Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby Colerx » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:29 pm

yessss, those sprites for the assassin pleaseee
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby chickenwrap » Tue May 25, 2021 3:40 pm

Hi guys. I just made an account to give you guys some feedback. So first of all this mod is great! I'm having a lot of fun playing it. So thank you very much for making this!
Anyway here are some issues I noticed:

HUNTER
Hunter's wolf is pretty weak probably one of the weakest summons. Stat wise he's okay but he deals low damage, cannot fly and has no ranged attack so if you have lots of platforms or fliers poor guy can't do anything. With Survivalist he seems to be able to jump I think but still not good. Maybe wolf can eat on dead bodies around to restore health when not fighting or when low? Or maybe he should have some strength/constitution/health regen stat boosting howl for all players and himself to make him more useful? Or maybe a fear howl that makes enemies freeze up every 20 sec-1 min or so?

Tripwire Bomb is very difficult to get it working right. Perhaps a mine that detonates with splash damage when enemies are nearby would be simpler?

The weapon zoom function only works on the bow sharpshooter path. I think maybe it should work for Hunter on all weapons but way lower zoom, or maybe work on some weapons, maybe even work for some Assassin weapons too.

ASSASSIN
Assassin Clone seems to walk a lot instead of attacking. Seems to me like he is trying to go in melee range but can't so just walks around until he dies. Maybe he should only have a ranged attack so he's more consistent? Or maybe he should prefer ranged attack and only use melee as last resort if they are very close. Would also be nice if the clones were permanent pets and would not de-summon.

CLERIC
Summon Legend has similar issue to Assasin Clone wondering around but is much more useful actually and way stronger so when he hits he really hits. But I think he should not despawn and should remain a permanent friendly pet. Also he should probably be able to use the ability to pull enemies to him like Warrior does.

But yeah all in all is really fun!
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby chickenwrap » Tue May 25, 2021 6:23 pm

Also sorry for the double post but I noticed there are actually two versions of this mod floating around the interwebs.

There's this one here 3A then there is also 3.1.4 found on modDB and they have subtle differences.

For example Weapon 5 for Mage in 3A is JadeWand but in 3.1.4 is RubyWand and has additional sound effects but the functions are still named Jade for ex JadeShot, JadeDartTrail etc which seems to suggest 3.1.4 is newer version of 3A in that Jade was changed to Ruby but many references for the old name Jade still remain for the most part.

Also 3A scripts are compiled with ACS 5 but 3.1.4 are compiled with ACS 6 and are not inter-compatible and further suggests to me that 3.1.4 is a slightly newer than 3A.

There are many other things for example 3.1.4 has a number of DamageFactor added for summons which don't show up in 3A.

I cannot find any information as to who made 3.1.4 and why but it appears that 3.1.4 is newer than 3A but here's the odd thing moddb one was posted on August 16, 2019 but the last change here is November 28, 2019 which seems to suggest that 3A is newer. Which one should I use?
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby Exeor » Tue May 25, 2021 7:53 pm

Wrath of Cronos 3.1.4 is an interesting build indeed, since Tethis hasn't said a single word about that version (we don't even know if he worked on it officially being a unstable/semi-private version or if an user made this version using his own hotfixes and changes).

And if things weren't already strange, the other WoC files that contain the doom demons and the extra enemies were also updated removing some monsters that are accidentally cloned into v3A code like the Magma Chaos Serpent or the Draugr from Hell Forged mod, making it cleaner and optimized in the process.
3.1.4 version also fixed a visual bug where the Swamp Stalker Leader used the Ice variant sprites, so whoever made this version (if it wasn't done by Tethis) took a lot of trouble to improve it.
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby chickenwrap » Tue May 25, 2021 8:14 pm

Exeor wrote:Wrath of Cronos 3.1.4 is an interesting build indeed, since Tethis hasn't said a single word about that version (we don't even know if he worked on it officially being a unstable/semi-private version or if an user made this version using his own hotfixes and changes).

