[v1.0.0] NecroDoom - Ye olde mech-suit mod.

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Re: [BETA] NecroDoom

Postby Captain Ventris » Thu May 31, 2012 9:03 pm

I literally just went and grabbed an armload of Megawads off of the Cacowards to play this with.

I don't do that. I actually rarely just sit down and play straight Doom levels, and I rarely even try out weapons packs or what not.

The Necrosuit makes me happy. The weapons all have weight, and they just FEEL good.

EDIT:

1. I am amused that this works almost perfectly with CQ (there are only a couple very minor visual things :P).

2. I...I would really like someone to make a widescreen-friendly version of the HUD, etc. :P
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Re: [BETA] NecroDoom

Postby amv2k9 » Thu May 31, 2012 9:38 pm

Captain Ventris wrote:2. I...I would really like someone to make a widescreen-friendly version of the HUD, etc. :P
This actually doesn't sound too hard to do. If noone else is doing one, I'll give it a try.
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Re: [BETA] NecroDoom

Postby Xaser » Thu May 31, 2012 10:07 pm

Go for it, I say! It'd help a bunch. :)
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Re: [BETA] NecroDoom

Postby Captain Ventris » Thu May 31, 2012 10:37 pm

The on-screen fuzzing effect is sweet, but, again, not widescreen compatible.

I much prefer the rocket pods now (I can't decide if I prefer the random and potentially very wide spread, or would opt for a more controlled pattern), and I like the DPS on the Laser and Chaingun now.

I keep finding myself jumping out and getting a new suit whenever I get low on health without health items nearby, but it's just too much fun to hear the suit blow up!
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Re: [BETA] NecroDoom

Postby Xaser » Thu May 31, 2012 10:57 pm

Captain Ventris wrote:The on-screen fuzzing effect is sweet, but, again, not widescreen compatible.

Bargh. The graphic is big enough but I didn't offset it far enough to the left. Fixified now (on my end at least). :P
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Re: [BETA] NecroDoom

Postby Zaero » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:38 am

Thanks for your reply Xaser:

This is actually something I've been wanting to do for a while, in the form of an inventory item that, when used, replaces the alt-fire fist with a quick shotgun blast

Personally I like the fist the way it is. What I meant was to have shotgun as a separate weapon.
I'd have to slow the fire-rate way down to make this viable, which I kinda don't want to do since there's already plenty of low-firerate, high-power weapons.

Well, it would be quite balanced anyway: H-V, Chaingun and Laser (3 fast weapons), Pod, Cannon, Launcher (3 strong, slow weapons). Add the shotgun to the list and you'll have total of 4 "fast" weapons.
There is some interesting aspect of 20 missiles launched in this pattern - that would be the only weapon with inverted damage radius, sinced damage absorbed in the middle would be lower than on the sides.
I'm using the same puffs for the weapons that Necrodome itself uses, and swapping them would actually further obscure the Cannon's purpose

Ok, let me explain. The shotgun puff looks more like explosion to me (flame shroom etc) the cannons puff looks like just some projectile breaking (visible particles also looks sort like pellets). Secondly the shotgun blast moves up after a while, so player easily can see where the projectile hit. You also asked about hitscan weapon deal 2x rocket damage - there reason is it is a "sniper type" weapon as you said. You see, Doom's rocket launcher was weaker but a lot faster. As far as I know all the sniper guns around the world are slow, but extremally powerful.
Then again, changing it too much might obsolete the Nuke weapon I've added for ST DM, since it does basically what you've described.

Never played ST, sorry.
I can't really add more on-foot weapons anyway because of how morphing works.

So when on-foot player is just morphed? Like a chicken in Heretic or pig from Hexen? That's funny. :D But I see your point. When I was talking about on-foot weapons I considered just a few, 4 maybe, but ok if it's impossible.
The decor wouldn't make sense in Doom maps

Most of it, but not all. I can clearly see the Techpillar, Lamps, Candelabra, Barrels replacements in the link I provided. Can post them separately if you want me to clarify.

Now to answer Rangaisia:
What purpose would that serve? H-V Gun, Chaingun and the always available metal fist already offer more than enough firepower for close encounters.

Isn't it obvious? For a long range combat :) You see, the shotgun in this mod clearly fire slugs not pellets (green shell, explosion-like puff) which makes the gun useful for accurate long range shooting. Maybe not as powerful as Cannon is, but should be much faster.
Why should be the fairly useful Missile Launcher replaced with a weapon that is either going to be completely overpowered or impractical?

Is BFG impractical? Overpowered for sure, but for some reason it's the most well known video game weapon of all time. Why? Probably becouse when player get tired of all this shotguns and machineguns, he can launch some badass thing and just watch the world burning.
That would probably cause a noticeable framerate drop. the Rocket Pod doesn't really have much in common with the SSG, and personally I don't see why it should.

Maybe but I'm not sure since it's just a bunch of sprites. Why it should act similar to SSG? Well, let's see. It has 20 launch slots total, what for? Let's guess:
1. To launch all 20 missiles at once (in this case it should be low damage projectiles to not overpower the weapon. The upper power limit? Matter of taste in fact, but I couldn't image lower nor higher dmg than SSG's pellet)
2. To launch just a few but very fast. This would make it a sort of Devastator weapon from Duke.
Why is one overscaled missile better than two fairly powerful ones? You seem to operate under the assumption that weapon replacements should be 1-on-1 replicas of whatever weapon they replace.

