
  • Have you thought about adding other equipment: class mods, grenade mods(or at least just grenades) and relics?
  • I think punching would be better as some sort of "quick melee" than as separate "weapon".
  • I think I found a bug: equip a weapon (mag is empty), load it, unequip, weapon unloads itself so when you equip it again, you have to load it again too. Do this few times and you'll drain your whole ammo without making even a single shot. I doubt it's an intended behavior.
  • I'm a bit confused about the staff: the only stat it has is "souls". This is the lowest amount of souls needed to fire it once aka consumption rate, am I correct? If yes, then replacing it with a higher level one is just pointless, since the higher the staff's level the higher "soul" stat is.
P.S.: now that I see people also making feature requests I think you should make some "todo\wontdo" list.



again i am up for spriting for this one
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Re: BorderDooM: Doom + Borderlands gameplay (1.0 released!)

Postby Sunbeam » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:04 am

theroguemonk wrote:yes... its called tagart something it just scales enemy health depending on what you want...

also i sugest you putt the worst pistol at start and not the fastest and best which seemes like you have...

i have experience making sprites but i cant stand making enemies.... i can make weapons.. but no coding.

do you have discord? or any messaging system?

Thanks for the info. I seem to have missed your post the last time.
You start with an average pistol, not the best. Also I can't give the player the worst pistol because you need to be able to kill some enemies to get new weapons.
As I said I don't have Discord. But Twitter will work.

Mech wrote:Yep. And I can say now that it is not compatible with this: you can neither pick up a weapon nor even see its stats.

Thanks for the info. I will look into it - I might have an idea... :)
Mech wrote:Few more things:
  • Why only 3 slots for weapons? Is it level-dependent?
  • How about elemental weapons?
  • Have you thought about adding other equipment: class mods, grenade mods(or at least just grenades) and relics?
  • I think punching would be better as some sort of "quick melee" than as separate "weapon".
  • I think I found a bug: equip a weapon (mag is empty), load it, unequip, weapon unloads itself so when you equip it again, you have to load it again too. Do this few times and you'll drain your whole ammo without making even a single shot. I doubt it's an intended behavior.
  • I'm a bit confused about the staff: the only stat it has is "souls". This is the lowest amount of souls needed to fire it once aka consumption rate, am I correct? If yes, then replacing it with a higher level one is just pointless, since the higher the staff's level the higher "soul" stat is.

- I wanted it to be similar to Borderlands. There you start with only two weapon slots but go up to four in the course of the game. However I did not get around to implement this "increase" so I went with three.
- I thought about it but could not see a meaningful impact on the game. Different "armor classes" like in Borderlands (no armor -> fire, armored -> acid) don't seem to make much sense in the context of Doom, where probably all enemies would be the "unarmored" type.
- Yes I have! Grenades are on my future todo-list, but no promises there. :P
- I like the idea, but I would always keep the fists as a separate fallback weapon.
- Doesn't sound like intended behaviour. I will look into it. :)
- Yes, you're right! The "souls" are the required amount for one shot. But no, higher levels are not pointless. Using a lower level staff on higher level enemies will give you less energy than a staff of the same level as the monster or even a higher one. It really depends on the level difference between your staff and the enemy. Maybe this is a bit unclear in the game...
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Re: BorderDooM: Doom + Borderlands gameplay (1.0 released!)

Postby Mech » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:18 am

Sunbeam wrote:However I did not get around to implement this "increase" so I went with three

If you can't make slots number increase gradually, then better make it all 4 (or more - for every weapon class for the fun of it)from the start, considering you can get all weapon classes during the course of just one level. Because current limitation being equal 3 + low ammo pool with no ability to increase it = frantic digging through the inventory amidst the combat every minute or two. Slow weapon switching doesn't help either.
Sunbeam wrote:Different "armor classes" like in Borderlands (no armor -> fire, armored -> acid) don't seem to make much sense in the context of Doom, where probably all enemies would be the "unarmored" type.

Now that you explain it, they certainly would. But so what? What I was saying is that burning, electrocuting, corroding or freezing enemies is certainly more fun than just spraying them with bullets. Also you can make those weapons deal damage over time. Which would be very helpful.
Sunbeam wrote:I would always keep the fists as a separate fallback weapon.

Should have clarified it before. Say, picking the berserk powerup makes all the weapons just useless, because it makes you able to oneshot with alt attack just literally everything. I'm not saying it's bad, quite the opposite - it's a lifesaver when your weapon is not up to par with enemies. Probably you meant it as "high risk - high reward" mechanic, but then because of its power having fists as separate weapon in kinda pointless.
And once more about the staff. Rendering souls being drawn towards the player probably is not the best idea, because when there's a room choke full of demons, it'll make fps drop significantly. Souls also get stuck everywhere, and enemies walking like nothing happened when their souls in being drawn from them seems a bit weird to me :D And this type of reloading is painfully slow when fighting just one strong enemy. For these two reasons why don't replace it with autoregeneration?

Talking about to-do list: do you have shops there? Because, just like in Borderlands, 90% of loot is trash.
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Re: BorderDooM: Doom + Borderlands gameplay (1.0 released!)

