Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby DarkWarrior1995 » Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:43 pm

Vanille987 wrote:
WhamNinjaMolehill wrote:I decided to write out reference sheet for every class available in Wrath of Cronos; basically a document where you can quickly look up a class's skills, Paths, and starting stats. Figured it'd be useful to have around for those interested in the mod. You can read the reference sheet here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1V-K ... O-oF4/edit


I can confirm this is very useful :)

If you don't mind, I have a question I can't find an answer on, how do you join paths? Do you need to be at a certain level?


IIRC, you may select your path once you advance to around level 15 or so? Been awhile since I last played this though, so I could be remembering wrong.
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby zombie_ryushu » Sun May 15, 2022 12:08 am

Is there a Corvus Class for Wrath of Cronos?
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby Valherran » Sun May 15, 2022 12:23 am

zombie_ryushu wrote:Is there a Corvus Class for Wrath of Cronos?


No.
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby peewee_RotA » Sun May 15, 2022 6:14 am

Valherran wrote:
zombie_ryushu wrote:Is there a Corvus Class for Wrath of Cronos?


No.


When trying to add melee and rpg components to heretic, the thing I found is that the options for heretic is either add 8 new melee weapons to match the existing weapons and make them able to consume ammo, or else players will only use the original weapons. It's way too arcade-like. That's kind of the opposite problem. To bring corvus into hexen, you have to boil his weapons down to 4 and tie them to mana instead of ammo... OR find a clever way to place all of his weapons and ammo. Either approach is a fundamental change.

There's actually a lot of fundamental differences. Damage and health in hexen is about 3 times higher than heretic (mummy/golem has 80 hp, ettins have 175). BUT hexen tends to limit health at 300 and heretic has WAY TOO MANY tanks that don't seem fazed by attacks. Monsters in heretic bounce around when hit. Thrust and knockback in hexen is rare and balanced for the fighter's melee. Heretic levels try to drain your ammo and control what weapons you have going into a fight. Hexen tries to drain your mana in individual fights, and then gives you all of it back in the next room. Heretic also has levels that have secret weapon caches so you have different paths through the game with different weapons and ammo. Hexen gives you the weapons up front and expects you to have them in order.

Anyway, I don't know what the motivations are for the WOC, but I can say it's not a desirable task to undertake, it has only a small chance for fun for the player, and it has a huge chance of taking the fundamental gameplay of hexen and changing it in unwanted ways.
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby Vanille987 » Sun May 22, 2022 5:28 pm

I hope I'm doing this right posting here, but uuuuh, I think something broke with the ettin spawners in HUB4: dungeons? they just keep spawning to unreasonable degrees, I don't think they ever stop. I'm not sure if this mod is doing it or WoC broke something, but maybe people here have had something similar happen?


https://imgur.com/a/9d6e6ei
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby SallazarSpellcaster » Mon May 23, 2022 2:09 pm

Vanille987 wrote:I hope I'm doing this right posting here, but uuuuh, I think something broke with the ettin spawners in HUB4: dungeons? they just keep spawning to unreasonable degrees, I don't think they ever stop. I'm not sure if this mod is doing it or WoC broke something, but maybe people here have had something similar happen?


https://imgur.com/a/9d6e6ei



It's an old bug with WoC, for some reason they keep spawning ad infinitum; monster replacers in general seem to mess up the script on that map, as I've had it happen with other mods too. As for WoC, use it to farm experience - or to completely break your game!
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby Vanille987 » Mon May 23, 2022 2:32 pm

SallazarSpellcaster wrote:
Vanille987 wrote:I hope I'm doing this right posting here, but uuuuh, I think something broke with the ettin spawners in HUB4: dungeons? they just keep spawning to unreasonable degrees, I don't think they ever stop. I'm not sure if this mod is doing it or WoC broke something, but maybe people here have had something similar happen?


https://imgur.com/a/9d6e6ei



It's an old bug with WoC, for some reason they keep spawning ad infinitum; monster replacers in general seem to mess up the script on that map, as I've had it happen with other mods too. As for WoC, use it to farm experience - or to completely break your game!


I see, thanks! it's been awhile but I think even when I played this vanilla on GZdoom years back the spawners were kinda funky. Oh well, as long it's not some bug I made with breaking something or similar I'm good with it.
haha, I think I got 4 levels before I figured out they won't stop, got annoyed, and used noclip to confirm this. I think I will just cheat the level now and hope I won't have endless hordes like that in the later levels xD

Oh and kinda related, the gibbet level didn't have the headless yorick statue which you need to activate a teleporter, which I assume is another funky WoC bug. No biggie tho since I could noclip to the teleporter.
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby brick » Tue May 24, 2022 7:38 pm

Vanille987 wrote:I hope I'm doing this right posting here, but uuuuh, I think something broke with the ettin spawners in HUB4: dungeons? they just keep spawning to unreasonable degrees, I don't think they ever stop. I'm not sure if this mod is doing it or WoC broke something, but maybe people here have had something similar happen?
I can confirm at least that it's not WoC or any other mod causing this, last time this happened to me I was running Hexen 1.1 IWAD on GZDoom 4.7.1 without any mods, and it still happened. I didn't think of it much at the time but now I wonder if it's a GZDoom bug or something that was already there in vanilla.
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby Vanille987 » Wed May 25, 2022 2:00 pm

brick wrote:
Vanille987 wrote:I hope I'm doing this right posting here, but uuuuh, I think something broke with the ettin spawners in HUB4: dungeons? they just keep spawning to unreasonable degrees, I don't think they ever stop. I'm not sure if this mod is doing it or WoC broke something, but maybe people here have had something similar happen?
I can confirm at least that it's not WoC or any other mod causing this, last time this happened to me I was running Hexen 1.1 IWAD on GZDoom 4.7.1 without any mods, and it still happened. I didn't think of it much at the time but now I wonder if it's a GZDoom bug or something that was already there in vanilla.