And if things weren't already strange, the other WoC files that contain the doom demons and the extra enemies were also updated removing some monsters that are accidentally cloned into v3A code like the Magma Chaos Serpent or the Draugr from Hell Forged mod, making it cleaner and optimized in the process.
3.1.4 version also fixed a visual bug where the Swamp Stalker Leader used the Ice variant sprites, so whoever made this version (if it wasn't done by Tethis) took a lot of trouble to improve it.


I have been using the one from moddb for a while now and got a lot of saves in progress. I wanted to know more about what attributes affect which weapons/skills for Hunter and Assassin (which are my favorite at the moment :) ) so decided to look though the pk3 with SLADE but I accidentally saved some garbage modifications so I thought oh oh I might have broken the mod lemme get a fresh copy just in case so I got 3A from here and my saves were no longer working saying saves have a newer version of ACS. Then I realized I was actually dealing with 2 different versions! Hahah

Anyway this is the info I gathered up and modified an older guide for WoC posted long time ago with some of the modified info + Assassin class details. Warning spoiler contains the entire .txt file. I added the Assassin weapon interactions with ghost enemies, Assassin level progression, what attributes affect what skills.

Spoiler:
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby Exeor » Fri May 28, 2021 9:11 am

There are some mistakes with the guide related to the health of many enemies, for example: Ettin Commanders have 400 hp instead of 500, Afrit Leaders have 100 instead of 160 or Slaughtaurs have 250 instead of 300. I have checked that both WoC 3.A and WoC 3.1.4 keep the same hp for several of those monsters.

Funny thing is, I increased the health of some enemies slightly in my mod, like Nitrogolems, Afrit Leaders and Slaughtaurs too, so they scale better with the level player :P
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby peewee_RotA » Fri May 28, 2021 12:04 pm

Exeor wrote:Funny thing is, I increased the health of some enemies slightly in my mod, like Nitrogolems, Afrit Leaders and Slaughtaurs too, so they scale better with the level player :P


WoC does a great job of spawning bigger monsters and sort of mini bosses. It is a really useful tool actually for scaling.

In my Hexen II mod Game of Tomes I iterated on this idea by adding respawn to the monsters to act as "wandering monsters". They get a randomized chance that they will be a type of miniboss. That chance goes up as the player levels up.

So what happens is that some monsters scale up, but most monsters do not. It helps a lot with the challenge level.

One thing to avoid like the plague is exact scaling to counteract levels. Meaning if your damage goes up by 50% and all monster health goes up by 50% then your player didn't gain any levels. You unmade your RPG.

There is a lot of game theology where this is justified because RPG elements are seen as nothing more than "artifically gating progress". I.e. if you have to grind to a higher level just to survive the first fight in the desert world, then they might as well have put a door with a key there. This is really shallow and actually does not translate to fast paced action RPGs. Look at Simon's Quest. Leveling helps you survive the next world, but it is still freaking hard. That has to do with scaling right.

Hexen makes an excellent game because most monsters have relatively low hitpoints. Monster 1 takes 3-4 punches. Monster 2 takes 3-5 punches. By the end of the game, the biggest monsters still only take 4-6 punches. They generally have the same HP. The challenge scales in completely different ways. So adding levels that lets you one-shot an ettin is useful even at the end of the game, and it doesn't change the challenge. For example, those reavers in the 2nd to last level could all be 1 shot kills and they'd still get plenty of projectile hits on you. The damage/health scale is a great progression for the player that still leaves the dynamics and challenges of the maps.

With that being said, occasionally fighting minibosses makes it fun, while dealing with the same dynamic of the regular mooks wandering around.

Anyway, I'm working on this modified wandering monster mechanic in HRPG at the moment and it will be a good practical example of how to help resolve this.
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby nakkemake » Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:56 am

Why does not the green mana, blue mana show as a sprite? I see only their light effect on the ground. Combined mana looks regular and shows ok as a sprite. Am I missing a option or whats wrong? :|
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Re: Wrath of Cronos RPG V3A

Postby Craneo » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:48 pm

Will we ever see a monster randomizer like the Doom version get added into other IWADs? I was thinking of Heretic specifically, as I want more monsters than just the base ones.
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