[WIP] Project MSX - Beta 2 (v0.2a) July 22, 2013 Update!

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Re: [WIP] Project MSX - Beta 2 (v0.2a) July 22, 2013 Update!

Postby -Ghost- » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:39 pm

Yeah, I'd be fine if the pickup was just an upgrade for the suit that gives you night vision or something. I wouldn't mind most of the powerups being converted to upgrades, since you don't really need things like a rad suit, berserk, etc.
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Re: [WIP] Project MSX - Beta 2 (v0.2a) July 22, 2013 Update!

Postby TheRailgunner » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:19 pm

Any way you could implement a "hold/press key to pickup" system for weapons? It would help emulate the feel of a "modern" FPS a little more - plus weapon pickup interrupts anything else you're doing, and can be the difference between life or death.
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Re: [WIP] Project MSX - Beta 2 (v0.2a) July 22, 2013 Update!

Postby DEDLI » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:16 am

TheRailgunner wrote:"hold/press key to pickup" system for weapons

Eh. When you have a chargeable fist and grenade, both of which can kill massive quantities of grunts at once (assuming you survive the common SVN build crash upon explosion) it'd be a pain to have to mash your use key, or even worse hold and release for a terribly long time, just to pick up a large sum of assault rifles when it is currently much easier to just quickly surf over all the ammo drops and get a move on.
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Re: [WIP] Project MSX - Beta 2 (v0.2a) July 22, 2013 Update!

Postby KingShinra » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:13 am

I just had a thought.

For the fists, perhaps the next release can have some form of kicking implemented? Punch-Kick combos? Jump kicks? Jump punches?

As for an "arm" blade...GREAT IDEA...but I cant see how using an arm blade would be different than the fist combos. NOW, instead...I was figuring...a sword.

The sword is weaker than the fist in damage, but you can rack up anywhere between a 6-10 hit combo, and the overall damage spread can make the sword a viable weapon when no ammo is present. You could also charge the actual sword in question, and unleash 3 seperate levels of an energy wave.

Just a thought.
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Re: [WIP] Project MSX - Beta 2 (v0.2a) July 22, 2013 Update!

Postby twinkieman93 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:12 am

Anyone else find it odd that people are saying that an actual melee weapon should be WEAKER than your bare hands? I was thinking this would be something more like the Arm Blade attachment for NecroDoom, as in it just adds lots of damage to your punches. In this it could also change how you attack, making it to where you swing your arm blade as opposed to simply punching; more damaging, but slower. It could also change how the charge attack works, so that instead of an explosion, the energy is concentrated into disintegrating a line of enemies in front of you. And, because one may be better in a particular situation over the other, you can hit altfire to switch back and forth between the two.
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Re: [WIP] Project MSX - Beta 2 (v0.2a) July 22, 2013 Update!

Postby Patriot1776 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:38 pm

Has anybody made a 'tutorial mode' mod for this that restores the stock DooM enemies, maybe with adjusted health appropriate to the weapons? I got the newest version to see if the learning curve issues that had turned me off to this mod had been addressed but I can see they haven't. This mod changes the gameplay so dang much, that newbie players to it (like me) NEED a tutorial mode to learn the new mechanics without getting butt-kicked so much by the replacement enemies they rage quit and wanna delete it!

Sorry about the rant, but that really is the MAJOR qualm I've always had against this mod. I know it's still a beta, but at this point, a 'tutorial mode' that makes it easy to learn the new gameplay mechanics without worrying about getting overwhelmed by the new enemies can't come soon enough, unless somebody has already made an add-on to this that does just that...
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Re: [WIP] Project MSX - Beta 2 (v0.2a) July 22, 2013 Update!

Postby twinkieman93 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:43 pm

Patriot1776 wrote:Has anybody made a 'tutorial mode' mod for this that restores the stock DooM enemies, maybe with adjusted health appropriate to the weapons? I got the newest version to see if the learning curve issues that had turned me off to this mod had been addressed but I can see they haven't. This mod changes the gameplay so dang much, that newbie players to it (like me) NEED a tutorial mode to learn the new mechanics without getting butt-kicked so much by the replacement enemies they rage quit and wanna delete it!

Sorry about the rant, but that really is the MAJOR qualm I've always had against this mod. I know it's still a beta, but at this point, a 'tutorial mode' that makes it easy to learn the new gameplay mechanics without worrying about getting overwhelmed by the new enemies can't come soon enough, unless somebody has already made an add-on to this that does just that...

I think someone else suggested there be a tutorial map... or maybe that was another mod, I forget. But yeah, I think for any mods that change the gameplay this radically, they need a tutorial or at least some sort of documentation.
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Re: [WIP] Project MSX - Beta 2 (v0.2a) July 22, 2013 Update!

Postby Patriot1776 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:03 pm

I'm back from being at dad's side, he's going to be okay overall, and so I'm looking for something easy to do for the community, and I may just start slapping together an add-on for this that 'dumbs down' and 'slows down' the enemies in this to make a sort of 'tutorial add-on' that lets you play at a more leisurely pace and get used to the new mechanics at your own pace instead of being forced to go expected full speed right from the start and so rage-quitting when you get overwhelmed inevitably. I just need ideas though. My first thoughts are literally just changing the speeds of various enemies and their projectiles to slow them down to being more like the vanilla monsters, but not sure what else beyond that.
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Re: [WIP] Project MSX - Beta 2 (v0.2a) July 22, 2013 Update!