Well now I was curious too so decided to fire up the GOG version (dosbox) and I noticed some weird things. First off all, on skill level 4 (didn't try 5 since I couldn't cheat my way to the level otherwise) there are no extra ettin spawns after pressing the switch enough time for the other switch to appear. One other thing I noticed is that in GZDoom you could keep hitting the initial switch infinite times but in DOSbox (so orginal version?) the switch stops working after pressing it enough times for the other switch to appear. So this does seem like a weird GZdoom bug!

Btw, if we continue talking about this I think it's better to move to another topic?
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby fakemai » Fri May 27, 2022 1:47 am

No it stays here because this is WoC-specific, and I suspect the monster replacing. Specifically, SpawnIDs for the monsters are assigned to randomspawners, so for ThingCount and similar in ACS they'll always return 0. This affects MAP25 (script 6 spawns more Ettins if there's less than 10) and MAP11 (Sacred Grove, instant victory in this mod). It also fatally breaks MAP23 (you get a flood of serpents but there's no way to meet the 3-alive count that was already prone to softlocking). I can confirm the scripting works correctly in Chocolate Doom. I also checked all 3 maps with Guncaster which also alters the enemies but the checking works there.

How it should be addressed here, I don't know, possibly giving the SpawnID to the basic enemy version instead? I can't imagine that would be any more broken than the current setup, but there may be exotic corner cases in some maps, and it would also mean ACS spawned are always the base version of an enemy.
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby peewee_RotA » Fri May 27, 2022 4:09 am

I think it would be worth putting out new versions of those maps, especially the boss fight in hub 4. Are the map sources GPL'd for hexen like they are for quake?

It should be possible to fix the whole hub, give it all different map numbers that don't collide with the base game or expansion, and then provide a new mapinfo (and zmapinfo).
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby fakemai » Fri May 27, 2022 6:31 am

This isn't a map-level issue. It's the mod breaking a basic assumption of map scripting that wants to check if you've killed enemies, one that's used multiple times in the vanilla maps and probably others. Also I was curious why it was spawning in lots of serpents in Gibbet, it's a combination of:
- The script gets called for specific Afrits dying and checks if all of said Afrits are dead, if so ThingSpawn, there's 4 spots with the same TID.
- They will always be dead because ThingCount is broken so it spawns them for each killed Afrit.
- Normally enemies trying to spawn on top of each other get spawn-denied, this does not apply to the RandomSpawner, I'm not actually sure on why that is.
A more hilarious example of this occurs in HexQuak5 early on past the emerald key door. The actual script is bogus trying 20 times to spawn things on 3 spawn points, again though, normally they'd be spawn-denied. I'll let the attachment speak to what happens for this.
EDIT: I did just try shifting the SpawnID over and that is more reliable, again with the downside of any ACS spawned monsters being only the standard-tier. I'll give it a proper playthrough tomorrow hopefully. Can someone with better knowledge of the ins-and-outs of Doom explain how (if) it works for inherited or replaced classes?
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Last edited by fakemai on Fri May 27, 2022 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby Vanille987 » Fri May 27, 2022 8:01 am

So with bricks saying it also happens in GZDoom as is I also tested that claim and ye, even without WoC they keep spawning (skill level 4). Though at least it seems they spawn less aggressively then with WoC installed.

https://imgur.com/a/iSQWsGT

(sorry can't seem to get embed to work)
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby fakemai » Tue May 31, 2022 11:37 am

No major issues noticed with what I changed. Sacred Grove worked correctly. Dungeons summoning was correct. Throne room, I actually got lucky with the AI director having 3 serpents roaming around so those walls lowered as soon as I entered, the Afrit serpent summoning doubled up due to one of them being a variant not counted but that is a minor issue unless you want to remove enemy variants entirely (NO THANK YOU), and it's a far improvement over guaranteed softlock. Also while standard ACS spawning is limited by that change it does not extend to the AI director, though that probably needs toning down and some type of protection against spawning things in walls because, yeesh, it gets pretty numbing having them that frequent, on top of making 100% nearly impossible. I'll be switching it off when I try the expansion, if I remember that has pretty relentless enemy spawning but that may just be the same issue with the thing counting.
Vanille987 wrote:So with bricks saying it also happens in GZDoom as is I also tested that claim and ye, even without WoC they keep spawning (skill level 4). Though at least it seems they spawn less aggressively then with WoC installed.

Even in Chocolate Hexen they spawn eternally, but it takes a break if there's 10 or more. ListACS + a list of some things is your friend.

EDIT: Lite version with the Heretic patch errors at startup unless you comment out most of DECALDEF's entries, I think it's all but the first three.
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