Let's invert the question: Why are 2 missiles flying so close, that they make almost one better than a single, but powerful one? To obscure the view more? You said 20 Pod missile would lower the framerate (and also obscure the vision I might add) but now you prefer 2 medium power missiles instead of 1 really strong? I don't get it. As for the asumption you've made - you're correct, I think those weapons should be 1 to 0.75-1.5 scale. The most important thing is WHY I think so. You see, this is still a Doom game. If you want the weapons to be balanced for the levels/enemies properly you either:
1. Keep the gun balance as close to the orginal as possible, or
2. Change the gameplay (like BD did): make enemies stronger/weaker, alter some pickups etc
But please take a note I'm not 100% purist - for me it's ok to have a sniper-like Cannon replacing a rocket launcher, or have H-V Guns instead of pistol, as long as it's balanced.
Being able to exit the Necrosuit is intended to be an emergency feature, so it would make little sense to arm your little guy to teeth. How would he fit all those guns in the cockpit anyway? Also, all the weapons are already replaced, so there's no room for new weapons, anyway.

That depends on their balance and amount. I think being able to carry a few (let's say 4) weapons on food would make no harm. It's not true that if all vanilla Doom got replaced there's no room for new (see Brutal Doom), all there is to do is just replace the pickups dropped by monsters (seriously - why they drop the ammo for a NecroSuit, when they carry infantry guns is beyond me.. :| ). But this would require to change morphing method to something else as Xaser noted.
I'd rather have lots of ammo for the Suit. That's another reason why on foot weaponry isn't that great of an idea.

And you think the first excludes the latter? Having more or less ammo is not only a matter of what's replaced but a matter of how much ammo player gets per pickup. Its absolutely possible to have tons of ammo for suit and some ammo for "on-foot" at the same time, with the method I described.
Again, that would only serve to cannibalize ammo from the Suit weapons.

Again, please read above.
You do realize that would make most maps look like shit, especially if they use custom decorations. Again, you could always make maps that use Necrodome textures and decor. I would love to try those too.

No, I do not. This is already explained for Xaser, and I can clarify which replacements I had in mind if asked.
Anyway, thanks for letting me make those changes myself. Do you really think I would ask Xaser for this if I could do it on my own? I wouldn't. And since its a thread about NecroDoom as far as I know, I think that's the mod to have such an improvements.
But you've made the good point Rangaisia: enemy/decor alternations, if done, should be in separate wad/pk3's.

Thank you guys for your opinions.
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Re: [BETA] NecroDoom

Postby Captain Ventris » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:27 am

To be clear, I like robo-fists as a concept, and this is no exception, but having some sort of ancillary shotgun attack would be kinda neat, however the heck you would implement that without replacing the fist. A new key would be clunky, I'd think. Just an idle thought, anyway. Maybe you could have an auxilliary shotgun power up when your HV gun is out of ammo? Maybe I love it too much, but I'm almost always low on ammo on that thing. It makes me happy for no clear reason. :P

Eh, I'm fine with having it pop up when you're on foot, but it just looks sooo cooool!
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Re: [BETA] NecroDoom

Postby Xaser » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:52 pm

Sorry, I should've clarified: The planned Shotgun attachment would exist as an inventory item you can use to equip/de-equip it (i.e. "toggle" it on and off). It'll replace the fist for Altfire when 'equipped', so the punch isn't going anywhere.
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Re: [BETA] NecroDoom

Postby Captain Ventris » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:30 pm

Oooooh I like that. You've got out the Rocket Launcher, see a lone shotgun guy up on a ledge, pop on your shotgun, blow him away, and go back to your regularly-scheduled crater-making in one breath. I like it.
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Re: [BETA] NecroDoom

Postby Rangaisia » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:41 pm

Zaero wrote:No, I do not. This is already explained for Xaser, and I can clarify which replacements I had in mind if asked.
Anyway, thanks for letting me make those changes myself. Do you really think I would ask Xaser for this if I could do it on my own? I wouldn't. And since its a thread about NecroDoom as far as I know, I think that's the mod to have such an improvements. But you've made the good point Rangaisia: enemy/decor alternations, if done, should be in separate wad/pk3's.


I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't suggesting that you could make a separate third party decoration pack, I was suggesting that you could make maps using Necrodome resources. You also did not take my point about custom decorations into account, as evident in your reply to Xaser. Sure, some Necrodome decorations might not look out of place in stock Doom maps. But what about maps that use their own replacements? What might be a sensible replacement for a techpillar might not be for, for example, a cactus.
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Re: [BETA] NecroDoom

Postby XutaWoo » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:40 pm

pffffft xaser mapping

You can expect results in the next millenium. Next century if he gets help. ;P
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Re: [BETA] NecroDoom

Postby Arch » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:32 am

Wow that trailer rocks!
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Re: [BETA] NecroDoom

Postby Captain Ventris » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:04 pm

Arch wrote:Wow that trailer rocks!

You should see the wad he made it for! ;)
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Re: [BETA] NecroDoom

Postby Zaero » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:56 pm

Rangaisia wrote:I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't suggesting that you could make a separate third party decoration pack, I was suggesting that you could make maps using Necrodome resources. You also did not take my point about custom decorations into account, as evident in your reply to Xaser. Sure, some Necrodome decorations might not look out of place in stock Doom maps. But what about maps that use their own replacements? What might be a sensible replacement for a techpillar might not be for, for example, a cactus.


Well a separate mappack would be great, but would require a lot more work than a "simple" decor replacement.
Anyway it would be hard for any mod to provide a replacements of any sort if maps themselves are already altered (as far as I know, there is no such a thing as cactus in Doom).
We can go futher and say that a mech mod like NecroDoom will not fit levels with altered textures of fantasy setting (borrowed from heretic etc).
But if the decor pack would be standalone wad, then a player can decide whatever to use it with some mapset, or not.
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Re: [BETA] NecroDoom

Postby DoomRater » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:49 pm

Here's something I'm not sure if it's been suggested, but... if we drop the runner's health some, like to 50, can he please heal when he gets back in the suit? It'd give me that Blaster Master feel, at least...
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