Postby Sunbeam » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:15 am

Mech wrote:If you can't make slots number increase gradually, then better make it all 4

I'll probably end up doing this and then I'll see if I can get the upgrade system in later on. 👍

Mech wrote:Now that you explain it, they certainly would. But so what? What I was saying is that burning, electrocuting, corroding or freezing enemies is certainly more fun than just spraying them with bullets. Also you can make those weapons deal damage over time. Which would be very helpful.

I really like the idea. Not all "effect" types make sense, but some really would. Like "poisoning" an enemy or stunning them with electro damage. Tactical possibilities. :) I'll see what I can do.

Mech wrote:Should have clarified it before. Say, picking the berserk powerup makes all the weapons just useless, because it makes you able to oneshot with alt attack just literally everything. I'm not saying it's bad, quite the opposite - it's a lifesaver when your weapon is not up to par with enemies. Probably you meant it as "high risk - high reward" mechanic, but then because of its power having fists as separate weapon in kinda pointless.

Actually I don't see it that way. The berserked fist IS powerful, but you can NOT just charge into any fight. Shooting enemies are still a problem and need guns to be dealt with. But still I can see that a quick melee attack would be helpful.

Mech wrote:And once more about the staff. Rendering souls being drawn towards the player probably is not the best idea, because when there's a room choke full of demons, it'll make fps drop significantly. Souls also get stuck everywhere, and enemies walking like nothing happened when their souls in being drawn from them seems a bit weird to me :D And this type of reloading is painfully slow when fighting just one strong enemy. For these two reasons why don't replace it with autoregeneration?

Do you get FPS problems when using alt-fire? For me it never caused problems. Good point on the enemies not caring. 😄 Probably having killing enemies give you energy would be the best way to deal with this and not break balance.

Mech wrote:Talking about to-do list: do you have shops there? Because, just like in Borderlands, 90% of loot is trash.

Yes, shops are on the todo list. ;) But maybe... there are other ways to deal with this? (I have an idea ;) )

Also: Thanks for all the feedback! I really appreciate it. 😊
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Re: BorderDooM: Doom + Borderlands gameplay (1.0 released!)

Postby nakkemake » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:26 pm

For some reason soulstaff never works(primary fire not working and secondary never works) unless i summon it from console(but secondary attack). Otherwise 5/5 mod!
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Re: BorderDooM: Doom + Borderlands gameplay (1.0 released!)

Postby Mech » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:44 am

Sunbeam wrote:but you can NOT just charge into any fight

Though mod forces me to - by giving me weapons\shield 5-7 level behind from me and enemies. In Borderlands series this is alleviated by perks and action skills, but we don't have them here, right? Or are you planning to do something here too?

Sunbeam wrote:Do you get FPS problems when using alt-fire?

Yes, I do, because me PC is a potato.

Sunbeam wrote:Yes, shops are on the todo list. ;) But maybe... there are other ways to deal with this? (I have an idea ;) )

You're going to do some crafting like in Pre-sequel?

P.S.: I hope I'm not being annoying - I'm just a fan of the series. :D
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Re: BorderDooM: Doom + Borderlands gameplay (1.0 released!)

Postby Sunbeam » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:33 pm

nakkemake wrote:For some reason soulstaff never works(primary fire not working and secondary never works) unless i summon it from console(but secondary attack). Otherwise 5/5 mod!

The staff can only be fired once you collected enough energy for a shot. For this you have to use the secondary attack on nearby enemies. Did you do that? Which version of GZDoom are you using?

Mech wrote:Though mod forces me to - by giving me weapons\shield 5-7 level behind from me and enemies. In Borderlands series this is alleviated by perks and action skills, but we don't have them here, right? Or are you planning to do something here too?

Interesting. I never was that far behind with my equipment... At some point it might be necessary to exchange your current weapon with one from a current level, even if that one may not be great.

Mech wrote:Yes, I do, because me PC is a potato.

:(

Mech wrote:You're going to do some crafting like in Pre-sequel?

I have to admit that I only played Borderlands 1. 😬 But let's just say I have an idea. We'll see what comes out of it. ;)

Mech wrote:P.S.: I hope I'm not being annoying - I'm just a fan of the series. :D

No, instead you're quite helpful. 😊 I'm glad someone enjoys the mod and wants to see it improved!
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Re: BorderDooM: Doom + Borderlands gameplay (1.0 released!)

Postby Mech » Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:09 am

Interface needs to be, I don't know, stretched to fit numbers this big.
Spoiler:
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Re: BorderDooM: Doom + Borderlands gameplay (1.0 released!)

Postby sonoda » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:59 am

I hope to have DoomRL or legendoom compatibility, since both of them has similar concept.
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Re: BorderDooM: Doom + Borderlands gameplay (1.0 released!)

Postby Sunbeam » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:46 pm

Mech wrote:Interface needs to be, I don't know, stretched to fit numbers this big.
Spoiler:

Level 71? Nice 😉 Which mapset is that?
Yes, maybe I'll just make the inventory graphics bigger. Or I just display only the total damage of shotguns, since that's what most players will be looking for.
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Re: BorderDooM: Doom + Borderlands gameplay (1.0 released!)

Postby nakkemake » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:08 am

Oh how i would wish there to be a plasma rifle...
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Re: BorderDooM: Doom + Borderlands gameplay (1.0 released!)

Postby Mech » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:24 am

Sunbeam wrote:Level 71? Nice 😉 Which mapset is that?

This one is called Going Down. Some levels (especially towards the end) are bona fide slaughterfest, so I wouldn't advise that.
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