Postby submerge » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:39 am

This mod is amazing, and I love it even in it's beta stage.

I installed GZDoom just to play it. Will there be a Zandronum compatible version later?
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Re: [WIP] Project MSX - Beta 2 (v0.2a) July 22, 2013 Update!

Postby twinkieman93 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:13 am

Patriot1776 wrote:I'm back from being at dad's side, he's going to be okay overall, and so I'm looking for something easy to do for the community, and I may just start slapping together an add-on for this that 'dumbs down' and 'slows down' the enemies in this to make a sort of 'tutorial add-on' that lets you play at a more leisurely pace and get used to the new mechanics at your own pace instead of being forced to go expected full speed right from the start and so rage-quitting when you get overwhelmed inevitably. I just need ideas though. My first thoughts are literally just changing the speeds of various enemies and their projectiles to slow them down to being more like the vanilla monsters, but not sure what else beyond that.

Ehhhh... I'm not sure putting in an "easy mode" is the correct approach. A tutorial map, accessible from the new game menu selection, would be the best option. For example, look at Cyberrunner. It changes a lot of aspects of how you move, and not all the controls are immediately apparent, even with a quick glance in the control setup. So, to get you familiar with the controls and give you a safe environment to test them in, you can play a tutorial map where there's consoles at every obstacle to tell you what you need to do to get past them.

I was thinking maybe something similar would work for this? You start with an obstacle course with signs that tell you how to get past the obstacles, for example a high jump, or a place where you hit a switch and a door opens on a timer, and you have to sprint to make it through. Simple stuff that teaches you the basics. Then it strings a bunch of obstacles together and you get to test your newfound knowledge against it. On the other end, there's a shooting range with paper targets and all of the guns, so you can test them at your leisure. Finally, you get into a sort of laboratory where an example of every enemy in the mod is kept in a big tube, and a description of each enemy with a listing of its stats and attacks. A thorough intro that's far more interesting than just reading a manual, or just playing through the game on easy mode, right?
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Re: [WIP] Project MSX - Beta 2 (v0.2a) July 22, 2013 Update!

Postby Patriot1776 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:19 pm

Yeah it is. Level-making though, I need a bit of help with. I've got I think neat ideas, but putting them together, I more need to first find some guidelines and pointers on the subject, and more just a basic sheet that more points in the logical phases to go through in constructing one.

Playing with this some more on level packs I know, I'm starting to better understand and get used to MSX here. Knowing better what I'm doing, its pretty darn neat!
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Re: [WIP] Project MSX - Beta 2 (v0.2a) July 22, 2013 Update!

Postby submerge » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:58 pm

After trying it a bit more extensively in Doom 1, Episode 3, Ultra-Violence difficutly, a few things cross my mind

1. The autoshotgun feels a hair weak, to the point that even the pistol feels a bit more powerful.
2. I'm not a fan of the Satyr Imp replacements. They'll keep, certainly, but I feel they don't fit in well with the other foes, especially since there are already barons and hell knights.
3. Neither the Cyberdemon or Spider Mastermind felt awfully threatening. They could use some tweaks, I think. The giant plasma cannon on Spider Mastermind was a nice touch, though.
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Re: [WIP] Project MSX - Beta 2 (v0.2a) July 22, 2013 Update!

Postby submerge » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:01 pm

TheRailgunner wrote:Any way you could implement a "hold/press key to pickup" system for weapons? It would help emulate the feel of a "modern" FPS a little more - plus weapon pickup interrupts anything else you're doing, and can be the difference between life or death.

That would only be important if the player only had 2 weapon slots. And he doesn't in this mod. And hopefully he never will have only 2 weapon slots. I HATE THAT in modern FPS games.
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Re: [WIP] Project MSX - Beta 2 (v0.2a) July 22, 2013 Update!

Postby TheRailgunner » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:41 pm

submerge wrote:1. The autoshotgun feels a hair weak, to the point that even the pistol feels a bit more powerful.
2. I'm not a fan of the Satyr Imp replacements. They'll keep, certainly, but I feel they don't fit in well with the other foes, especially since there are already barons and hell knights.


This. The autoshotgun is, for the most part, my last choice in weapon - it takes two shots to kill a Kabro, versus one melee - at any range where a shotgun would be useful, you might as well just bludgeon the creatures to death with it.

Furthermore, Kabros are absurdly fast, and deal a lot of damage in a very short space of time.

Also, amid all of the enemy replacements, there are no replacements for the Wolfenstein SS - it's such an unusual change of pace to get to level 31 after killing your way through legions of ultra-hard monsters to be faced with enemies that you can literally just melee your way through.
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Re: [WIP] Project MSX - Beta 2 (v0.2a) July 22, 2013 Update!

Postby -Ghost- » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:06 pm

I'm not really a fan of the autoshotgun myself, either. The power's okay, but it just feels/looks/sounds weak compared to a proper pump shotgun, I guess. So far it's been the only gun that I don't really like using and only use if I have to. Personally I'd say scrap it and make a new weapon or something, but that's just my opinion. It's definitely functional, just not very appealing ATM. The nail shotgun is definintely a pump shotgun done right, perfect blend of sound, model and damage for a weapon that's very satisfying to shoot.
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