The Mutiny Mod pilot release

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Re: The Mutiny Mod pilot release

Postby Matt » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:49 am

Perhaps rarely among gameplay mods, Mutiny actually makes maps harder. Although you'll have plenty of ammo, since the marines drop their guns when they die, and the enemies generally have less health (although the bigger robots have a lot of HP), the enemies move faster, hit harder, and many of them have hitscan attacks.

...and unlike Hideous Destructor it looks like you actually made some effort with regards to balancing. XD Pretty awesome mod.

Baron replacement seems a bit on the weak side though, while the mancubus replacements seem a bit high.

Bugs: Punching enemies just leave their arms extended during melee (you just hear their punch sound and get hurt but don't see them do anything); the medic plays the pistol sound when he punches; the plasma guys' deaths don't trigger the last script in map07. Ceiling turret also doesn't have sounds.

That said, I'm quite pleasantly surprised that a fastchase monster could be made into such a decent low-level mook like the officer. Fighting groups of them sometimes feels like a choreographed ninja fight. :D

Feature suggestion: Maybe you could make the GL fire a bit further than the hand grenades lob? It seems kinda odd to have a launcher for something you can do with your off hand (the characters are throwing with their hands right? ^^; )

Also, I think the commando might unintentionally(correct me if I'm wrong) be one of the best "buddy" monsters I've seen. They give you ample warning to get out of the way before they shoot, don't race ahead of you and into your line of fire, focus a lot of firepower on very specific targets, and the jolly fat dude act has just enough personality for me to think of them as something more than just some thing-that-also-happens-to-damage-enemies.
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Re: The Mutiny Mod pilot release

Postby Woolie Wool » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:31 am

I never thought of that before with the Commando. The Commando of course has his two-second fire delay and audible minigun spinup because he does several hundred points of damage per second. He was left out of replacing a Doom monster because levels usually have to be designed with that kind of enemy in mind to prevent unneccesary cheap deaths for the player.

The Elites (Baron replacements) don't have a whole lot of hitpoints, yes, but they do tons of damage and are difficult to hit. It takes at least three shotgun or two SSG shots to kill one.

As for the marine melee attacks, the graphics I use have only one punching frame. The original skin had two frames that were exactly identical.

I'll check out all these bugs, of course. I think the Dead Simple bug is related to spawn IDs or something.
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Re: The Mutiny Mod pilot release

Postby Enjay » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:49 am

Real life is just getting in the way for me ATM so I haven't had a chance to try this yet. However, I really like low hitpoint enemies with decent (but not excessive) firepower. ie, enemies that are human-like in their stats, backed up by tougher robot-like enemies (see my own Marine Assault and Overlord levels as evidence). So I reckon, when I get around to trying this, judging by other people's comments, I'll have fun with it. :D
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Re: The Mutiny Mod pilot release

Postby Unknown_Assassin » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:38 pm

This mod is pretty difficult.

The problems:
Marines can hear you use the knife and the fist.
BFGBall is blue, but the sprite on the BFG is green.
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Re: The Mutiny Mod pilot release

Postby Zenon » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:50 pm

Script error, "MAPINFO" line 1:
Bad syntax.
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Re: The Mutiny Mod pilot release

Postby Unknown_Assassin » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:56 pm

You didn't read the .txt file, did you?

You need at least an SVN version 563 or later for ZDoom to work.
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Re: The Mutiny Mod pilot release

Postby Zenon » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:59 pm

where do I get that?
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Re: The Mutiny Mod pilot release

Postby Unknown_Assassin » Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:02 pm

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Re: The Mutiny Mod pilot release

Postby Zenon » Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:12 pm

Thankies
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Re: The Mutiny Mod pilot release

Postby Woolie Wool » Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:10 pm

Unknown_Assassin wrote:This mod is pretty difficult.

The problems:
Marines can hear you use the knife and the fist.
BFGBall is blue, but the sprite on the BFG is green.

Ahhh...the BFG...

I had really forgotten about that. I usually pick the plasma rifle over the BFG for almost all battles, so I hardly see it. As for the fist and knife, that is standard Doom behavior and I really hadn't considered changing it. I'll probably get to that now. Thanks for reminding me.

Any comments about graphics, gameplay, etc.?
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Re: The Mutiny Mod pilot release

Postby bagheadspidey » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:57 pm

Woolie Wool wrote:Any comments about graphics, gameplay, etc.?

I've been playing this over the past few days with both doom 1 ep.1 and doom 2. This is really addictive and fun, but very hard even on 'veteran,' and, to me, almost ridiculously hard on 'hero' after the first few levels (of doom2, especially)... not that that is a bad thing. The levels of episode 1 seem to play especially well with this wad.

As far as the gameplay, it is definitely fun but the contrast between the behavior of the different enemies is a little strange. It seems a little weird that the officer can move so much faster than the other humans. It's fun to fight them though, so I don't care. Also, there seem to be a lot of hitscan weapons, which make some areas a little unfair.

As for graphics, those demon replacements need some kind of weapon (chainsaw? knife?) - edit:
Rocket marine is clearly holding a rifle and wearing a blaze orange hunting vest. Maybe he could get a rocket launcher sprite and, say, some green camos? also, maybe it would be cool to have the scepter replacement guy be fast and try to pounce at you or something? Ooooh or maybe replace one of the psycho marines with the dogs from wolf3d? ...or one of em could throw knives maybe (lobbed projectile) ... I dunno, just for a little variety...

edit - Is it possible to use the yaw of the player's view to lob grenades higher when looking up?

more edits - Minitank is much too powerful. It took"the crusher" 4 crushes to kill the tank. Also, getting hit does not seem to interrupt it from firing...

Hmm, that's all I've got for now. Fun wad WW, keep up the good work =)
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Re: The Mutiny Mod pilot release

Postby Woolie Wool » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:55 am

"Veteran" is UV equivalent. "Hero" makes you take 50% more damage, and "Killing Machine is totally insane (the Crusader II robot's melee attack can kill you on Killing Machine even if you have God Mode on).

The problem with the rocket launcher guy is that I have no replacement sprites. I am no artist, and putting new heads on the pistol and shotgun guys was about the best of my abilities in spriting.

And the psycho guys do have weapons--their hands :D. I do have chainsaw sprites, but I thought replacing the demon with chainsaw marine would be very unfair.

And yes, looking up allows you to throw grenades somewhat higher, though not much, as the grenades fall with gravity.
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Re: The Mutiny Mod pilot release

Postby Unknown_Assassin » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:31 pm

Any comments about graphics, gameplay, etc.?


Any map with chaingunguy replacements are a pain in the ass. If they hit you, you receive excessive damage.

In map 08. Boy, oh boy, is it insane. The location with the yellow key is a pain. The Cyberdemon can spot you, and when it fires rockets, it will hit the Baronofhell replacements. With monster fighting turned off, the Baronofhell replacements point towards you and start damaging you. Eventually, a chain reaction of wakened monsters will begin as each Baronofhell replacement gets hit.
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Re: The Mutiny Mod pilot release

Postby Matt » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:47 pm

Just a couple thoughts after playing this with RetroEp...

- On E1M4 I managed to get stuck at a point where you had to run across a large gap onto a platform but I was at 19 health and nothing lying around.

- If you make the medikit and the hand grenades weapons, you could get around the problem of keeping them between levels without any additional ACS.

- So, uh... any sorta plans to get the player to start with a ranged weapon of some sort? Seems kinda odd on such short notice the player has always managed to get a couple grenades but not a pistol...
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Re: The Mutiny Mod pilot release

Postby bagheadspidey » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:00 pm

Vaecrius wrote:- On E1M4 I managed to get stuck at a point where you had to run across a large gap onto a platform but I was at 19 health and nothing lying around.

I've been playing it with jumping (and crouching) enabled for this very reason. episode 1 is like an entirely different set of levels with jumping enabled, and is still very challening when playing Mutiny. It makes the maps less linear, with more "extra" stuff to get. Plus, it lets you get through areas that low health could otherwise stop you from reaching.
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